Stumbled across this thread just as I was in the process of trying to make a list around Quickdraw. This is what I ended up with:
PILOTS
“Quickdraw” (35)
Special Forces TIE (29), Rage (1), Electronic Baffle (1), Special Ops Training (0), Shield Upgrade (4)
“Omega Leader” (29)
TIE/fo Fighter (21), Comm Relay (3), Juke (2), Stealth Device (3)
Countess Ryad (36)
TIE Defender (34), Push the Limit (3), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Will hopefully be giving this a run out tomorrow sometime.
The main problem with the SF / FO / LN are the different turnarounds, the FO and LN can fly together somewhat well - but the combination pins formations to speed 4 k-turns and no sloops (till you break formation) The SF further eliminates most 3 turns, 1 turns, kturns, sloops and the 5 forward. It'll fly in formation on the approach - but really wants to break formation after the merge.
This is a good point that missed because I rarely fly any of my squads in formation. That will certainly effect things, but I think it works for the initial merge, when formation flying is the most telling.
Okay, this is a little hilarious:
"The Felons"
Scourge 17, Crack Shot 1 = 18
Mauler Mithel 17, Crack Shot 1 = 18
Youngster 15, Rage 1 = 16
Backstabber 16 = 16
Quickdraw 29, Crack Shot 1, Electronic Baffle 1 = 31
99
On full Rage-Out, you have up to 5 4-dice Focus/Reroll attacks, 3 of them with Crack Shot, with 1 3-dice attack. It's much more likely that some are outside of Range 1, but you're looking at 1-rounding a Ghost, even in sub-optimal situations.
Is it worth losing the initiative bid and Scourge (or Mithel) to put epsilon leader in the group? with Youngster's range requirement you're already in close - and now you're able to more easily deal with the double stress.
Can Youngster actualy give Quickdraw Rage??? I don't think Tie/SF counts as Tie Fighter.
Okay, this is a little hilarious:
"The Felons"
Scourge 17, Crack Shot 1 = 18
Mauler Mithel 17, Crack Shot 1 = 18
Youngster 15, Rage 1 = 16
Backstabber 16 = 16
Quickdraw 29, Crack Shot 1, Electronic Baffle 1 = 31
99
On full Rage-Out, you have up to 5 4-dice Focus/Reroll attacks, 3 of them with Crack Shot, with 1 3-dice attack. It's much more likely that some are outside of Range 1, but you're looking at 1-rounding a Ghost, even in sub-optimal situations.
Is it worth losing the initiative bid and Scourge (or Mithel) to put epsilon leader in the group? with Youngster's range requirement you're already in close - and now you're able to more easily deal with the double stress.
Can Youngster actualy give Quickdraw Rage??? I don't think Tie/SF counts as Tie Fighter.
"TIE"/sf "Fighter"
typecasting doesn't care about contiguity.
My understanding is that Youngster works, because "TIE/fo Fighter" works, so "TIE/sf Fighter" also works.
does Tie/sf Fighter contain the entirety of "Tie Fighter"?
yarp
I've been having some success running QuickDTF as en escort for TIE Bombers.
The duals are similar enough to keep her close by and drawing the crits off of Tomax actually does help him to deliver his ordinance.
I've been having some success running QuickDTF as en escort for TIE Bombers.
The duals are similar enough to keep her close by and drawing the crits off of Tomax actually does help him to deliver his ordinance.
Oh, I like that idea. It's an actual effective escort fighter that can intercept and kill threats to the bombers, as well as participate in the alpha strike. What's the rest of the list?
I've been having some success running QuickDTF as en escort for TIE Bombers.
The duals are similar enough to keep her close by and drawing the crits off of Tomax actually does help him to deliver his ordinance.
Oh, I like that idea. It's an actual effective escort fighter that can intercept and kill threats to the bombers, as well as participate in the alpha strike. What's the rest of the list?
Hmm, that does seem like a very nice escort. I usually like to have 3 bombers in my list, unless I'm running only Tomax, which in this case, QD could be a very nice addition.
I've been having some success running QuickDTF as en escort for TIE Bombers.
The duals are similar enough to keep her close by and drawing the crits off of Tomax actually does help him to deliver his ordinance.
Oh, I like that idea. It's an actual effective escort fighter that can intercept and kill threats to the bombers, as well as participate in the alpha strike. What's the rest of the list?
This is what I've been toying with, I ran both Quickdraw and Backdraft just to get a feel for them.
This is also my first run at bombers so open to suggestions to tweak the list. I've picked up a second bomber also to replace Backdraft.
TIE/sf Fighter: · "QuickDTF" (29)
Draw Their Fire (1)
Fire Control System (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
Sensor Cluster (2)
TIE/sf Fighter: · "Backdraft" (27)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire Control System (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
Sensor Cluster (2)
TIE Bomber: · Tomax Bren (24)
Crack Shot (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Guidance Chips (0)
-- TOTAL ------- 98/100p. --
does Tie/sf Fighter contain the entirety of "Tie Fighter"?
yarp
Does it? I don't have the stuff on me atm. Where does it say?
If this is the case, I think we should tell Geordan's Yet Another Builder to change the official name of the ship on the builder to include that tid bit.
does Tie/sf Fighter contain the entirety of "Tie Fighter"?
yarp
Does it? I don't have the stuff on me atm. Where does it say?
If this is the case, I think we should tell Geordan's Yet Another Builder to change the official name of the ship on the builder to include that tid bit.
does Tie/sf Fighter contain the entirety of "Tie Fighter"?
yarp
Does it? I don't have the stuff on me atm. Where does it say?
If this is the case, I think we should tell Geordan's Yet Another Builder to change the official name of the ship on the builder to include that tid bit.
Yes, despite the fact that the expansion pack title is "Special Forces TIE", which would not qualify it as a TIE Fighter, the ship type that's actually printed on the cards is "TIE/SF Fighter". So it's just as much a TIE Fighter for purposes of Youngster and Docking Clamps as the "TIE/FO Fighter".
The main problem with the SF / FO / LN are the different turnarounds, the FO and LN can fly together somewhat well - but the combination pins formations to speed 4 k-turns and no sloops (till you break formation) The SF further eliminates most 3 turns, 1 turns, kturns, sloops and the 5 forward. It'll fly in formation on the approach - but really wants to break formation after the merge.
This is a good point that missed because I rarely fly any of my squads in formation. That will certainly effect things, but I think it works for the initial merge, when formation flying is the most telling.
I suspect that this would make your original heavy offense jousting "The Felons" list better than the epsilon leader variant, although there are ways to keep the group together with odd dials - having the sloop followed by a 3 bank back into position - and the remaining k-turned fighters move the same distance back. It's likely easier to k-turn the group and have the SF do a straight move, keeping the tail in the fight, and then move slower or sloop on further turns - the rear arc makes that ship pretty effective at causing the k-turn game to lure the opponent into the middle of a group.
I suspect that this would make your original heavy offense jousting "The Felons" list better than the epsilon leader variant, although there are ways to keep the group together with odd dials - having the sloop followed by a 3 bank back into position - and the remaining k-turned fighters move the same distance back. It's likely easier to k-turn the group and have the SF do a straight move, keeping the tail in the fight, and then move slower or sloop on further turns - the rear arc makes that ship pretty effective at causing the k-turn game to lure the opponent into the middle of a group.The main problem with the SF / FO / LN are the different turnarounds, the FO and LN can fly together somewhat well - but the combination pins formations to speed 4 k-turns and no sloops (till you break formation) The SF further eliminates most 3 turns, 1 turns, kturns, sloops and the 5 forward. It'll fly in formation on the approach - but really wants to break formation after the merge.
This is a good point that missed because I rarely fly any of my squads in formation. That will certainly effect things, but I think it works for the initial merge, when formation flying is the most telling.
I have a bit of experience with quad Interceptor and quad Fang lists that I expect would fly similarly. The idea is that you spread and converge. It's difficult for an opposing squad to draw overlapping arcs on more than one ship so they can't make use of overkill.
Great post Bio, as usual. After some good table time with QD (mostly flying against her) one thing that I have noticed, that doesn't get talked about much, is the “Dengar effect” she has. There were many times that I didn't want to shoot her (even when she had only 1 shield left), because of the revenge shot, which would have typically been a better modified shot than the previous one. This alone made her survive to the mid/endgame WAY more than I thought she would. Also, unlike Dengar, when shot by a flanker, she can still throw the revenge shot(s) onto ship(s) in her arc(s) that she usually just PS9 shot, which deters their shots as well.
That all being said, the build I found to be most effective was simply (34pts) QD, Crackshot, FCS and Sensor Cluster (I think SC is optional if you could better use those 2 pts, didn't come into play very much, but did save a shield here and there). As we all know, Crackshot can be as good as Wes’ ability to get tokens off the table and combined with FCS it really sets her up for more brutality on shot 2.
I liked the self inflicted shield removal tricks, but she is just as powerful and will last longer without them. I was very underwhelmed when reading about this pilot/ship upon the announcements, but after some actual play I have seen the light. She can REALLY dish it out.
She really hates to go against swarms though...
Is it worth equipping QD with shield upgrade?
Great post Bio, as usual. After some good table time with QD (mostly flying against her) one thing that I have noticed, that doesn't get talked about much, is the “Dengar effect” she has. There were many times that I didn't want to shoot her (even when she had only 1 shield left), because of the revenge shot, which would have typically been a better modified shot than the previous one. This alone made her survive to the mid/endgame WAY more than I thought she would. Also, unlike Dengar, when shot by a flanker, she can still throw the revenge shot(s) onto ship(s) in her arc(s) that she usually just PS9 shot, which deters their shots as well.
That all being said, the build I found to be most effective was simply (34pts) QD, Crackshot, FCS and Sensor Cluster (I think SC is optional if you could better use those 2 pts, didn't come into play very much, but did save a shield here and there). As we all know, Crackshot can be as good as Wes’ ability to get tokens off the table and combined with FCS it really sets her up for more brutality on shot 2.
I liked the self inflicted shield removal tricks, but she is just as powerful and will last longer without them. I was very underwhelmed when reading about this pilot/ship upon the announcements, but after some actual play I have seen the light. She can REALLY dish it out.
She really hates to go against swarms though...
Thanks for the kind words. I agree with what you said about the "Dengar Effect", and I'll add that the situation where it's usually the worst for a ship, stuck in the middle of everyone, is where she can really do damage. If putting a shot into her triggers a Range 1 front and back arc, after her shot was a front and back arc, on top of the shots from the rest of your squad, things get pretty difficult for the opponent. The worst part almost is that if she's still alive at the end of it all, she's got a great chance of PS-killing something next turn.
Per Ravncat's question, I'm not sure about Shield Upgrade. It's a lot of points, points that could go into Quickdraw's wingmates, who should be doing everything they can to capitalize on her damage output. I'm interested in the probable "Lightened Frame", though. 6 HP can make a conditional extra AGI a decent investment if it's not too much.
Is it worth equipping QD with shield upgrade?
Personally I think it's sinking too much into her, when you fully expect her to die.
But I'm sure some would argue otherwise.
Great post Bio.
I'm planning to use QD not very aggresively. But i agree of your idea of E-Baffles giving her more flexibility with stress.
I ordered one SF, and i'm more tempted every day to get 2 of them right now...
Great post Bio.
I'm planning to use QD not very aggresively. But i agree of your idea of E-Baffles giving her more flexibility with stress.
I ordered one SF, and i'm more tempted every day to get 2 of them right now...
So far I've used her in squads where the front loaded damage is pretty important, but I do think there's a powerful potential Advanced Sensors build. With PTL and Mk2 Engines, you have great maneuverability options, but it's 36 points. The good thing is that you get a squirrely pre-maneuver barrel roll. It's a nice ability when you're in the thick of things, which is where Quickdraw seems to do best.
Really hoping lightened frame is something genuinely helpful on Quickdraw, I think flying her like a normal Tie with a brutal revenge ability is a great idea, but those 2 green Dice make close combat difficult/risky
Said it before but I will say it again, this right here is why I still come to these forums. Thank you for this excellent post, as someone with limited time to play this kind of analysis and breakdown is invaluable. Thank you for your efforts Bio, please keep these posts coming.
Said it before but I will say it again, this right here is why I still come to these forums. Thank you for this excellent post, as someone with limited time to play this kind of analysis and breakdown is invaluable. Thank you for your efforts Bio, please keep these posts coming.
Agree.
Even though i was going to buy a TIE/sf no matter what, the DOA posts depressed me a little.
But i'm happy that some players are finding a niche for this TIE. For my insecure playstyle i only miss the evade action, but a TIE with shields is something i'm liking more everyday,
So thanks again, Bio. 
For me it's not so much that it's DOA, it's that for its price point and role the Empire largely has better options.
I'm still finding it an interesting ship to fly though, enough so that I'm trading for a second one.
