Over using force powers

By Diverdan001, in Game Masters

Having an issue at the moment where a force sensitive character is using thier move power constantly.

Every attack. Every time something needs to be moved. Shes bored.

Any ideas on how to curb the constant use?

Add more opposed checks, or require skill checks as part of power checks more often? Upgrade the difficulties more?

Story wise, Timothy Zahn put forth the thought in one of his books that overuse of the Force could lead to the dark side (after all, the Sith had no limits). That might not be official any more, but it makes a degree of sense; watch the movies, or The Clone Wars again. How often do characters utilize Move, and in what circumstances? Not much, and very special ones. Even Yoda has trouble focusing in one episode of the TCW.

Throw a problem at her that the Move power won't solve.

Add more opposed checks, or require skill checks as part of power checks more often? Upgrade the difficulties more?

Story wise, Timothy Zahn put forth the thought in one of his books that overuse of the Force could lead to the dark side (after all, the Sith had no limits). That might not be official any more, but it makes a degree of sense; watch the movies, or The Clone Wars again. How often do characters utilize Move, and in what circumstances? Not much, and very special ones. Even Yoda has trouble focusing in one episode of the TCW.

It's possible to interpret that concept or something like it from Anakin's line in AotC when he was casually using the Force to lift and peel a fruit for Padme: "If Master Obi-Wan caught me doing this, he'd be very grumpy."

Add more opposed checks, or require skill checks as part of power checks more often? Upgrade the difficulties more?

Story wise, Timothy Zahn put forth the thought in one of his books that overuse of the Force could lead to the dark side (after all, the Sith had no limits). That might not be official any more, but it makes a degree of sense; watch the movies, or The Clone Wars again. How often do characters utilize Move, and in what circumstances? Not much, and very special ones. Even Yoda has trouble focusing in one episode of the TCW.

It's possible to interpret that concept or something like it from Anakin's line in AotC when he was casually using the Force to lift and peel a fruit for Padme: "If Master Obi-Wan caught me doing this, he'd be very grumpy."

You can always throw in a conflict every time she does it when she's being lazy or when there's another option...It's similar to how the CRB mentions giving them out for "lying for personal gain" but in this case it's more along the lines of "utilizing the Force for personal gain."

This is why I wondered why they didn't use narrative dice for force powers!

Easy enough to introduce actual Force skills the Force Rating can function as the characteristic for force powers and add an extra purple difficulty die to the usual 2 purple die difficulty to show using force powers is difficult.

As for this maybe introduce setback dice if they repeatedly use force powers as its supposed to be harder than physical exertion!

It may be helpful to hear about how the GM is interpreting the rules regarding the move power and how the character is built, how many force dice, move power upgrades, etc. It is possible a miss understanding of the rules could be contributing to the issue.

Generally a force user will not generate the force pips needed to solve every problem by throwing stuff, unless the player is willing to take conflict, strain and flip a destiny point to convert dark side pips.

Also, If your player is bored then encourage them to use other skills and talents.

Lastly keep in mind the empire will send someone to look into open force use.

Having an issue at the moment where a force sensitive character is using thier move power constantly.

Every attack. Every time something needs to be moved. Shes bored.

Any ideas on how to curb the constant use?

If she's bored then she should do something different, it's just not just on you. I'm wondering if this person invested all their XP into the Move tree and has ended up with nothing else to fall back on. Personally I discourage buying too far into a tree, unless it's Enhance or Sense. Those are great "starter" Force powers, I almost wish almost all the others had an FR2 prerequisite. Especially Move, because you can easily end up as this PC, with an overpowered one-trick-pony. I dislike Move enough to have made my own version.

So it might be time for the player to readjust their character, take some XP from Move and apply it elsewhere to broaden her skill set, (and find a suitable narrative reason for this adjustment), or...

Agree to create an epic end scene where she *has* to use Move to sacrifice herself and save everyone else in the party. Then create a new, more balanced, character.

Having an issue at the moment where a force sensitive character is using thier move power constantly.

Every attack. Every time something needs to be moved. Shes bored.

Any ideas on how to curb the constant use?

More details of the character and the scenarios is necessary before I'd be willing to say good or bad personally. Is a Smuggler or Bounty Hunter wrong if they take out their blasters and shoot at every adversary?

Edited by 2P51

As for this maybe introduce setback dice if they repeatedly use force powers as its supposed to be harder than physical exertion!

And for those wondering on what the chatacter is. They are a hired gun merc soldier. Basically base skills as that class then once the player used the move skill they just dumped all xp into maxing out move skill.

The issue i have with a charcter using a force skill constantly is that they are are a 'force exile' they have a power that makes them a target for the empire if they find out about it. And the charcter uses it like a child playing with a rattle.

Edited by Diverdan001

As for this maybe introduce setback dice if they repeatedly use force powers as its supposed to be harder than physical exertion!

i like this concept.

And for those wondering on what the chatacter is. They are a hired gun merc soldier. Basically base skills as that class then once the player used the move skill they just dumped all xp into maxing out move skill.

The issue i have with a charcter using a force skill constantly is that they are are a 'force exile' they have a power that makes them a target for the empire if they find out about it. And the charcter uses it like a child playing with a rattle.

Actions and consequences.

Someone's noticed. Bring on the Empire. The character has painted a great big target on the entire group.

Hmm. Under those circumstances, I would think that they would probably start having Force Nightmares.

And maybe Force Daymares, too.

And lots and lots of big bad Sithy types chasing them and and trying to either convert them or kill them.

As for this maybe introduce setback dice if they repeatedly use force powers as its supposed to be harder than physical exertion!

i like this concept.

And for those wondering on what the chatacter is. They are a hired gun merc soldier. Basically base skills as that class then once the player used the move skill they just dumped all xp into maxing out move skill.

The issue i have with a charcter using a force skill constantly is that they are are a 'force exile' they have a power that makes them a target for the empire if they find out about it. And the charcter uses it like a child playing with a rattle.

Sounds like you're answering your own question then. If this PC is using the Force without any concern for the consequences or being noticed, then you need to be the GM and impose consequences. I don't mean mechanical silliness, I mean the Inquisitors should be showing up and putting a hurt on that PC.

Edited by 2P51

So, if a player invests a lot of XP into something, be that a Skill, a Talent, or a Force Power, it seems right to provide ample situations for them to use it. That doesn't come without consequences, though - depending on your setting, it might be Very Bad™ to be seen using the Force. Sure, by and by it's fine. But like others have said, you can't solve every problem by moving something with the Force, and sometimes a witness is going to want to cash in on that Imperial bounty on Force-users.

Having an issue at the moment where a force sensitive character is using thier move power constantly.

Every attack. Every time something needs to be moved. Shes bored.

Any ideas on how to curb the constant use?

Tell her not to use her power?

I fail to see on how it's on you to play her character for her. If she's bored, she should do something different.

As others have suggested, the main factor to curtail over-reliance upon the Force in this system is that it's set during the Rebellion Era, at a time when being outed as a Force user is a bad with a capital "B" thing.

Eventually, word is going to reach the Empire (the ISB has informants across the galaxy and in the unlikeliest places), which means the Inquisitors will soon be on the PC's tail. And if one Inquisitor isn't enough, then the Empire will send them in groups, until such point this Force user becomes such a pain in the Empire's hind quarters that Vader himself gets dispatched to deal with the problem. And the rules for fighting Vader are very simple, boiling down to two words: You Lose.

Another factor is that the designers presumed that Force user PCs would have a sense of restraint and not spam their Force powers all the time, taking cues from how characters in the film acted; namely not using the Force for every little thing. Closest we got to film characters spamming Force-based attacks was Dooku in AotC against Yoda (who stopped and switched to lightsabers after Yoda no-sold his efforts) and then Sidious in RotS against Yoda up to the point of literally throwing the Senate at the little green Jedi Master. That gives suggestion that using the Force to attack constantly is the purview of the dark side.

Also, keep in mind the Conflict rules. And if you're not using Conflict, then I suggest you start. If the PC's first reaction to danger is to start using Move, that can rack up Conflict pretty quickly as they're invariably dealing unnecessary damage to the area and to others, especially if they're tossing around objects that are Silhouette 2 or larger.

I'd also be careful and not impose too many consequences for a player having fun and doing something the game allows (and for which they've sunk significant XP into).

Bringing in the Inquisitors can be fun and a good consequence and add a lot to the story but I'd be careful about using it to punish the PC. Just my opinion, but such things should be primarily done for the fun of the game and not as a way to curtail the behavior of the PC. You don't like the way the PC is playing something in the game? I'd prefer to have a private conversation with them about it.

Having an issue at the moment where a force sensitive character is using thier move power constantly.

Every attack. Every time something needs to be moved. Shes bored .

Any ideas on how to curb the constant use?

Why is she bored? Address that, and an answer you will find.

Really. Bored players do stupid, annoying and repetitive things. This happens in every game system, at every table, in the universe everywhere. Has her character been able to make a meaningful contribution recently? Has the player been able to meaningfully contribute? Do other players have similar skills and are quicker on the gun to use them? Are other players quicker to offer up ideas and solutions to problems before she is?

Talk to her outside the game, be direct, "Hey, I noticed you using Force Move a lot and you seemed bored with what was going on in the game, is there a problem?"

Arguably, using the Force basically sets off a "ping" which nearby force-sensitives can detect. The more pings, the greater the accuracy. And she might not just be attracting evil force users, maybe she'll attract force-sensitive creatures as well.

Provided that the game actually allows her to do it, I wouldn't impose any mechanical penalties on her for doing it. But the first time someone shows up (good, bad or otherwise) and says "I felt you through the force." it might make her realize it. I'd certainly build up to that slowly though. Attract some annoying critters first who may interfere in the party's objectives, make it clear by their behaviour that they are drawn to her every time she uses a Force power. If that's not enough, up the ante, bring in some creatures that actually call for a fight. If that doesn't cut it, bring out some Red Blades.

Just my opinion, but such things should be primarily done for the fun of the game and not as a way to curtail the behavior of the PC.

...and also not as a way to fix an easily abused and potentially overpowered game mechanic. Certainly there can be social consequences just as there would be for any Force trick, but using it as an "after the fact" fix for a situation that has grown out of a mechanical imbalance seems unfair.

To quote GM-Phil, "Hit them in the dump stat!

Focus several encounters on where she is weakest, where move won't save her arse. Invent some scenarios where other force powers would assist, in order to allow her to use her investment in force points in something else.

Having an issue at the moment where a force sensitive character is using thier move power constantly.

Every attack. Every time something needs to be moved. Shes bored.

Any ideas on how to curb the constant use?

More details of the character and the scenarios is necessary before I'd be willing to say good or bad personally. Is a Smuggler or Bounty Hunter wrong if they take out their blasters and shoot at every adversary?

Dead people are not wrong nor right. They are just dead. A smuggler with that attitude is a deadman walking. And now back to the topic.

Outside of the "using the force for personal gain" and the potential for conflict, there is little wrong with using the force to solve all problems. You do see Anakin using move for daily life stuff without hesitation and completely natural. You do see Yoda and other Jedi in TCW doing the same, sometimes even for mundane task if it benefits everyone.

Others have mentioned "hit them at their dumb stat", if it bothers you that your encounters don't work well against move then adjusting the design is indeed a good idea though usually a simple guy with a lightsaber and force leap is enough to render alone ineffective. And if you want to be downright mean you bring the vehicles. "Everything your dark jedi can do, my twin laser cannon can do better." - "No it can't - Yes, it can ." Fires the cannon and roles 180 damage …

Still at first glance I don't see the issue of using the force constantly, especially not in combat. There is a whole spec which is all about using the force instead of a lightsaber for offense and keeping the lightsaber just as defensive tool.

If this were me I would solve it by having someone report her to the ISB and throwing a very difficult encounter at the party or even potentially to the Inquisitorius. Engineer the encounter so they barely escape intact if you can. Make it so her face is known in Imperial space and that it is not safe for her to openly travel there any more.

She will learn that he powers are dangerous to her and her fellow party members and shouldn't be used so flippantly :P

I know this might seem harsh but it could also provide an interesting narrative drive and a really good way to help her develop her character.

If this were me I would solve it by having someone report her to the ISB and throwing a very difficult encounter at the party or even potentially to the Inquisitorius. Engineer the encounter so they barely escape intact if you can. Make it so her face is known in Imperial space and that it is not safe for her to openly travel there any more.

She will learn that he powers are dangerous to her and her fellow party members and shouldn't be used so flippantly :P

I know this might seem harsh but it could also provide an interesting narrative drive and a really good way to help her develop her character.

Now that is a given anyway imho. Force Users are witches and there is a witch hunt going on after the great jedi purge, and a witch hunter who pays handsome bounties and has an inquisition running …

… move proves to be have a rather low efficiency against inquisitors. Now disrupters at the other hand … they have a harsh and really disarming effect against most of them.

The whole theme of force and destiny within the imperial rule is that force users are fugitives on the run who do what they can while avoiding persecution and persecutors as good as they can.

Take Rebels as example. Kannan goes so far to disassemble his lightsaber to hide it and uses in the early episodes for the most part his blaster instead of his lightsaber, all to stay hidden and keep a low profile. Though once the cat is out of the bag there is no holding back … and inquisitor are nearly immediately on their tails.

It won't necessarily just be the Empire that might want to get their hands on a Force wielder. A crime lord, especially one of the Hutt lords what with their penchant for slavery and innate resistance to certain Force powers, might take a shine to the idea of chaining a "Force witch" or "wizard" and trying to coerce their service. Or perhaps even more dire, imagine an unethical corporate scientist who wants to do experiments on someone with Force potential, secure in the knowledge they can always turn the subject over to the Empire if they become too bothersome.

Heck, I can even imagine the Rebels taking note of an unaligned person making casual use of the Force and assuming the PC must be an agent of the Inquisitorius or Vader travelling incognito, and that assumption could lead to trouble of various stripes as well.

Isn't there a side bar in the Force Section of all 3 books that has something about a Discipline check for force powers? Also, like selling realesate the force is all about conflict, conflict, conflict.