Warden of Healing is broken?

By Emilius, in The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game

Look the following 3 photos.

The combo of these 3 cards is unbelievable.

Heroes Gloin and Elrond in combo with Warden of Healing. My deck is very similar to "Seastan's Gloin" deck.

I won 3 game on 3 played against the scenario Ruins of Belegost, in solo mode.

When you finish to setup Gloin after 2/3 round, it is no longer necessary to defend!

Put all damage on him and heal him with the Warden.

It is possible an infinite loop.

In my last round, I was engaged with 11 enemies! But this is not a problem for this combo.

My question is: do you think that the Warden's ability is Broken?

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11 enemies without a Dunedain deck? Wow!!!

Warden of healing isn't broken. That combination is. Lots of resource generation can have that effect when paired with other cards.

There are plenty of combinations of cards that share this problem, for example:

Blood of NĂºmenor/Gondorian Fire/Steward of Gondor.

Elrohir/Steward of Gondor.

All of them are exciting at first. But (at least for me) it gets booooring pretty soon. When I look for fun decks on ringsdb I always skip the ones that rely on these combinations. And Outlands. Always Outlands. :P

Edited by Mazarbul

In what way could that possibly be an infinite combo?

Not infinite, but you are simply immortal

What if an attack deals more damage than you can stomach?

Looks like he put on Boots of Erebor and a Citadel Plate, so as long as you don't have to defend anything higher than 8, you should be good.

In my experience, attack higher than 8 is not something uncommon, especially for the undefended.

In general there is a problem in the game of effects that can trigger without limits per round, but to be honest I'm not too concerned about situations like this. It looks absurd because the deck is designed to do absurd things, whereas another type of deck would look less absurd because it would just kill all the enemies before they can gang up like this.

Speaking as the guy who accidentally discovered this combo back in April (against Ruins of Belegost as it happens)... no. The Warden of Healing is not broken. The combo is broken. If we're fingering a specific component of the combo as broken rather than the combo as a whole, then it's Gloin rather than either of the other two. I can't think of any other case where the Warden gets that kind of crazy broken good.

Warden of Healing is a very powerful card (detrimentally powerful to the design of new healing cards IMO), because if he were made today, I doubt he would be as powerful. But having said that, it's the combo that is broken, not the Warden.

However, I wouldn't be surprised to see a nerf, some x limit per round.

It depends on the encounter deck but Warden of Healing can die pretty easily. He's pretty balanced. However, if you are spending two resources to heal four damage (due to Elrond and using Warden twice) - you are pretty much just gaining 2 resources according to the Gloin Blood to Resource exchange rate. So you are honestly no better than Steward of Gondor. Which is or isn't OP, depending on who you ask.

THERE IS NO REASON FOR ANY KIND OF NERF.

Edited by Slothgodfather

But this is not about resources, it's about immortality, isn't it?

I guess, but the set up on that combo is kinda big. It's not like there aren't other ways to create immortal characters in this game, if you put in the effort. Gloin is clearly the problem with this combo, since if he can't spam resources like that to heal himself via the Wardens then there's less of an issue. I feel like this is one of those 'don't play it if you don't like it' combos, rather than something that needs errata. Would the deck work if you subbed out Elrond or Gloin?

I think Gloin could use the limit, much more than Warden of Healing, personally.

People are really unhappy about core set Glorfindel's 1 resource for 1 hp healing, but that's about what the Warden provides with his ability. (Elrond doubles the efficiency of both, but still...)

Gloin's ability with (Limit once per round) would still let you entirely tank one enemy without having to defend, but not as many as you want.

It is very potent in solo games, but in a multiplayer game the combination is not that relevant,

I saw a complaint (here? BGG) about this combo taking over combat in multiplayer with Song of Mocking. That's yet one more card for the combo, but it's the only situation where I think the combo existing actually presents a problem to anyone.

I still disagree that he should get a limit just because this combo exists. It is a pretty hefty amount of cards you have to get going to make happen. Sure, changing Gloin would "fix" this from working - but why is that so important? You have to go well out of your way to make the deck do this. But a change to Gloin isn't going to only effect this one deck. It would all of them. and that is why it should be left alone. You want to take the time to build this deck/combo and play the game this way - go right ahead.

I would have preferred if Warden of Healing didn't have the readying ability. Even apart from this semi-infinite combo, he is already the best healing card in the game without the readying ability. As is, he's one of the staple cards that needs to be included in almost every lore deck. The game is better when there are fewer staples.

I'm in favour of a limit on warden of healing more than on Gloin on this one.

I don't find this ridicilous and "immortal" since you can easily get wrecked by shadow effect that could discard ally/character/attachement or boost attack enough to oneshot Gloin.

I wonder how would you limit Warden of Healing? If you put a limit once per round, he won't be able to heal again after getting readied for 2 lore resources, and with his stats, 2 lore resources would be too much for his reading.

The nastiest I can think of is "limit: 6 (or whatever) damages healed per phase".

That way you can steal keep heal a tons of damage each turn with a lot of ressources, but no more loop possible.

Just take away his readying ability.

You could also make just the readying part be once per phase/round. But I agree with the others that say that Gloin is the heart of the issue with the combo, not the Warden. How many times have you really abused the Warden's readying in other contexts? Even with Steward on a Lore hero, it's tough to overly take advantage of.

With an ever expanding card set eventually some combinations will emerge that are very very good. However most people i suspect would use it a few times and then think its not such a fun deck any more so i will change it and not use that particular combination. I do not think it means any one card is broken, just unsuitable to use in that particular set up but fine to use it elsewhere instead.

I change my heroes and decks all the time to keep things interesting, i don't think i would ever stick with one deck just because its very good. I would probably just call that set up an unallowable combination for future use.