I was stating with her regular actions. You can put engine upgrade on her, but you won't have gyroscopic targeting which is nice if you want to be able to move your arc for free. I haven't seen her much with engine but that could just be the games I've played or watched, not speaking for everyone else
Well, I can see why you might not consider Ventress to be particularly effective, if you've never seen her built properly.
Good times.
The "Commonwealth Defenders" list with Vessery, Ryad and a PalpShuttle absolutely butchers Dengaroo. Provided the Defender player follows two simple rules:
1) Kill Manaroo first.
2) Do not engage Dengar until Manaroo is dead.
Then it's really not a fair fight at all. Dengar has to waste time burning down the shuttle if he wants even a chance at hurting the Defenders, during which time the Defenders can hunt down and kill Manaroo. Once Manaroo dies, Juke becomes downright abusive and will allow Vessery to bring Dengar down in 3-4 shots. And that's assuming Ryad doesn't chip in.
Regarding Assaj vs. Dengaroo:
Usually if you take Engine you will also take PtL (Engine without PtL is a pretty bad Lancer build IMO) so you can Boost and rotate arc if need be.
Secondly, the torp is not a guarantee. The Lancer is fast, so it can go from outside range 3 to range 1 in 1 round, then back out of range/arc if Dengar Sloops.
Third however, it matters a lot what you pair Assaj with. A Lancer alone won't be able to kill Manaroo fast enough, so you need a 2nd ship able to keep up, probably your only option being an Aggressor. Assaj/IG88 has a decent chance to burn down Manaroo fast. Assaj/something else not so much IMO.
Can someone please stop calling Zuckuss "Zuckass"? Its immature as hell and akin to calling Sheev "Palpasstin". Zuckuss never has been a problem, only Manaroos infinite range.
FGD, hows you experience with ARCs vs. Dengaroo? Do you, too value the sentiment of killing Manaroo first?
Adv Homing missiles+ Boba.
Pop out Zuckuss.
...and then, lol.
Zuckuss over Punishing One title?
You crazy, friendo. You crazy.
EDIT: sorry, misunderstood.
Anyway, I think bring down Zuckuss wil works, left a multiple stressed Dengar with no clue
Edited by Cerve
Adv Homing missiles+ Boba.
Pop out Zuckuss.
...and then, lol.
Zuckuss over Punishing One title?
You crazy, friendo. You crazy.
EDIT: sorry, misunderstood.
Anyway, I think bring down Zuckuss wil works, left a multiple stressed Dengar with no clue
title is always the better option, Dengar roll 2 dice is almost 0 damage against any ship that take an evade.
i like to take them out with surprise penetration
http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/575406/surprise-penetration-#
i like to take them out with surprise penetration
http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/575406/surprise-penetration-#
Agent Kallus on RAC?
Sweetie...no....
Can someone please stop calling Zuckuss "Zuckass"? Its immature as hell and akin to calling Sheev "Palpasstin". Zuckuss never has been a problem, only Manaroos infinite range.
FGD, hows you experience with ARCs vs. Dengaroo? Do you, too value the sentiment of killing Manaroo first?
The only game I had v dengaroo was when I still used r7t1 plasma torp thane with Tail gunner
Just plowed straight through dengar himself
His hypermods are adorable on only 2/1 die
Best part is him intentionally bumping thane only for thane to action boost out of b2b for shots
The "Commonwealth Defenders" list with Vessery, Ryad and a PalpShuttle absolutely butchers Dengaroo. Provided the Defender player follows two simple rules:
1) Kill Manaroo first.
2) Do not engage Dengar until Manaroo is dead.
Then it's really not a fair fight at all. Dengar has to waste time burning down the shuttle if he wants even a chance at hurting the Defenders, during which time the Defenders can hunt down and kill Manaroo. Once Manaroo dies, Juke becomes downright abusive and will allow Vessery to bring Dengar down in 3-4 shots. And that's assuming Ryad doesn't chip in.
Can you please give some tips how to catch Manaroo with the Defenders (Asteroid placement, deployment of Shuttle/Defenders)? I played two games against Dash with the "Commonwealth Defenders" and it was very hard to catch Dash. The Defenders can never keep up with him. Ok, Dash moves after the Defenders and Manaroo moves first, that is an advantage when playing against Manaroo. I won one game because I managed to luckily catch him in a corner, but I cannot see how I can do that with Manaroo when she is not willing to turn into the fight. Do you think putting the 3 biggest asteroids in three corners at Range 2 and 2 is the way to go? So Manaroo has to fly a "longer" way around the rocks or turn into the center of the map, hopefully.
I think one strategy could also be to stop with the shuttle the first, maybe also the second turn. Then I know which direction Manaroo is going to take, then fly in her way with the shuttle to have one good shot or maybe a block. A good Dengaroo Player will go for the shuttle first, which is hard to deny.
Edited by moxxii
Dash Rendar and Eaden Vrill. Dash is set up as Dash, and Eaden is set for blocking. (With an Intel Agent currently, but soon to be Cassian.)
Or replace Dash with Rey.
Eaten goes after Dengar and eventually dies, and Dash takes on Manaroo and wins. Dash should be in slightly better shape than a stressed out Dengar by this point.
Can you please give some tips how to catch Manaroo with the Defenders (Asteroid placement, deployment of Shuttle/Defenders)? I played two games against Dash with the "Commonwealth Defenders" and it was very hard to catch Dash. The Defenders can never keep up with him. Ok, Dash moves after the Defenders and Manaroo moves first, that is an advantage when playing against Manaroo. I won one game because I managed to luckily catch him in a corner, but I cannot see how I can do that with Manaroo when she is not willing to turn into the fight. Do you think putting the 3 biggest asteroids in three corners at Range 2 and 2 is the way to go? So Manaroo has to fly a "longer" way around the rocks or turn into the center of the map, hopefully.
I think one strategy could also be to stop with the shuttle the first, maybe also the second turn. Then I know which direction Manaroo is going to take, then fly in her way with the shuttle to have one good shot or maybe a block. A good Dengaroo Player will go for the shuttle first, which is hard to deny.
Your experience with Dash should fill you with confidence, if anything. Dash is higher PS, has 16 stress-clearing moves covering all directions, and doesn't care about obstacles... and still it is possible to catch him. Manaroo is lower PS, has 4 stress-clearing moves (sometimes 7) covering 2 directions, and is more afraid of obstacles than almost any other ship. She is almost trivial by comparison.
I try to space the obstacles out a fair bit, which often means going 2-and-2 with a couple. It does force Manaroo into either going wide around corners or cutting through the middle, but more importantly it leaves lots of open lanes for the Defenders to play in. After you see where Manaroo deploys, set the Defenders up to cut off her escape routes. Most of the time, I've found that means starting the Defenders either side of the centre, cutting the map into roughly thirds. This prevents Manaroo from going through the middle of the map, allowing you to corral her into corners where you can trap her. It's not always a quick job but you have the hit points and defences (not to mention the shuttle acting as a distraction) to be patient and hunt her down over several rounds.
I played against 2 dengaroo lists at worlds, Faan's and Nand's. I was running the Chewbacca Predator,Luke and two TLT Y's. Against Faan, My entire list engaged Dengar and just out gunned him. I think I elected not to fire once but other than that I took all his return shots and just out toughed him. Ended with chewbacca with shields down against Manaroo and won. I played Nand in round 8 of swiss. He was so aggressive with his Dengar that I was out of position and never could focus all my shots into Dengar and his manaroo was surprisingly good at keeping at range three but still shooting. He utterly crushed me.
Lists that have hitpoints and attacks are going to be your best bet against Dengar. Zuckuss screws your defenses to make them unreliable so don't rely on them. If manaroo is not engaging, it's like your fighting two ships in Dengar, If manaroo is forced to engage, bring all your guns to bare on her. Don't spread yourself out much unless you are soley engaged with Dengar and just get into a turning war with him. If you are a jouster, joust and know you are taking a second shot back.
It's "Zuckuss," not "Zuckass," people.
It's "Zuckuss," not "Zuckass," people.
They know, they think they are being smart and funny cradeling their Palpasstine-Shuttles
Ugh, I hate this idea of feeling you need to use a certain list to stand a chance against another list.
Don't take things so literally. Dengar will hurt assaj.
You forgot about number a very important factor # 3 Zuckass!!!I haven't actually tried this, but IMO it seems like it should work:)
Dengaroo seems to depend on a couple of things:
1) Dengar not caring about stress
2) Manaroo feeding Dengar focus tokens.
So a strategy that takes away those advantages ought to work:
Use Asajj Ventress in the Shadow Caster giving Manaroo stress tokens limiting her ability to both push the limit/boost away and give Dengar focus tokens
Then stock up on anything that takes advantage of Dengars stress like Latts Razzi crew which can take a stress to give you an evade or Black Market Slicer Tools to hopefully give a damage card.
You can also add tactician to Asajj or another ship to hopefully help deal out stress and/or use your other stress enabling abilities.
It's not just dengar action and second atta k that's deadly, it's the ability to make a person reroll his green dice. This is huge.
I think people are underestimating dengeraoo by simply saying stress and go after manaroo. A player who is skilled with dengeraoo is not going to make that easy. While you chase manaroo, dengar is free to roam. If you finally do catch her dengar still has glitterstim to help a round with no action.
Asajj will likely melt pretty fast from dengar imo. She can't go fast enough to keep up with ptl manaroo, and don't forget her ability, along with tactician requires to be in at least range 2 so again that's no easy task. Asajj has no boost or barrel roll capabilities, and if you out engine upgrade on her she's getting quite expensive. Even if you do manage to finally get to shoot at manaroo, you have to get her in your mobile arc, and range 2. Plus don't forget dengar is there
"melt?"
if dengar's dice are absolutely perfect , it'll still take 3 rounds. It's a single 3-dice PWT, not the hammer of thor himself
not even counting the fact that asajj can evade
also, "not fast enough to catch manaroo"?
they have the same maneuverability (caster can 3-turn) AND boost, except asajj is ps 6
asajj is always going to be expensive, but you're running EU on her. It's just too conducive to her long term survivability and utility to pass up
the shadowcaster (re: lancer pursuit class) should be one of the ships having the absolute least issue catching manaroo
Your forgetting that when dengar fires off his missle, he has a good chance of doing 4 dmg, then another 3 if he gets to do a follow up shot, not counting any crits that may get through. Asajj only has 2 green dice, so from the start dengar is probably going to take all her shields. Even if she manages to block 2, it's enough to take off her shields Next attack it's going to her hull. There is a very good chance with Zuckass, lone wolf and his focus of Getting a lot of dmg in one round. Next round she could be dead. A range 1 shot from dengar is not going to tickle, and come on, if your gunning for manaroo, you don't think a skilled dengar player won't see that?
OK how about she doesn't attack. Great dengar is still feeling fine. Asajj took some hIts and dengar is still doing ok. If the dengeraoo player knows what he's doing its going to be at least another turn before asajj catches manaroo. Even if she catches manaroo the next round she still has to get into range 1-2. She still has dengar shooting at her, and even if she did stress manaroo, dengar isn't going to feel the effects of that until the next round, and by then asajj is probably dead. Manaroo with the r5 droid can also shoot back if asajj is shooting.
If your putting engine on asajj then she doesn't have gyroscopic targeting or whatever it's called, so is she boosting with engine upgrade, or does she have to use her action to rotate her arc? If she has to rotate her arc, she can't boost, and vice versa. Put gyroscopic targeting on her and no boost, but at least she can turn her mobile arc as a free action.
I never once said dengar is the almighty thor. You made that up yourself. Dengar with Zuckass, a nice opening salvo, a reroll, and focuses is still going to hurt, and it does, not to mention his double tap if that does happen
Edit
I'm not saying it's not impossible so don't take it like that. I'm just saying I don't think itll be easy. Itll also highly depend on who is with asajj.
Dice can fail, people make mistakes, but if the dengaroo player is skilled it won't be easy.
People seem to think "oh just do this" that's not always the case, and easier said than done. Dengeraoo is still a tough nut to crack. Things like defenders I think would have an easier time.
As I mentioned before I've beaten dengeraoo on multiple occasions, and each time I gunned Dengar down fast. Chasing manaroo can bite you in the ass pretty hard. Especially if she gets away
*you're
Ugh, I hate this idea of feeling you need to use a certain list to stand a chance against another list.
The "Rock-Paper-Scissors" effect is nothing new in X-wing, in fact it goes back to the days of Tie Phantoms vs Fat Han.
There are more viable lists in the meta now which dilutes the effect somewhat, or at least gives us the variety of "Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock".
Ugh, I hate this idea of feeling you need to use a certain list to stand a chance against another list.
The "Rock-Paper-Scissors" effect is nothing new in X-wing, in fact it goes back to the days of Tie Phantoms vs Fat Han.
There are more viable lists in the meta now which dilutes the effect somewhat, or at least gives us the variety of "Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock".
That effect is, I think, far greater in the competitive scene though, especially with netlisting. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with playing that way, I just don't like it myself.
You have two options
1) Hit hard enough to get through Lone Wolf and focus tokens, often utilizing methods that don't depend on Target Lock
2) Have ships fast enough and durable to catch Manaroo and grind her down while ignoring Dengar
3) Stress Manaroo.
A good double stress from a Stresshog(mule) shuts down Manny. No tokens for Dengar.
But you hit the nail right on the head. You need to chase down and eliminate Manaroo. Once she is out of the picture Dengar is like a declawed cat.