Hi everybody,
I am just having a think about what would make a balanced and simple list for imperials vs rebels.
I am thinking of making it as simple as possible, so no special abilities and no upgrade cards. The typical set up is 2 low tie fighters vs 1 x-wing but I don't feel this is entirely fair if the beginner is playing the x-wing.
What do you suggest?
Depends on the people. Some people, even if they are new, will want the upgrades.
Personally I think going with just a core set a good approach.
Let them pick which they'd like to fly, and then switch it up the second game.
Don't get to heavy into rules/timing etc. Keep it simple. This way you can easily teach the steps, set dials, maneuvers/actions, combat, and end phase.
From there gauge how they've done, and go from there.
Some people suggest giving them the falcon as it doesn't require having to get things in arc, but I believe they shouldn't start with a falcon. You want them to understand and get use to the concept of having to get things in their arc.
After a couple core set games under their belt, you can try setting a small pt limit. 60 pts and let them fly couple of ships with upgrades and go from there
The typical set up is 2 low tie fighters vs 1 x-wing but I don't feel this is entirely fair if the beginner is playing the x-wing.
That depends on... Are you flying the Ties? Are you good at flying ties? Because giving a new player two ships can actually be an disadvantage because they require greater coordination to use effectively.
One option would be something like 2 ties and 2 Z-95s.
I usually try to weight it in the beginner's favor. Do 2 academies vs. Luke with r2d2. It's not overly complex, they have a few simple abilities they can use, and they have a significant advantage in terms of ship power. I also start without asteroids as they add an extra complexity. After game 1 add in some rocks and then go from there depending on their skill and how quickly they're picking it up.
The one thing I haven't figured out how to do yet is to not block them like a machine because I just do it automatically and beginners usually have predictable movement.
XXXXZ (Xs all with R2 and Integrated).
Simple point and shoot, and fast enough to let them maneuver around some. Upgrades are simple, jousting value is solid. Just make sure that you also fly something pretty simple, at least for the first few games.
Braylen Stramm (32) ARC-170 (25), Targeting Astromech (2), Kyle Katarn (3), Alliance Overhaul (0), Vectored Thrusters (2)
Jan Ors (32) HWK-290 (25), Twin Laser Turret (6), Nien Nunb (1)
Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) x 3
ive been struggling with this myself.
Ive tried to concoct some very minimalist lists with no glaring strengths or weaknesses so its all in the flying, which is the main thing i try to teach if i ever get in this situation. Problem is i seem to always end up with a miniswarm or a powerhouse lol.
The way I learned was we both had 2 interceptors each at different PS. It was suggested TIE's but you could be there all day. We didn't use upgrades, for the basics you need to learn about bumping, obstacles and order of movement and firing. Upgrade cards muddy the waters if they are starting brand new.
You could look here:
https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/230446-3-lists-for-new-players/
Or here
Depends on the people. Some people, even if they are new, will want the upgrades.
I had fun starting with 2 Interceptors and two FOs. So basically blue core set + imperial aces. I still would recommend that for people interest in imperials.
My wife at the other hand totally liked Dash + Poe + A-Wing, though she went fast to a TLT-Y-Wing support and after that to a ghost + dash, etc … so I am not 100% sure on the rebel start. Two Arcs with Biggs might be a great start these days.
I have two demo list for beginners. If I am teaching two people to play I use the following
Darth Vader and two academy pilots versus Luke Skywalker and a Red Squadron X-wing
Its a simple balanced list that's thematic, shows off different pilot skills and the players only have to keep up with Vader and Luke's special abilities. If the players want to play a second game I usually swap out Red Squadron for Wedge Antilles, and give Vader proton rockets.
If I am teaching a single player the game I use this list:
Chewbacca with Luke Skywalker and the Millennium Falcon title versus Howlrunner with Swarm Tactics, Night Beast, and Winged Gundark.
The New player gets the falcon and I get the TIE fighters. The falcon is very forgiving for a new player. Between Luke and the 360 turret they always have good chances to get damage through to the TIEs regardless of maneuver errors. With the TIEs I can put some pressure on Chewie but typically lose the match. Which in my mind is a good thing to let the newbie win in a demo game.
If they want to play a second game I will them move to the first list in this post.
There are two ways to do simple: One is having bare bones ships with few options and the other is using ships with easy to use/always on abilities.
Back when X-Wing was still young I liked the Secret Force suggestion which involved two 50 point squadrons. The absolute beginner was allowed to use Chewie with Gunner and a couple other easy upgrades because it is crazy easy to play, tough, and ignores some of the problems that can frustrate new/learning players. The Imperial side then flew a mix of three TIEs; this is the much more technical side of things and using things like Howlrunner and Backstabber could teach about formation flying and the importance of firing arc even when the Falcon got to ignore those concerns.
I would recommend b-wings. They have a lot of maneuvers of different difficulty, are straight forward ships and have one ability to repositioning
Wedge + R2
You fly: Howlrunner; AP
Anything more is too complicated and will not have staying power in teaching someone how to play the basics.
I have only taught a few beginners but always do with the core sets 2TIEs and X-Wing with no upgrades or asteroids. In both instances the bare bones got them excited enough to want to play more and it was simple enough to layer in upgrade cars and asteroids
I feel 2 Rookies vs. 3 Black Squadrons is a fairer match than the basic core set, since both sides have the redundancy to survive a round of bad dice. It also lets a player who choses rebels get an idea of what it's like to fly two ships at once. 2 Blue Squadron Novices vs. 3 Zeta Squadrons is another possibility.
Edited by SquarkI'd work through the game in order. Use the base core set first, and play around in the second game with Torpedoes and unique pilots. Then, start adding wave 1 ships like Darth Vader and Y-Wings. Then have the newbie fly Han Solo. Keep working through the releases until you get to wave 7 or so. Then they'll know all they need to know.
Playing this game is a lot like playing the piano. You're not just going to sit down and know everything there is to know right away... And there's no one particular thing you have to start with. If you learn the piano and you hate "Mary Had a Little Lamb", you don't have to play "Mary Had a Little Lamb"! You can even start with Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier right away... It's just going to take you FOREVER to get it right, and you're going to ask your teacher a bazillion questions...
Ask the beginner what he or she WANTS to fly... What looks fun.you can teach them how to fly it, and just give yourself something simple like a bunch of Academy Pilots.
maybe 50-60pts per player and limit the ship types to T-65 and tie-fighters but totally depends on ships you have available. id personally avoid intercepters as they are rather skill intensive to fly well. so a mix of tie advanced as previously stated would be good.
I think the basic X-Wing/TIEs is a good set up. Depending on the person's gaming experience, I'll might add a bit to the core set. For someone a little more intimidated, I'll just use the Core Set. If they have some experience, I'll pit two X-Wings against three TIEs (which I think is a bit more balanced and interesting on the whole). I try to focus entirely on the core game mechanics, usually with only one ability for folks to keep track of (R2-D2 is a really good option, as is Poe. Something iconic! I'll usually give the Imperials a TIE who can put out some more damage, like Zeta Leader or Mauler Mithel or something. Darth Vader is always a good choice too).
Edited by sionnach19Luke + r2d2 + IA (32)
Chewbacca + falcon title (43)
Gold + TLT+R4d6 (25)
It has: Large ship, turrets, special skills, regeneration. You can drop goldie for some A-wing. Jake with PTL and refit and autothrusters for some boost/barell roll shenenigans.
Not so sure on that list Amaimon.. I am aiming towards just having pure generics. I think being loaded down with special character text and add-ons is a bit much for a beginners very first game.
I think 4 ships list are the best. With 1 ace,1 blocker and 2 mid ships. This allow to teach all aspect of the game.
List like: