So there is a point of contention with a group of X-Wing players I'm with. There are a few players who are saying that if you have the Phantom docked with the Ghost, and both have TLTs equipped, then according to the Phantom title, you can fire both TLTs in the same round.

But I disagree with that. The title card says you perform a primary weapon attack, either out the front or special arc, and then perform an attack with an equipped turret at the end of the combat phase. To me, a primary attack means the weapon value printed on the ship card and the ship template, with the arc that is shown on the template, just like every other ship in the game. The TLT is a secondary weapon, so it cannot be fired as a primary weapon. Therefore, if you fire with the turret first, you lose the additional attack.

So the Ghost activates with the Phantom docked. After the movement phase, the Ghost can fire a primary weapon attack out the front or rear. Then at the end of the combat phase, it can fire an additional attack with a turret.

Yet the players I've been discussing this with tell me that the Ghost fires it's TLT first and then fires the TLT again at the end of the round, essentially getting four TLT attacks. I don't think that's legal. The title card specifically says primary attack first, not secondary, not turret. The turret attack is after the primary attack. Or, to qualify for an additional turret attack, you must fire a primary attack.

Am I right, or am I missing something?

_{Not quite, it is a little odd in the wording but you are getting confused with the fact that the first sentence simply allows you to shoot out the rear arc. its not a prerequisite for the end of turn turret attack, heres the card text:}

_{While you are docked , the Ghost can perform primary weapon attacks from its special firing arc and, at the end of the Combat phase , it may perform an additional attack with an equipped Turret . If it performs this attack, it cannot attack again this round.}

_{So you may attack with your TLT during your activation in the combat phase, and then you may use the TLT at the endstep as well.}

_{The Phantom title does 2 things: lets you shoot primary weapons out the rear arc, and fire an equipped turret at the end step, both completely independent of the other.}

You said that you can attack with the TLT first and then at the endstep, or end of the combat phase. But I don't see how. The title card specifies that you must perform a primary weapon attack first, not a turret. Only then can you perform a turret attack at the end of the combat phase. How can you attack with a TLT both times? The card does not say turret, then turret. It says primary, then turret. The TLT is not a primary weapon. The only way a TLT can be a primary weapon is with the Outrider title, and the Ghost cannot take that title. It has to fire the primary first, then the turret.

Here is the text from the latest FAQ, page 17: If a VCX-100 is equipped with the Ghost title, has a docked Attack Shuttle equipped with the Phantom title, and performs an attack with a Twin Laser Turret at the end of the Combat phase, that ship can perform the second attack with Twin Laser Turret. https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/1c/fc/1cfc62b7-6ce3-49a9-ae93-d21326cb9a45/x-wing_faq_v421.pdf

It basically means that the TLT can attack twice, as usual, but only at the end of the combat phase. According to the card, in order to fire the turret at the end of the combat phase, you have to fire the primary weapon first.

_{Not quite, it is a little odd in the wording but you are getting confused with the fact that the first sentence simply allows you to shoot out the rear arc. its not a prerequisite for the end of turn turret attack, heres the card text:}

_{While you are docked , the Ghost can perform primary weapon attacks from its special firing arc and, at the end of the Combat phase , it may perform an additional attack with an equipped Turret . If it performs this attack, it cannot attack again this round.}

_{So you may attack with your TLT during your activation in the combat phase, and then you may use the TLT at the endstep as well.}

_{The Phantom title does 2 things: lets you shoot primary weapons out the rear arc, and fire an equipped turret at the end step, both completely independent of the other.}

I disagree. The first sentence states you can make a primary attack with the special arc, and a turret attack at the end of the Combat phase. That's all one sentence. I don't read it as being separated. Otherwise it seems quite overpowered for 0 points. Simply equip a TLT and get four attacks each round?

That's what I mean! Equip a TLT and get four attacks per round? It's overpowered and the card doesn't allow for that. But that is exactly what some of guys I play with are saying.

I disagree. The first sentence states you can make a primary attack with the special arc, and a turret attack at the end of the Combat phase. That's all one sentence. I don't read it as being separated. Otherwise it seems quite overpowered for 0 points. Simply equip a TLT and get four attacks each round?

Yes, you can indeed take the VCX with the TLT and the attack shuttle, give them both their titles and use the TLT twice per round.

The title card has only one condition for two effects. Be docked to allow the Ghost to fire a primary out it's special rear arc and make a turret attack at the end of the combat phase, ala Corran Horn.

The two effects would be linked if it used wording such as 'if you do' 'instead of' 'otherwise' etc.

That's what I mean! Equip a TLT and get four attacks per round? It's overpowered and the card doesn't allow for that. But that is exactly what some of guys I play with are saying.

It's not overpowered in the sense that it's not cheap. Sure the title is as 0 points, but adding TLT with Zeb (The cheapest attack shuttle pilot) is 24pts, the cost of two Academy TIEs, two Bandit Z95s, or a Blue Sq T-70.

Actually, a Gold Sq Y-Wing with TLT is 24pts.

If you have a kitted out VCX with a TLT Phantom docked, you can't take much else in the squad as you'll have used about 70pts. The cheapest you can make it is a Lothal Rebel, TLT, Title w/ Zeb and Title at 59pts.

So in a list you'll have the vcx with it's docked phantom and an escort. Total of 3 attacks per round. Still sound over-powered ?

I think you guys might be forgetting that you also have to spend a minimum of 18 points on a docked phantom to get the effect.

Edit:

Also, if it was a prerequisite to shoot with the primary it would have been worded:

You may fire your primary weapon out the special rear arc, IF YOU DO you may attack with a turret weapon at the end phase.

It's not a requirement, it's 2 separate abilities.

It's just a card that says this ship can now do "X" and also "Y"

Second edit:

Pretty sure the list that won Gencon this year wad playing this exact combo

No, that's not legal. The card says primary, then turret.

The title allows you to attack with any valid attack and separately to attack with the turret on the Ghost at the end of the round.

IIRC this is in the FAQ.

It's not overpowered because doing this with a TLT costs only 1 point less, minimum, then bringing an extra TLT y wing would...

The title allows you to attack with any valid attack and separately to attack with the turret on the Ghost at the end of the round.

IIRC this is in the FAQ.

It's not overpowered because doing this with a TLT costs only 1 point less, minimum, then bringing an extra TLT y wing would...

The entry in the FAQ only clarified the end of the Combat phase attack if you were using a TLT, that you would get both of those attacks. There was some initial confusion caused by the last line on the Phantom card stating you couldn't attack again, and if it affected TLT's twin attacks.

So all the 4-unblockable-damage AT/AC/Phantom builds don't work either?

They do work.

They do work.

Thought so. That idea is pretty popular and this is literally the first time I've seen anyone arguing that it shouldn't work.

If they wanted the extra attack to be specific to using the primary weapon they would have worded it this way:

The ghost may make primary weapon attacks from its special arc. If it makes a primary weapon attack, it may make an additional attack with an equipped [turret] at the end of the combat phase. If it does so it may not attack again this round.

There's no conditional on the second clause, so it's not conditional on the first clause.

This are 3 different effects:

While you are docked , the Ghost can perform primary weapon attacks from its special firing arc and, at the end of the Combat phase , it may perform an additional attack with an equipped Turret . If it performs this attack, it cannot attack again this round.

While you are docked , the Ghost can perform primary weapon attacks from its special firing arc then at the end of the Combat phase , it may perform an additional attack with an equipped Turret . If it performs this attack, it cannot attack again this round.

While you are docked , the Ghost can perform primary weapon attacks from its special firing arc or at the end of the Combat phase , it may perform an additional attack with an equipped Turret . If it performs this attack, it cannot attack again this round.

The third one is similar to how the TIE /sf title works - you may choose and use only one of two effects described. The second one clearly shows the sequence (first A, then B). The first one gives 2 additional skills: shooting from special firing arc AND another shot.

So there is a point of contention with a group of X-Wing players I'm with. There are a few players who are saying that if you have the Phantom docked with the Ghost, and both have TLTs equipped , then according to the Phantom title, you can fire both TLTs in the same round.

I just wanted to point out something else going on here, there is no requirement for the attack shuttle to have a TLT equipped for the title to allow the Ghost to fire it's TLT twice in one round.

Indeed. The Phantom title allows the Ghost to use ITS turret.

I still don't understand why the titles were designed the way round they were. Space reasons I guess.

But the Phantom title being in play despite the ship not being, and changing the Ghost's capabilities rather than itself has led to not-insignificant amounts of confusion.

There's some confusion in this thread, so I'll reiterate how it actually works.

ONLY the VCX-100 needs a turret for the end of combat phase turret shot.

In addition to that, there is NO stipulation that you have to use your primary to get the end of combat phase turret shot. You can absolutely do two turret attacks in one round. The Phantom title gives two different and completely separate abilities to the Ghost: a second arc you can use your primary weapon with, and an end of phase turret attack. You can absolutely do 4 TLT shots in one round.

The FAQ entry that got posted earlier was because of the wording, you only got THREE TLT shots before. The two from your normal attack and only half of it at end of phase, because the title says you cannot make more attacks.

And it's not overpowered. You have to spend at least 18 extra points for that ability to work.

I would also say it's not overpowered due to the fact that if you somehow manage to roll 3 "Kabooms" and the defender blanks out you still only cause 1 damage and cancel all dice results meaning no face up damage cards.

I had a discussion with another individual today who actually recognized where my confusion was. The Phantom title gives the Ghost the "option" of firing either the primary weapon, a torpedo weapon, or a turret weapon, when it first activates. The primary or torpedo weapons can be fired out of the front or back arcs, and of course the turret can fire all around. Then the turret can fire again at the end of the combat phase. I was wrong.

The title card is poorly worded because it can lead one (like myself) to believe that only the primary weapon can activate the turret at the end of the round; there is no mention of an either/or option. And the only entry in the FAQ that mentions the VCX-100 is a TLT clarification stating that the attack can be rolled twice at the end of the combat phase, just like a normal TLT attack. (this was an issue when the Ghost first came out) There is nothing in the FAQ about the Phantom title. This, along with the fact that my fleet mates were talking past me and not to the situation, caused me a great deal of confusion.

As for it being overpowered, I was hasty in what I said, though it is a very powerful ability. However, the Ghost is sorely missing the EPT upgrade. I don't give a @$%! what the playtesters say, the Ghost is a giant target, more vulnerable than the Decimator, (just look at the maneuver dials) and even the YT-1300 has one agility. The VCX-100 has nothing. The pilot cards need an EPT to stay competitive. (you can't even equip R4-D6) So maybe 4 TLT attacks in a round is a way to make up for it, however inadequate that may be.

Funny, considering the VCX is one of the few competitive ships that Rebels actually have. And most of those don't take the Ghost/Phantom title combo. It's got a 1 hard turn and K-turn, and combining that with Hera and FCS (and possibly Ezra if you have the points) makes it into a giant blocking 4/5 dice throwing terror. Now combine it with something else that's scary, such as Super Dash or...well, a second VCX. Double VCX has been doing quite well, lately. It's definitely better than a Decimator. 4 attack vs 3 is a MASSIVE difference, as that's the required attack needed to really start busting through tokened up ships.

Funny, considering the VCX is one of the few competitive ships that Rebels actually have. And most of those don't take the Ghost/Phantom title combo. It's got a 1 hard turn and K-turn, and combining that with Hera and FCS (and possibly Ezra if you have the points) makes it into a giant blocking 4/5 dice throwing terror. Now combine it with something else that's scary, such as Super Dash or...well, a second VCX. Double VCX has been doing quite well, lately. It's definitely better than a Decimator. 4 attack vs 3 is a MASSIVE difference, as that's the required attack needed to really start busting through tokened up ships.

Decimator is at least as good with PWT. Give him EU and he is capable of arc dodging and you have an EPT slot on any named pilot.

Funny, considering the VCX is one of the few competitive ships that Rebels actually have. And most of those don't take the Ghost/Phantom title combo. It's got a 1 hard turn and K-turn, and combining that with Hera and FCS (and possibly Ezra if you have the points) makes it into a giant blocking 4/5 dice throwing terror. Now combine it with something else that's scary, such as Super Dash or...well, a second VCX. Double VCX has been doing quite well, lately. It's definitely better than a Decimator. 4 attack vs 3 is a MASSIVE difference, as that's the required attack needed to really start busting through tokened up ships.

Deci isn't a terrible option, and deci/whisper still sees play. They're just overshadowed by palp and the x7 title right now