I would take a non Corran E-wing over a Scyk as well, but that doesn't mean the E-wing isn't still one of the worst ships in the game, it just means it isn't THE worst

You jokers are insane. Pick any point total between 27 and 100, you build your list using only non-Corran E-Wings and I'll build mine using only Scyks. Guarantee that the E-Wing list gets crushed.

Here's the simplest illustration I can make showing why the Scyk (which is inefficient and overcosted) is still not in as bad a spot as all E-Wings who aren't Corran Horn:

I would take a non Corran E-wing over a Scyk as well, but that doesn't mean the E-wing isn't still one of the worst ships in the game, it just means it isn't THE worst

You jokers are insane. Pick any point total between 27 and 100, you build your list using only non-Corran E-Wings and I'll build mine using only Scyks. Guarantee that the E-Wing list gets crushed.

.eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

dice

no guarantees

which isn't to say the knave/blackmoon aren't the two most horribly overcosted pieces of garbage after (and possible even before) the defender fix, but still dice are dice

do personally believe the scyk's about a point too pricey (and the title probably the same, if not 2 points)

but the E?...**** I could see the knave at 22 (5 point discount) and still not being amazing relative to the blue squad B

I'd rather have a bunch of these guys vs. those E-wings:

I would take a non Corran E-wing over a Scyk as well, but that doesn't mean the E-wing isn't still one of the worst ships in the game, it just means it isn't THE worst

You jokers are insane. Pick any point total between 27 and 100, you build your list using only non-Corran E-Wings and I'll build mine using only Scyks. Guarantee that the E-Wing list gets crushed.

.eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

dice

no guarantees

You're right. I can't gaurantee that the E-Wings lose. Their dice could be hot and they roll nothing but evades and hits.

But it should be very obvious which ships have the edge and are the favorites to win. It's still not the E-wings.

do personally believe the scyk's about a point too pricey (and the title probably the same, if not 2 points)

but the E?...**** I could see the knave at 22 (5 point discount) and still not being amazing relative to the blue squad B

Again, this is my point. PS2 Scyk is 1pt over costed. Scyk title is 1pt over costed. PS5 Scyk is 2points over costed. By the time you're rocking a Tansari with title, you're 3pts over costed. It's not a small thing, and that's why you don't see them.

That said, the generic E-Wings are at least 4 points over costed, and there's no lower level of E-Wing where you're decreasing the amount of point inefficiency, unlike with the Scyk.

A generic PS2 Scyk is only 1pt over costed (it gets worse if you go Tansari or equip the title) but overspending by 1pt isn't exactly a deficit you can never recover from.

For sure the answer is E-Wings who aren't Corran Horn.

They're nothing but a point pinata. You can never get ahead while flying one. They're obscenely inefficient.

Edit: Anyone who thinks it's a Scyk over an E-Wing, I'd for sure let you make a list where you had to use a non-Corran E-Wing, and I have to use a Scyk, and we'll see which list fares better. It's not the E-Wing list.

A couple years ago I won an escalation tournament with Etahn and 5 A Wings. Just sayin'

Here's the simplest illustration I can make showing why the Scyk (which is inefficient and overcosted) is still not in as bad a spot as all E-Wings who aren't Corran Horn:

Knave Squadron Pilot (27)

Total: 27

vs.

Cartel Spacer (14)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Hull Upgrade (3)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Total: 26

Now, consider the pilot skill, stat line, and cost for both ships. Now let's say you're playing someone for $1,000, and you get to pick which ship you wanna fly. Which do you take? As the point totals go up, the gap never closes. E-Wing always loses.

Scyk is bad. E-Wings are utter garbage. Corran Horn is just good enough that he can fly garbage and make it work.

27 points if i get to pick your upgrades too. I would have chosen a competition at 1 more point so i can take the droid to reduce hits for stress.

27 points if i get to pick your upgrades too. I would have chosen a competition at 1 more point so i can take the droid to reduce hits for stress.

Okay, but if you'd have set the game point total at 28pts and we were both going in blind, I would have brought 2 generic PS2 Scyks for 14pts a pop, knowing that you'd only have 1 ship at PS1. I'd have rested assured that even if you managed to kill 1, I'd have eventually widdled you down with my remaining, higher PS ship.

There really isn't any point total where the E-Wings come out ahead. And if I know you're bringing a PS1 E-Wing with 1pt for upgrades, what's to stop me from bringing this?

Rebel transport... It has no ability to attack! I run a campaign similar to HotAC and nothing I add to the game can make the players take GR-75s. Its kinda sad.

There are no bad ships, just over costed ones.

The M3A would be perfectly viable if the titles were free and gave a negative 2 points to the weapon.

27 points if i get to pick your upgrades too. I would have chosen a competition at 1 more point so i can take the droid to reduce hits for stress.

Okay, but if you'd have set the game point total at 28pts and we were both going in blind, I would have brought 2 generic PS2 Scyks for 14pts a pop, knowing that you'd only have 1 ship at PS1. I'd have rested assured that even if you managed to kill 1, I'd have eventually widdled you down with my remaining, higher PS ship.

There really isn't any point total where the E-Wings come out ahead. And if I know you're bringing a PS1 E-Wing with 1pt for upgrades, what's to stop me from bringing this?

Tansarii Point Veteran (17)

Lone Wolf (2)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Hull Upgrade (3)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Total: 28

My initial example was just the easiest point for point comparison I could think of.

E-Wings are worse than Scyks by a lot. Corran is just so boss it doesn't matter to him.

moving goal posts is why i shouldn't have bothered replying. this new ship is a better opponent though (2 scyks didnt have much of a chance).

moving goal posts is why i shouldn't have bothered replying

My first post was to show how a 26pt Scyk stacks up against a 27pt E-Wing.

You replied with something like "Yeah, but against an HLC, I add that one astromech that's good against HLC. After that, the E-Wing doesn't look so bad". That's not much of an argument.

I then argued that no matter where you move the point total, the Scyk is the stronger ship.

Here's another example of what 27pts will get you in a Scyk, as compared to a 27pt E-Wing (which is the cost of the baseline E-Wing, with no tricks and a pilot skill of 1):

Have a build and play the other persons list if you want to see the scrap come out

No worries, Maybe it came across like that. The 1 pt upgrade was vs any scyk and had nothing to do with your champion.

Still don't see how the scyk is vastly better in these match ups @27 or 28 (even vs your one ship or two ship list).

The mangler is the best weapon in this scenario. Lone wolf is obviously not allowed in a one ship death match so I took your entry as just bs.

So a ship with half its points in upgrades about equals an Ewing with maybe a 1 point upgrade. Seems both are about on par but the Ewing can't be one shot, so it wins in my opinion.

Still the TIE Bomber.

Fel's Wrath is still pretty much the worst... Everything.

The FFG cargo boat. No question.

This. Worst dial in the game. I swear the boat carrying HotR has nothing but a 1 K turn.

Fel's Wrath is still pretty much the worst... Everything.

It's your wingman.

Still the TIE Bomber.

Debatable, depends on if you are counting the tie shuttle.

That's in no way bad.

Still the TIE Bomber.

Flat out wrong, but we have been there. I get your reasoning and I agree they won't (probably ever) be top meta, but Gamma Vets are very potent, beyond any Scyck, beyond generic E-Wings, certainly beyond any generic Punisher (doing what they do, only better and cheaper, Punisher lives by its aces), and proabably beyond X-Wings.

At the moment it has to be the K Fighter. Can't even remember the last time I saw anyone playing one.

Scyks get some use from mindlink now.

Star Vipers see some play from Guri still.

Tie Bombers and Punishers are decent thanks to chips and extra munitions and LRS.

The K fighter did have the edge over the xwing at first thanks to the 1 point reduction and the (IMO) better dial. Now with IA xwings have the edge again. Especially when they have 3 times as many pilot choices.

I would take a non Corran E-wing over a Scyk as well, but that doesn't mean the E-wing isn't still one of the worst ships in the game, it just means it isn't THE worst

You jokers are insane. Pick any point total between 27 and 100, you build your list using only non-Corran E-Wings and I'll build mine using only Scyks. Guarantee that the E-Wing list gets crushed.

Now you're making the assumption I would want to fly straight E-wings. Never. If that's the scenario, then I'll take the Scyks, but as a ship in general, I'd rather have an E-wing in my list then a Scyk.

I would take a non Corran E-wing over a Scyk as well, but that doesn't mean the E-wing isn't still one of the worst ships in the game, it just means it isn't THE worst

You jokers are insane. Pick any point total between 27 and 100, you build your list using only non-Corran E-Wings and I'll build mine using only Scyks. Guarantee that the E-Wing list gets crushed.

Now you're making the assumption I would want to fly straight E-wings. Never. If that's the scenario, then I'll take the Scyks, but as a ship in general, I'd rather have an E-wing in my list then a Scyk.

If I have a gap in my list it's a lot easier to fit a 19pt Ion Scyk (which I find really useful) than a 27pt base E-Wing. And hell there are a lot more useful ships at 27 than that base E-Wing in the Rebel list.

The K-Wing. Assuming you're talking about aesthetics.