I can read your posts just fine, whether they're pink or not! Don't give up what you love or what makes you you, Kyla!

~Phee~

Kyla might be great but I cannot read his/her comments without pressing 'quote' on every post, neither in the old style nor the new. And although I did comment on this a few times he/she is still using it so I have decided that I am going to miss out on whatever he/she posts.

Too bad because from what I did read it was often pretty useful...

Wow, now I feel as bad as I did when my daughter's chameleon died and instead of taking the time to discuss the ramifications of mortality with her I just got her a new chameleon before she came home.

*looks fondly at the colored font button as "the time of my life" plays in the background and sniffles* Good Bye beautiful pink font.

I didn't want to sound mean spirited...

However, don't feel you have to change because of my reading preferences! You should feel comfortable in how you express yourself here.

(There are other colors though! )

I can read your posts just fine, whether they're pink or not!

Some of us (apparently) have different eye sight...

I am an admitted chromatophile with eyes that are very sensitive to color differences, so YMMV significantly from mine.

But I wanted to support Kyla's choice to be different!

No one was unsupportive of her choice though,

No one was unsupportive of her choice though,

Presenting the background color button and the extra font-size.

Now, how about this? Does this work better for everyone?

"Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum."

Or alternatively, you could always write with black on lavender magenta. "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum."

That would work!

The lavender/magenta color is quite bright, and I think it works better as a highlight color on a black background than the other way around.

But either of those is better for me than the previous magenta on grey.

You're really going to want to account for how the Empire allowed one or more powerful Force Sensitives access to its most high-tech of high-tech, world-destroying battle stations. One would think that Darth Vader would have sensed him/her aboard.

The waters are fairly muddied with regards to Force Sensitives sensing one-another. No one on the Jedi Council sensed the Force within Palpatine, and Vader did not sense anything of the Force (to the viewer's knowledge) within Leia.

It all seems to be what is best for plot.

Like so many things ( too many? ) this is purely a matter of plot convenience / authorial convenience in the canon SW material. Of course, it's also possible that this is one of the many places in which Lucas was just writing as he went, and Leia and Luke weren't related at all in his mind at that point.

As Kaosoe says, allowing characters to use both sets of pips at once will change the balance of the game, and likely make the characters more powerful, as there’s no strain penalty for dipping into the ‘opposite’ side. But if you want a game without having to think about the morality of your actions, where Force-use is more potent and easier, then do so – providing you understand what you’re doing and discuss it with the players first so they are on-board with it.

Conceivably, that might make your game feel less like Star Wars and more like a super-hero game, but if that’s what you’re after, then go right ahead. There’s plenty of sci-fi genres where psionics do not have a moral imperative; Star Wars is actually quite unusual for the genre in offering one, which is why it feels more ‘science-fantasy’ than ‘science-fiction’.

We can offer gaming advice about how any changes might affect the balance of the system, but nobody has the right to say you’re having BadWrongFun, and the FFG Police won’t kick your door down and confiscate your books.

I think there are also ways to tweak the game so that "light side" and "dark side" leanings have more to do with motive and result, than with murky muddled notions of "emotions bad" (or, see the link in my sig).

Though Kyla's posts make my eyes bleed, I tend to always agree with her. Just use the mechanics (or don't if you prefer not to) and treat Light and Dark as a role-playing thing. There are a ton of heroes, from James Bond to Bruce Wayne to Frank Castle who would undeniably be 'Dark Side' in the SW system, but can still be heroes and aren't obliged to burn down orphanages for the Evuls.

Which to me is one of the biggest issues with the way canon SW approaches "good" and "evil" / light and dark -- "going dark side" is shown not so much with moral complexity or nuance, but rather as turning the character into a mustache-twirling puppy-kicker who does stuff "for the evuls".

To me, it matters WHY the PCs are going this route. If it's just to have more powerful characters who can use both sets of pips, that's Bad Thing. But if it's to explore the extremes of your personality equally, and explore the theme of a balanced morality, that's a Good Thing.

Indeed. Or for that matter a character who exercises moderation and eschews false dichotomies...

But srsly, yeah, it's an odd mix of Abrahamic good and evil, and the conflicting Eastern spirituality. It seemed to contradict itself all the time. I mean, the entire premise of the pre-sequels was that 'Jedi can't fall in love' - but everything prior and after that show Jedi falling in love and raising normal families just dandy.

One of the main reasons we rewrote everything was to make our world more internally consistent. We gave a lot of thought to how each of our Factions acted in terms of morality, social considerations and behaviour.

See link in my sig...

Kyla's post made me remember a thought experiment I had a while back regarding the Force and morality, curious to see what other people think.

A Jedi is meditating in the temple when he has a horrible realization: "To give into emotions is the Dark Side, but heinous deeds can be, and often ARE, committed without the slightest bit of passion or hatred. Can one call upon the Light to do such terrible acts?" The more he thinks about it, the more disturbed he becomes until he decides there is only one way to find out. He gets up, walks outside, and clears his mind of emotion.

Then, when he is calm and at peace, he uses the Force to pick up a speeder truck and drop it on a crowd full of innocent civilians.

He does this without malice or hatred, passion or fear, anger or love. The most that he feels is a vague hope that he won't be able to, that's he's not about to become a mass murderer. Going by what we know of the Force, he SHOULD be able to draw on the Light, and (being calm) the dark side would elude him. So the question becomes: what happens? Does it work? Why or why not? Was it somehow the Dark Side anyways, even if it was completely passionless and selfless? Why?

And furthermore, another Force user might be walking by, and in an instant of fear or anger, react by using the force to shove the speeder so that some of those people are saved from being crushed.

I have had lengthy debates in the past with those who would, in all earnest seriousness, insist that the speeder-dropper would "of course" not slip at all toward the dark side, while the speeder-shover would "of course" seriously slip toward the dark side. Furthermore, they would have stated that the "light side" action was Good, and the "dark side" action was Bad.

I view this often-espoused "force morality" as a classic example of "blue and orange morality".

I did indeed read your essay some time ago, Max, and agree wholeheartedly.

We redesigned the entire morality system, with the aims of :

a) minimising book-keeping in a narrative game

b) keeping the action flowing without endless micromanaging and alignment arguments

c) incorporating a more 'zen' feel, that everyone has a Light and Dark side, and both could be strengths or weaknesses

d) better representing the instant 'fall' or 'rise' and forgiveness that happens in the books and movies when it doesn't seem to be an incremental thing at all

I think we did that, and while it's not for everyone, it's made for a deeply personal game. Each Sensitive in our game gets to explore their personality, their relationship to the Force and the concepts of their morality. And blessedly, rules are simple and kept to a minimum. Dark and Light, Luck and Misfortune, Destiny and free will, are always in motion.

I did indeed read your essay some time ago, Max, and agree wholeheartedly.

We redesigned the entire morality system, with the aims of :

a) minimising book-keeping in a narrative game

b) keeping the action flowing without endless micromanaging and alignment arguments

c) incorporating a more 'zen' feel, that everyone has a Light and Dark side, and both could be strengths or weaknesses

d) better representing the instant 'fall' or 'rise' and forgiveness that happens in the books and movies when it doesn't seem to be an incremental thing at all

I think we did that, and while it's not for everyone, it's made for a deeply personal game. Each Sensitive in our game gets to explore their personality, their relationship to the Force and the concepts of their morality. And blessedly, rules are simple and kept to a minimum. Dark and Light, Luck and Misfortune, Destiny and free will, are always in motion.

(As an aside, if the "read sig link" comment off as snippy on my part, it wasn't intended that way... posting while trying to get reporting functions to work correctly at work.)

Leia and Luke weren't related at all in his mind at that point.

George Lucas lived and wrote in the moment. Things changed, to put it mildly.

Our Lucas Lars and Leia Organa are neither related to Anakin or each other (and he's 20 years her senior), but if they were, I'd absolutely make them lovers.

Because, y'know, 'MarcyVerse'.

(As an aside, if the "read sig link" comment off as snippy on my part, it wasn't intended that way... posting while trying to get reporting functions to work correctly at work.)

Oh, I know

I'm agreeing with you!

I can read your posts just fine, whether they're pink or not! Don't give up what you love or what makes you you, Kyla!

~Phee~

Seconded. My eyes will recover, I'm sure! I was only teasing

O.o

Wait ... where is the "Change background color" button? That would be TWO times the pretty color buttons!

Leia and Luke weren't related at all in his mind at that point.

George Lucas lived and wrote in the moment. Things changed, to put it mildly.

Which frankly drives me bonkers.

That "just write whatever's the coolest biggest awesomest thing to put on the screen right now" attitude, that "well my personal feelings about stuff have changed" approach, that disregard for internal consistency and continuity is one of the reasons the PT seems so disjointed from the OT.

And as for philosophies behind "The Jedi Way" I think a really cool thing about them is that the major Jedi characters are representations of the different philosophies! Though they all have elements of all the core beliefs, each of them shows an obvious tendency;

Yoda - Represents Buddhism - Yoda is the definition of "Dispassionate Compassion" at the core of the Buddhist belief. He is less prone to Taoist behavior, never acting in the series, but only reacting to events around him that suspend harmony, and his warnings about the Prophecy show his lack of belief in evolving the world as well, and thus distance him from Zoroastrianism.

Qui-Gon Jinn - Represents Taoism - Taoism believes that being in harmony, and maintaining a balance between active and passive impulses is the way to achieve enlightenment. His tendency to take action and directly interact with the world distances him from the Buddhist ideals, and his scoffing at the concept of "righteousness" by maintaining the belief in doing what he must distances him from Zoroastrianism.

Obi-Wan Kenobi - Represents Zoroastrianism - Zoroastrianism views the world as meant to evolve to perfection according to the law or plan of Asha, the divine order of things. The law of Asha is the principle of righteousness or “rightness” by which all things are exactly what they should be. Their most basic prayer: “Righteousness is the highest virtue. Happiness to him who is righteous for the sake of righteousness.” His willingness to leap headlong into things and take an active role in the world around him distances him from Buddhism, but his focal point in the fight between good and evil separates him from Taoism as well.

Anakin - Represent Chivalry - From the beginning, Loyalty, Honor, and Courtly Love govern the growth and fall of Anakin Skywalker. His focus on battle, his commitment to the Clones around him, and the fact that the healthiest part of his relationship with his mentor came during the waging of Knightly battle show him to be the representative of Chivalry. His inability to be unattached shows his distance to Buddhism, and though he reflects Qui-Gon's ideals of doing what he must, his inability to abstain from action when required shows his distance from Taoism. Finally, his commitment to the ideal of Loyalty takes precedence repeatedly over his own righteousness, showing his distance from Zoroastrianism.

Whether this was intentional or not, I can't be sure, but with all the rest of the subtle groundwork that Lucas put into things, I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

And as for philosophies behind "The Jedi Way" I think a really cool thing about them is that the major Jedi characters are representations of the different philosophies! Though they all have elements of all the core beliefs, each of them shows an obvious tendency;

Yoda - Represents Buddhism - Yoda is the definition of "Dispassionate Compassion" at the core of the Buddhist belief. He is less prone to Taoist behavior, never acting in the series, but only reacting to events around him that suspend harmony, and his warnings about the Prophecy show his lack of belief in evolving the world as well, and thus distance him from Zoroastrianism.

Qui-Gon Jinn - Represents Taoism - Taoism believes that being in harmony, and maintaining a balance between active and passive impulses is the way to achieve enlightenment. His tendency to take action and directly interact with the world distances him from the Buddhist ideals, and his scoffing at the concept of "righteousness" by maintaining the belief in doing what he must distances him from Zoroastrianism.

Obi-Wan Kenobi - Represents Zoroastrianism - Zoroastrianism views the world as meant to evolve to perfection according to the law or plan of Asha, the divine order of things. The law of Asha is the principle of righteousness or “rightness” by which all things are exactly what they should be. Their most basic prayer: “Righteousness is the highest virtue. Happiness to him who is righteous for the sake of righteousness.” His willingness to leap headlong into things and take an active role in the world around him distances him from Buddhism, but his focal point in the fight between good and evil separates him from Taoism as well.

Anakin - Represent Chivalry - From the beginning, Loyalty, Honor, and Courtly Love govern the growth and fall of Anakin Skywalker. His focus on battle, his commitment to the Clones around him, and the fact that the healthiest part of his relationship with his mentor came during the waging of Knightly battle show him to be the representative of Chivalry. His inability to be unattached shows his distance to Buddhism, and though he reflects Qui-Gon's ideals of doing what he must, his inability to abstain from action when required shows his distance from Taoism. Finally, his commitment to the ideal of Loyalty takes precedence repeatedly over his own righteousness, showing his distance from Zoroastrianism.

Whether this was intentional or not, I can't be sure, but with all the rest of the subtle groundwork that Lucas put into things, I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

Honestly, that's a great analysis, but I think you've just put 100 times more thought than Lucas ever did into that character-to-philosophy mapping.

EDIT: I know I come off as really bitter and critical of Lucas and some aspects of Star Wars, but it's not out of hate, it's out of all the times that the details of the setting have been revealed and IMO not lived up to what I had imagined what they might be. The "prequel era" history we were shown was such a let-down after the history I had imaged based on all the implications and hints in the OT movies and the WEG RPG material.

Leia and Luke weren't related at all in his mind at that point.

George Lucas lived and wrote in the moment. Things changed, to put it mildly.

Which frankly drives me bonkers.

That "just write whatever's the coolest biggest awesomest thing to put on the screen right now" attitude, that "well my personal feelings about stuff have changed" approach, that disregard for internal consistency and continuity is one of the reasons the PT seems so disjointed from the OT.

And the main reason the MarcyVerse even exists

Oh, the MarcyVerse. So, so awesome !

Leia and Luke weren't related at all in his mind at that point.

George Lucas lived and wrote in the moment. Things changed, to put it mildly.

Which frankly drives me bonkers.

That "just write whatever's the coolest biggest awesomest thing to put on the screen right now" attitude, that "well my personal feelings about stuff have changed" approach, that disregard for internal consistency and continuity is one of the reasons the PT seems so disjointed from the OT.

And the main reason the MarcyVerse even exists

Is there a place where an interested individual might be able to find this MarcyVerse posted in more detail?

I think we need to accept that Lucas wrote SW primarily as a cool science-fantasy adventure for young adults.

He certainly put MUCH more thought into things than most did, but it's clear that his cod-philosophy won't stand up to intense scrutiny. Nor need it do so, in a kid's film.

Also, Lucas made films for the moment and had very little interest in world building. So stuff like Luke/Leia's relationship, hyperspace and midichondriawhatsists were created as he needed them and subsequently discarded.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Asspull

Trust me; Lucas has no idea even today what the words 'rodian' or 'twi'lek' mean.

And of course, his mythos was subsequently added to and changed by millions of other people in the decades since, and used as the core of a merciless marketing machine. Which is why we get Force Awakens, a film literally written by focus groups and test audiences.

When I came back to Star Wars after a decade of self-exile after the atrocity of the last pre-sequel, I wasn't arrogant enough to think I could do it 'better'. I wasn't ever thinking that.

My aim was simple; how do we need to change this material to make a modern, adult-orientated role-playing campaign that is internally consistent as far as possible? One that draws its moral cues and tonal motifs from games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect? So we went in with an open mind - there was no intention to slay specific Sacred Cows, but neither would we be afraid of culling them either. (Heck, midichondriawhatsits actually made the cut! Albeit in a vastly different form...)

Together, we decided we needed moral greys, non-binary factions, consistently-drawn behaviours and spirituality, and an emphasis on the PCs over NPCs.

I think we did that. Those aims were different to those of Lucas, who was trying to tell a different story to a different audience. And different to Disney, who's aim is to promote their product and shift merchandise. In that, we likely all feel we succeeded in our goals.

Star Wars is a broad church. If people want 'grey jedi'. then they can have them. The beauty of RPGs is that nobody but your table can tell you how to play your games of 'Let's Pretend'.

Is there a place where an interested individual might be able to find this MarcyVerse posted in more detail?

Ugh, there should be. I took to posting snippets of it underneath the (ludicrously over-sexualised) artworks the group had done.

But that honestly feels counter-productive at this point.

But I seriously should think of somewhere more appropriate to put all this stuff.

I think, above all, I'd encourage other people to make their own MaxVerse or KylaVerse (it would be awesomely pink!). It feels awesome. But feel free to liberally steal from my stuff too