I take a Themed Force...

I even went to the trouble to individually name every ship involved, and set a set of "permanent" upgrades for those ships...

The Cleansing Fire, for example, Always had XI-7 Turbolasers...

The Invisible Truth was Always a B-Model Assault Frigate with an Expanded Hangar Bay, and would always be the Flagship if it was present in the battle....

I take a Themed Force...

I even went to the trouble to individually name every ship involved, and set a set of "permanent" upgrades for those ships...

The Cleansing Fire, for example, Always had XI-7 Turbolasers...

The Invisible Truth was Always a B-Model Assault Frigate with an Expanded Hangar Bay, and would always be the Flagship if it was present in the battle....

Same here. Blood Squadron has individually named ships, and I very seldom alter their load out. When I do is usually to experiment with different builds or fighters, etc. Got a whole background for the Admiral in charge and the system the fleet is based out of.

All I heard was 'themed force', everything else is background noise for me at this point

By which I mean that players would come up with an idea for a force that matched something from the lore, build their army around it with self imposed restrictions, and then model and paint their figures to match their theme. Armada and X Wing are much more clinical than that. People take the powerful combinations, and nothing else, and no consideration is given to anything other than efficiency and power level.

Umm.... show of hands, who doesn't play like that on a regular basis? -holds up hand and awkwardly looks at his signature- The most I I'll do to ships after I've made and codefied them is switch out an officer slot. I've got a fleet roster for every ship I own which includes its A and B version, they've got their upgrades, they're done as far as I'm concerned.

First time play should really limit upgrade cards anyway. I do think that some upgrades can wreck the rules but there doesn't seem to be a killer list where nothing can stand against it, or that there is only one competitive list for each faction. Remember for casual play, you could always forgo the turn limits and make it a death derby.

UPDATE: Last night I took many of the issues that were pointed out to me in this thread and had a mea culpa conversation with my friend who initial response was "Nah, no thanks, not interested." But as I explained to him, using all the incredibly helpful information gathered here in this sizable pool of opinions to articulate exactly how these things that he was so turned off by could, in fact, with experience become huge positives I slowly managed to change his opinion.

Not only is he going to try the game again (first without upgrades and few or no squadrons, then with squadrons and only general upgrades, then slowly into introducing the really funky stuff) but he is actually pretty excited to do so again. His personal mission, of course, is now to forever and ever kill every Dodonnas Pride that is ever set on a table against him. It is insane how passionately he hates that ship. But he is going to give the game a shot, and with his interest and excitement restored I think I have added another player to my circle of victi... I mean opponents. He is still iffy on tournaments because the idea of playing anything other than a Vykesesque theme list is abhorrant to him. But I may get him to show up just for the extra participation cards and to get in a few games in a row.

Thank you all for all your help through this process, I really appreciate all the insight and discussion.

UPDATE: Last night I took many of the issues that were pointed out to me in this thread and had a mea culpa conversation with my friend who initial response was "Nah, no thanks, not interested." But as I explained to him, using all the incredibly helpful information gathered here in this sizable pool of opinions to articulate exactly how these things that he was so turned off by could, in fact, with experience become huge positives I slowly managed to change his opinion.

Not only is he going to try the game again (first without upgrades and few or no squadrons, then with squadrons and only general upgrades, then slowly into introducing the really funky stuff) but he is actually pretty excited to do so again. His personal mission, of course, is now to forever and ever kill every Dodonnas Pride that is ever set on a table against him. It is insane how passionately he hates that ship. But he is going to give the game a shot, and with his interest and excitement restored I think I have added another player to my circle of victi... I mean opponents. He is still iffy on tournaments because the idea of playing anything other than a Vykesesque theme list is abhorrant to him. But I may get him to show up just for the extra participation cards and to get in a few games in a row.

Thank you all for all your help through this process, I really appreciate all the insight and discussion.

I can fully understand hating a ship that much (for me it is Gallent Haven), hope it all goes well. Only other advice I would have when it comes time to try fighters do not start him with TiE's as they suck the big one. No one in my local group will use them any more, last to try used 16 flights of them and they were all dead in two turns having only killed two X-wings.

Is there a good starter guide that is up to date? If I'm looking into starting to play Armada - what do I need? What should I get first? What should I skip or do later?

Core + ???

Welcome to the club!

Which side are you looking to join?(or both?)

yup the build lists are a good place to get some ideas

I play both Armada and X-wing and the rules "shenanigans" that can be pulled in Armada along with the lack of defense dice can make for a cruel outcome. In the OPs post, it seems like he out-gamed (meta'd) his opponent and ruined his introduction to the game. My enthusiasm for both games has been waning lately, but at least in X-wing the extreme variety of the dice can give some wild outcomes, at times robbing you of what seemed a guaranteed kill at others saving you from a poor move.

In Armada, player skill is bigger factor. MUCH bigger. A skilled player armed with a good list will DEMOLISH (see what I did there?) anyone without that same combo. A really skilled player can even take a 'goof around' list and dismantle someone. I'm a very mediocre Armada player and I tend to like 'balanced, fluffy' lists. This often means against anyone except maybe a new player, I'll get blanked 0-10. Any kind of meta list, MottISDs, ackbar conga lines....whatever other fancy names that I havent heard of yet....pound me into oblivion. Armada uses whats called a "Permissive Ruleset", meaning it has a core rulebook with all the basic rules but then card text gives you permission to exceed or modify those rules. "break" if you will. Meta-gaming is learning to maximize those effects to your advantage or your opponents disadvantage. People don't take Major Rhymer in a list because his card art looks cool, and they don't put Turbolaser Reroute Circuits on a CR-90 because it sounds fun.

Even in a clinical environment, a player removed the from local meta that just plays with friends will eventually figure out the meta. They'll tinker with lists, play around with ideas and soon enough they'll throw together something close to a meta list and waste their friends. So when it comes to Armada (and X-wing lets be honest) either you learn to play with the meta, or resign yourself to beaten by it. I hold out a small amount of hope for Corellian Conflict since a more narrative way to play Armada might just redeem it.

Expanding on what you're saying here, one of the things I really miss from playing more traditional wargames is the concept of a themed force. By which I mean that players would come up with an idea for a force that matched something from the lore, build their army around it with self imposed restrictions, and then model and paint their figures to match their theme. Armada and X Wing are much more clinical than that. People take the powerful combinations, and nothing else, and no consideration is given to anything other than efficiency and power level. And this is because (IMO) the upgrades alter the game in such significant ways that playing without them is madness. If their effects were much more subdued, I imagine the game would appeal to a wider base of players but that wouldn't match FFGs policy of making new ships attractive by stuffing them full of powerful new upgrades.

IMO, ffg seem to be moving away from power creep and have been trying to come up with upgrades that play with the current system in new ways(Perhaps why there seems to be so many rule breakers). To me the issue is the sheer number of upgrades that accumulate with each wave. Having to come up with so many different ideas for each upgrade for each expansion increases the chance that a powerful combination may arise somewhere down the line(which we have seen with X-wing). It also leads to multiple rule-exclusions and combinations(also seen in X-wing). IMO ffg could reduce the number of new upgrades that come with each expansion and spend more time considering interactions with current upgrades, or pack more repeats of prev upgrades

::wears fireman suit in preparation for flaming::

UPDATE: Last night I took many of the issues that were pointed out to me in this thread and had a mea culpa conversation with my friend who initial response was "Nah, no thanks, not interested." But as I explained to him, using all the incredibly helpful information gathered here in this sizable pool of opinions to articulate exactly how these things that he was so turned off by could, in fact, with experience become huge positives I slowly managed to change his opinion.

Not only is he going to try the game again (first without upgrades and few or no squadrons, then with squadrons and only general upgrades, then slowly into introducing the really funky stuff) but he is actually pretty excited to do so again. His personal mission, of course, is now to forever and ever kill every Dodonnas Pride that is ever set on a table against him. It is insane how passionately he hates that ship. But he is going to give the game a shot, and with his interest and excitement restored I think I have added another player to my circle of victi... I mean opponents. He is still iffy on tournaments because the idea of playing anything other than a Vykesesque theme list is abhorrant to him. But I may get him to show up just for the extra participation cards and to get in a few games in a row.

Thank you all for all your help through this process, I really appreciate all the insight and discussion.

I feel like he'd have hated D.P. as much if *he'd* played instead, because of how little it would have triggered.