Phantoms and Ghosts (Won't Be Out This Month) - Steel Squadron October

By BiggsIRL, in Star Wars: Armada

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Like today and now would be a very good time to poke your head in.

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I'll clarify that I don't think every single thing in the game is competitive. I'm looking at you Point Defense Re-Route. I'm also more than happy to concede there are some upgrades that are meta defining. Dealing with Demolisher, for example, requires forethought. I just don't dismiss large swaths of upgrades simply because they're outside the current meta, nor do I think taking the OP hotness is required to win.

Ok we are in fact totally on the same line.

The origin of the debate was this sentence:

I understand these kind of rankings can be helpful to new players, but I can't help feeling it's WRONG to make them. Luckily this game is - for the most part - not about "tiers"

Of course the fact that there is a meta doesn't exclude your ability to innovate, but in order to innovate you have to know the current meta in order to find possible counters and this precisely why such list are important especially for competitive players.

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I had a feeling we might be on the same page. It only took 2 pages for us to realize it =)

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*slow clap*

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I'll clarify that I don't think every single thing in the game is competitive. I'm looking at you Point Defense Re-Route. I'm also more than happy to concede there are some upgrades that are meta defining. Dealing with Demolisher, for example, requires forethought. I just don't dismiss large swaths of upgrades simply because they're outside the current meta, nor do I think taking the OP hotness is required to win.

Ok we are in fact totally on the same line.

The origin of the debate was this sentence:

I understand these kind of rankings can be helpful to new players, but I can't help feeling it's WRONG to make them. Luckily this game is - for the most part - not about "tiers"

Of course the fact that there is a meta doesn't exclude your ability to innovate, but in order to innovate you have to know the current meta in order to find possible counters and this precisely why such list are important especially for competitive players.

I stand behind my sentence. Well, maybe some clarification is due: of course a meta exists, and knowing it to a certain degree is required to have a chance in competitive play. But what you're saying is basically " this game's lists tend to a limit, given the right amount of time we will all be playing the same 2-3 lists", and that's quite different.

I'll give this to you: some archetypes are better than other at taking on specific opposing archetypes. If the game grows stale, as you're suggesting it will over time, the number of archetypes played narrows and you're building your fleet to pew pew the hell out of those archetypes, and only those. Thing is, game is not stale at least right now: if you look at records of the vassal tournaments we had, a number of different fleets archetypes was tried out and while admittedly some had more overall successes than others, a clear winner didn't come out, at least until the last final where we had dodonna squadrons vs dodonna squadrons.

I happened to stumble upon Truthiness blog post about rebel commanders, and I fully agree with him on the matter: every choice you make when building the list has to be put in perspective. Mon Mothma sucks with squadrons, right. Does she suck with mc 30s? Do mc 30 suck in general, not fitting in the squadrons themed flavour of the month? I beg to differ.

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Seems like a solid list to me Biggs. I like suppressor and avenger a little more than you do.

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That thing about Instigator. Didn't understand that.

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Hey BiggsIRL is entitled to his opinions. That's why the world makes chocolate, strawberry, and vanilla. Besides, SOMEONE has to love Independence.

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I believe what Biggs was trying to say with Instigator was there was question that if instigator engaged squads and no other fighters are around can the squads attack instigator? If they can attack instigator can they also attack another ship in range or do they have to attack Instigator? Instigator doesn't prevent bombers from attacking other ships if no squads are around to attack.

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I believe what Biggs was trying to say with Instigator was there was question that if instigator engaged squads and no other fighters are around can the squads attack instigator? If they can attack instigator can they also attack another ship in range or do they have to attack Instigator? Instigator doesn't prevent bombers from attacking other ships if no squads are around to attack.

Or from attacking Instigator itself...

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The rebel list is pretty fair, in my experience. Yavaris being omega tier was odd only because it seems to contradict what classifies as omega tier, but I like the analysis behind each rating.

I found myself rating a few 1 level higher or lower based on specific builds that utilize them or don't, but thanks for writing it. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the redepemtion title is strangely not good. Well, it's great actually In theory, just not on a Neb B. Tried it a few times, but unless you're taking 3+ Nebs in a list, I'd take the other two titles every time.

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I believe what Biggs was trying to say with Instigator was there was question that if instigator engaged squads and no other fighters are around can the squads attack instigator? If they can attack instigator can they also attack another ship in range or do they have to attack Instigator? Instigator doesn't prevent bombers from attacking other ships if no squads are around to attack.

Ok, if that's the case I get it. He stated Instigator didn't work if all squads around it were heavy - seemed to imply they could move. But if he meant that Instigator can be attacked, that's correct.

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Correct, just to clarify Instigator can be attacked if all squads engaging your squadron are heavy.

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How your ranked tantive so low is crazy

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Biggs at it again! WRONG! WRONGGGG!

Joking, once you walk down the path of the Dark Side, you might as well walk it all! I presume you know we have cookies...

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So looking forward to the evaluation of Point-defense reroute...

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So looking forward to the evaluation of Point-defense reroute...

Higher or lower than liberty title...

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Toryn Farr B tier? I would put her higher up since almost all rebel ships and fighters have blue dice. It just boosts everything from B-Wings, Anti squadron fire from ships and fighters alike and ship to ship combat blue dice.

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Toryn Farr B tier? I would put her higher up since almost all rebel ships and fighters have blue dice. It just boosts everything from B-Wings, Anti squadron fire from ships and fighters alike and ship to ship combat blue dice.

Think of her as a "High B" / "Low A". I like her but I have a hard time figuring out what exact ship to put her on. It has to be something that can get right up into the fight, and not disintegrate as soon as something with H9 Turbolasers looks at it funny.

Edit: And you can't have your squadrons outrun her either, or she doesn't work.

Maybe put her together with my other low ranked wunderkind, Gallant Haven?

Edited by BiggsIRL
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I mean, to be fair to Biggs, I think YMMV on a lot of these. I personally think with FCT/FC that Independence is not worth it, having used it some, especially since upgrading 4 B-Wings to a Speed 3 Scurrgh costs the same, but some folks have found uses for it; I also think Quantum Storm is an amazing title, where as Biggs does not. Different Strokes, people