So, the card Surveillance Operatives:

Is that as good as it seems? I mean, can you interrupt an attack and move the target out of LOS? That seems pretty strong...

Yup. Live it up.

It's a deplete, so not quite as strong as you'd think. Plus its a reward...

Yup. It costs 3 influence and a win of a mission. I haven't played Infiltrated, so I can't say about the difficulty though.

Yup. It costs 3 influence and a win of a mission. I haven't played Infiltrated, so I can't say about the difficulty though.

What are the exact timing if a Rebel is attacking?

a) IP must play BEFORE rebel declares an attack

b) IP can use it after Rebels declare an attack, but before rolling. Rebel do not loses the action if target goes out LOS

c) IP can use it after Rebels declare an attack, but before rolling. Rebel LOSES the action if target goes out LOS. (we play this).

d) IP can use it in ANY moment, also after dice are rolled. Rebel LOSES the action if target goes out LOS.

Thank you!

I'm pretty sure if the rebel declares an attack, the action is already gone, regardless if dice are rolled or not, anything that prevents the attack occurring will not refund the action spent.

The Imperial player can use it at any time he wants to "During any activation, interrupt" For example he could do it during his own activation of Stormtroopers to move them all next to each other to benefit from rerolls before they attack. Or during an elite officer activation to move either the officer or troopers to move to a more convenient location before doing an attack order.

I'm assuming you can use this on a trooper that has activated to interrupt his own activation and do a move without spending an action?

There's an existing ruling for Environmental Hazard Suit (which ruling I and Clipper do not like) which allows to deplete it during an attack. It would suggest that you could deplete Surveillance Operatives at any time, even after seeing the rolled dice.

There's an existing ruling for Environmental Hazard Suit (which ruling I and Clipper do not like) which allows to deplete it during an attack. It would suggest that you could deplete Surveillance Operatives at any time, even after seeing the rolled dice.

How come that you don't like it? I think using it just before getting wounded is a perfect time.

There's an existing ruling for Environmental Hazard Suit (which ruling I and Clipper do not like) which allows to deplete it during an attack. It would suggest that you could deplete Surveillance Operatives at any time, even after seeing the rolled dice.

This brings up an interesting one then Albert, at that stage you've already gone through the "check line of sight" step, so potentially (i think this would be the case) you COULD do that, but you'd run round the corner then still take whatever damage was rolled?

Just thinking out loud, but I think that's how it'd work?

You'd absolutely be able to do it after "Declare an attack" though, and run out of los for a loss of a Rebel action

Hmm, interesting... you can move, but still take damage. Maybe use it to block something like cleave or blast, or Verena's ability...

If an interrupt makes the current action or ability invalid, that effect is not resolved. Any costs used to resolve that effect are still paid.

This should cover losing line of sight in the middle of the attack.

You may find it explicitly specified in some of the expansion rule sheets, but I don't have then with me at work.

There's an existing ruling for Environmental Hazard Suit (which ruling I and Clipper do not like) which allows to deplete it during an attack. It would suggest that you could deplete Surveillance Operatives at any time, even after seeing the rolled dice.

How come that you don't like it? I think using it just before getting wounded is a perfect time.

Because the activating figure can use non-action during-activation abilities only before or after actions, not during, so it would be cleaner if the same applies to other figures. On the other hand, the restriction is only to the activating figure, and Env.Hazard Suit does not specify "during an activation", so it can also be used when no activation is happening (Probe Droid bombs with Self-Destruct).

If an interrupt makes the current action or ability invalid, that effect is not resolved. Any costs used to resolve that effect are still paid.

This should cover losing line of sight in the middle of the attack.

You may find it explicitly specified in some of the expansion rule sheets, but I don't have then with me at work.

As people have pointed out, this implies some strange things - like, during an attack, you have to constantly check that your target is still in your LOS and on the map. What is the timing for those checks? After every single other step? Could this interrupt be used after modifiers are applied, but before taking damage? That's a little weird, especially from a thematic perspective...

As people have pointed out, this implies some strange things - like, during an attack, you have to constantly check that your target is still in your LOS and on the map. What is the timing for those checks? After every single other step? Could this interrupt be used after modifiers are applied, but before taking damage? That's a little weird, especially from a thematic perspective...

Yes, it does imply strange things. But so does a hero seeing that an attack would wound or withdraw him, then decide to recover 5 damage.

You don't need to check after each step. You check only when an interrupt has happened that the current action is still valid. (Sort of like Relentless defeating your target figure.)

Another source that abort actions would be the activating hero being defeated - which ends the activation immediately. (Could happen from Keep the Peace in the middle of an action and from bleeding at the end of an action.)

I think the specification of timing of abilities have gotten better since core and Twin Shadows, so we don't have many of these issues in the game.

Well easiest is to know that if the battlefield changes, you check again. In most cases it should be pretty evident what the situation is.

But I am curious in this case, if you've calculated the steps of the attack all the way to just before taking damage, with all the modifiers and such, and then interupt to move the trooper out of line of sight, does it negate everything else - so any abilities used during the attack become used but wasted? That would really suck for the heroes if they've just expended a few of their deplete options or more expensive abilities. But of course they also know you have that card and should calculate accordingly?

Well easiest is to know that if the battlefield changes, you check again. In most cases it should be pretty evident what the situation is.

But I am curious in this case, if you've calculated the steps of the attack all the way to just before taking damage, with all the modifiers and such, and then interupt to move the trooper out of line of sight, does it negate everything else - so any abilities used during the attack become used but wasted? That would really suck for the heroes if they've just expended a few of their deplete options or more expensive abilities. But of course they also know you have that card and should calculate accordingly?

Then what do you do? Never use any of your abilities until they use Surveillance Operatives? The Imperials can just leave it hanging over your heads the whole game, and if you ever commit anything, they can use it. Then you can act freely, of course, but they're guaranteed to get you to waste something. Not to mention the insanity of pausing after every step of every action to see if the Imperials want to interrupt to use it...

We might houserule it to limit the timing windows where you can use it, just for sanity's sake. It could really bog down your game to have that constantly hanging overhead.

There's an existing ruling for Environmental Hazard Suit (which ruling I and Clipper do not like) which allows to deplete it during an attack. It would suggest that you could deplete Surveillance Operatives at any time, even after seeing the rolled dice.

How come that you don't like it? I think using it just before getting wounded is a perfect time.

Because the activating figure can use non-action during-activation abilities only before or after actions, not during, so it would be cleaner if the same applies to other figures. On the other hand, the restriction is only to the activating figure, and Env.Hazard Suit does not specify "during an activation", so it can also be used when no activation is happening (Probe Droid bombs with Self-Destruct).

Where do you read that "the activating figure can use non-action during-activation abilities only before or after actions, not during"?

I would suggest the now-standard "At the start of any activation".

Where do you read that "the activating figure can use non-action during-activation abilities only before or after actions, not during"?

An ability that can be used 'during your activation' can be used before or after performing an action during an activation. It cannot be used while resolving an action.

I.e. During your action you can't spend movement points, you can't suffer strain to gain movement points, you can't Force Throw, give device tokens with Battle Technician, Rallying Shout, Supply Network, Bacta Injector, Combat Override, Scout's Guidance, Force Speed, Radiant Holocron, Adrenal Stim, Bacta Infusion, Grappling Hook. You can only do those before or after actions.

However, because these are not actions, you don't need to end movement to perform these, so you can occupy a space with another figure while doing these.

But it does specifically say interrupt, and there's plenty of abilities that interrupt actions. But I could see it as an argument against the hazard suit.

(Btw, I was just answering the specific question of where the rule is, not arguing why I thought the Environmental Hazard Suit was an unexpected ruling.)

Where do you read that "the activating figure can use non-action during-activation abilities only before or after actions, not during"?

An ability that can be used 'during your activation' can be used before or after performing an action during an activation. It cannot be used while resolving an action.

I.e. During your action you can't spend movement points, you can't suffer strain to gain movement points, you can't Force Throw, give device tokens with Battle Technician, Rallying Shout, Supply Network, Bacta Injector, Combat Override, Scout's Guidance, Force Speed, Radiant Holocron, Adrenal Stim, Bacta Infusion, Grappling Hook. You can only do those before or after actions.

However, because these are not actions, you don't need to end movement to perform these, so you can occupy a space with another figure while doing these.

Well, that makes sense to me. Even though the Env. Haz. Suit ruling seems to contradict this, we'll probably play that the rule extends to:

"An ability that can be used 'during your (or "any", or "an opponent's") activation' can be used before or after performing an action during an activation. It cannot be used while resolving an action an action is being resolved ."

It doesn't seem to make sense that this restriction would be lifted when it is not your activation. I think I'd rather play that way for both Env. Haz. Suit and Surveillance Operatives; it seems like that would resolve some annoying scenarios and reduce some of the analysis paralysis potential (especially of Surveillance Operatives). I'll probably try applying this rule whenever "during any activation" comes up, and see if it sorts out the issues that might arise.

Personally, in our play groups for the campaign, we err towards more fun by having more toys, than less. So I wouldn't see any need to restrict either of them.

Personally, in our play groups for the campaign, we err towards more fun by having more toys, than less. So I wouldn't see any need to restrict either of them.

I think both are quite powerful even with the timing restriction, and I think it will be more fun if less time is spent figuring out complicated (and frustrating) timing windows for activating abilities.

There's an existing ruling for Environmental Hazard Suit (which ruling I and Clipper do not like) which allows to deplete it during an attack. It would suggest that you could deplete Surveillance Operatives at any time, even after seeing the rolled dice.

Surveillance Operatives timing is "during any activation" while Env. Hazard doesn't specify anything

Could this difference change anything about the timing?

As far as i can understand, it seems IP can wait to see the roll (if good or bad) and then decide if move and exit from LoS or not. right?