I vacillate on whether to go full VSD2 with this title or just keep it on the VSD1. What are your thoughts? I know the title is expensive, so that is not the feedback I'm looking for here.

I only ever use it on a VSD-1.

Gives me Mid-Range additional punch when I'm still out of Black.

Adds vital blue-acc Generation to Black Range.

Adding Blues to a VSD-2 just seems... Naff. You're not getting any bonus over what you normally have. You don't need additional ACC generation typically, and the additional damage doesn't warrant it.

VSD-1.

Its my opinion ( A Minority opinion I know) that the VSD1 is too expensive. Slow and Short range isn't any good on my table. The VSDII is all I play, and it works well with the Dominator Title.

I only ever use it on a VSD-1.

Gives me Mid-Range additional punch when I'm still out of Black.

Adds vital blue-acc Generation to Black Range.

Adding Blues to a VSD-2 just seems... Naff. You're not getting any bonus over what you normally have. You don't need additional ACC generation typically, and the additional damage doesn't warrant it.

VSD-1.

How do you outfit the Dominator? Do you leave it naked, or....?

I don't bother with much else beyond that. I want to keep them cheap, and I like going for a sleeker battle build.

I havn't done it in Wave 4 yet, but I'd consider a typical - APT, XI7 and Fire Control.

APT or ACM? I've been having better luck with my VSD's all outfitted with ACMs lately, but I'm still very green.

SW7 + Dominator on a VSD 2 is something special. It is here to play... Just usually not here to stay.

Agreeing with Dras on the VSD-I synopsis. You get an ISD-I front arc (at a cost, ouch) once you hit medium range or closer and significantly improve your odds of rolling an accuracy, which your black and red dice appreciate

I can see it being useful on both VSD1 and VSD2, essentially its about the needs of your fleet - does it need ISD1 at a discount or ISD2 at a discount.

In either case, either put Wulff on it, or bring an interdoctor and place Aresko on it. And if you bring control shenanigans with you, VSD I is definitely the way to go.

But I think it really does depend on the other ships and commander you're bringing with. VSD II is nice because you could take leading shots, but VSD I would benefit more from OEs (at the cost of gunnery teams, which are more effective on II-class). And the way you plan to get your opponent into the front arc depends largely on the other ships you're bringing with.

In either case, either put Wulff on it, or bring an interdoctor and place Aresko on it. And if you bring control shenanigans with you, VSD I is definitely the way to go.

But I think it really does depend on the other ships and commander you're bringing with. VSD II is nice because you could take leading shots, but VSD I would benefit more from OEs (at the cost of gunnery teams, which are more effective on II-class). And the way you plan to get your opponent into the front arc depends largely on the other ships you're bringing with.

I find Screed works better with VSD-I & ACM than than OE, especially with the side arc only having one black die. When I don't run Screed, those all-important black die shots don't always trigger the ACM. I'm also wondering if Fire Control Team might be a better Weapons Team choice with this combination. I'm interested in your thoughts.

In either case, either put Wulff on it, or bring an interdoctor and place Aresko on it. And if you bring control shenanigans with you, VSD I is definitely the way to go.

But I think it really does depend on the other ships and commander you're bringing with. VSD II is nice because you could take leading shots, but VSD I would benefit more from OEs (at the cost of gunnery teams, which are more effective on II-class). And the way you plan to get your opponent into the front arc depends largely on the other ships you're bringing with.

I find Screed works better with VSD-I & ACM than than OE, especially with the side arc only having one black die. When I don't run Screed, those all-important black die shots don't always trigger the ACM. I'm also wondering if Fire Control Team might be a better Weapons Team choice with this combination. I'm interested in your thoughts.

I see that as a very viable option. Especially having Dominator on there, which would enable you to increase damage output to activate that second critical effect. XX9 would also seem to be a solid investment, but then you are probably overspending at that point. Without, it's running at 94 points.

Perhaps H9s would be good with this as well, so you could always ensure at least 1 blue accuracy, which helps with flotillas. 102 points, almost 30 over the 73 point base.

The thing about FCTs is that you don't get Gunnery Teams, but I suppose that's more of a boon for Warlord.

Dras probably has much keener insights.

Keener? No, not really. I'm all about Rules.

It smacks to me though, that it basically boils down to what you want to accomplish with your Shot.

You've got a Vic-I, which means most of your damage potential is at close Range.... Gunnery Teams doesn'ts eem like a great pick at that point, because you have to ask yourself - what Self-Respecting opponent is going to let you get a VICTORY at close range to TWO Ships at the same time in its front arc?

I mean, it happens, but its more luck than skill to me.

So, it comes down to the fact you're going to have 1 Awesome Shot. Its probably 3 Reds and 4 Blacks since you have a Confire.... But you're looking at what you might be able to do...

Two slots are pertinent on the Vic 1, when we stuff Fire Control in teh Gunny slot, and that's the only 2 slots that will Generate Critical Effects - Ordnance and Turbolaser.

Turbolaser, our only crticial effect is XX9s over Default. But, we do know we can stack criticals with the Ordnance... So again, it comes down to, "I have 7 Dice, with an average of about 6 Damage..."

What can you do with 6 Damage, including a Critical Effect.

If you're all about Burrowing through to the Hull, and Maximising as much hull damage as possible, then look at XI7s and APTs... You're putting a face up on things straight away, you're able to limit the redirect to 1, so you hopefully punch through to the hull with your Raw damage and get a second face up through the Default Critical.

If you're just caring about how much damage you can put out, and don't care about the rest of it, you're probably best off with ACMs in some configuration - it ladels on more Raw damage, but doesn't neccessarily let you plant it all on the same zone - in fact, its designed to ladel it on - great when you're finishing off an enemy ship... I'd probably go for ACMs and XX9s at that point, and look to be a Finisher, rather than an Opener...

But Dominator is equally useful in either sense, because that's where your ACCs are going to come from to lock down Braces...

But of course, that's all assuming the Victory I.

If you're looking at a Victory II, you start getting more away from the "Raw Damage" towards the "Control and Setup" phase, with a single Exception.

Ion Cannon batteries and XI7s is a fantastic way to basically just Drill a hull zone and not care about anything... Its more likely to go on a Liberty when you can follow it up with Fire Control and XX9s for even more fun faceups, but meh. It still works.

But Overload Pulse, NK-7s, and MS-1s are all about control, they're about messing with your opponent in ways that lets someone else do the hefty damage, rather than yourself... Which is why I don't rate it as much, as I feel I start telegraphing my activation order.

Sure, OLP is Fantastic when it hits a ship right before Avenger does... but al my enemy has to do is pressure Avenger and the combination is much more useless.

Anyhow, Rambled.

Insights perhaps.

But certainly not Keen.

Rather Dull.

Oh I assumed X17s because it's the only way to get to the hull on that close range shot. I do like the ACM's though, as they help with the second arc shot or the other ships to hammer away. ACMs do work well when you fly 3 Vic-I's in formation.

In either case, either put Wulff on it, or bring an interdoctor and place Aresko on it. And if you bring control shenanigans with you, VSD I is definitely the way to go.

But I think it really does depend on the other ships and commander you're bringing with. VSD II is nice because you could take leading shots, but VSD I would benefit more from OEs (at the cost of gunnery teams, which are more effective on II-class). And the way you plan to get your opponent into the front arc depends largely on the other ships you're bringing with.

I find Screed works better with VSD-I & ACM than than OE, especially with the side arc only having one black die. When I don't run Screed, those all-important black die shots don't always trigger the ACM. I'm also wondering if Fire Control Team might be a better Weapons Team choice with this combination. I'm interested in your thoughts.

I see that as a very viable option. Especially having Dominator on there, which would enable you to increase damage output to activate that second critical effect. XX9 would also seem to be a solid investment, but then you are probably overspending at that point. Without, it's running at 94 points.

Perhaps H9s would be good with this as well, so you could always ensure at least 1 blue accuracy, which helps with flotillas. 102 points, almost 30 over the 73 point base.

The thing about FCTs is that you don't get Gunnery Teams, but I suppose that's more of a boon for Warlord.

Dras probably has much keener insights.

If you have a black critical effect (ACM or APT), you can just use the standard critical effect with the Fire control team. Then you can equp the X17's, right?

So not specifically about Dominator but about VSD 1 and gunnery Teams.

I totally agree that VSD1s and Gunnery Teams DO NOT mix. However, one of the first things I want to try out with Mon JerJer is three VSD1s with Gunnery Teams and Spinal Armaments. Being able to throw 5/4 Reds out each with Con fires and the ability to pivot is going to feel great.

They'll probably lose, but it is going to feel great.

In either case, either put Wulff on it, or bring an interdoctor and place Aresko on it. And if you bring control shenanigans with you, VSD I is definitely the way to go.

But I think it really does depend on the other ships and commander you're bringing with. VSD II is nice because you could take leading shots, but VSD I would benefit more from OEs (at the cost of gunnery teams, which are more effective on II-class). And the way you plan to get your opponent into the front arc depends largely on the other ships you're bringing with.

I find Screed works better with VSD-I & ACM than than OE, especially with the side arc only having one black die. When I don't run Screed, those all-important black die shots don't always trigger the ACM. I'm also wondering if Fire Control Team might be a better Weapons Team choice with this combination. I'm interested in your thoughts.

I see that as a very viable option. Especially having Dominator on there, which would enable you to increase damage output to activate that second critical effect. XX9 would also seem to be a solid investment, but then you are probably overspending at that point. Without, it's running at 94 points.

Perhaps H9s would be good with this as well, so you could always ensure at least 1 blue accuracy, which helps with flotillas. 102 points, almost 30 over the 73 point base.

The thing about FCTs is that you don't get Gunnery Teams, but I suppose that's more of a boon for Warlord.

Dras probably has much keener insights.

If you have a black critical effect (ACM or APT), you can just use the standard critical effect with the Fire control team. Then you can equp the X17's, right?

Yes. You can activate ACM and a standard crit with FCT. The XX9s would probably be less efficient than Xi7, I just rarely include those in my designs.

Though I'd rather take something other than Xi7 with ACM. You're depleting their shields anyways. HTTs would probably be better, but I'd also strongly consider H9 for an extra 2 points for the reasons above. Guaranteed accuracy.

I believe Dras had a more optimal setup concerning Xi7 with APTs, and it's cheaper. But ACM with HTT would deal more damage, while H9s combined w/Dominator would ensure the accuracy.

So not specifically about Dominator but about VSD 1 and gunnery Teams.

I totally agree that VSD1s and Gunnery Teams DO NOT mix. However, one of the first things I want to try out with Mon JerJer is three VSD1s with Gunnery Teams and Spinal Armaments. Being able to throw 5/4 Reds out each with Con fires and the ability to pivot is going to feel great.

They'll probably lose, but it is going to feel great.

VSD-Is and Gunnery Teams do in fact mix once you slap Spinal Armaments on them. Tried it out a few weeks back and was really surprised at how much mileage I was getting out of them while being cagey and Navigating constantly to keep things in the front arcs. Add Intel Officers there as well to make those red dice stick better, though.

If you have a black critical effect (ACM or APT), you can just use the standard critical effect with the Fire control team. Then you can equp the X17's, right?

Yes. You can activate ACM and a standard crit with FCT. The XX9s would probably be less efficient than Xi7, I just rarely include those in my designs.

Though I'd rather take something other than Xi7 with ACM. You're depleting their shields anyways. HTTs would probably be better, but I'd also strongly consider H9 for an extra 2 points for the reasons above. Guaranteed accuracy.

I believe Dras had a more optimal setup concerning Xi7 with APTs, and it's cheaper. But ACM with HTT would deal more damage, while H9s combined w/Dominator would ensure the accuracy.

Why would HTT deal more damage? The chance of having a single accuracy is pretty high, and most ships (Neb-B a notable exception) only have one brace token. Both rebel and imperial ships have multiple redirect tokens. Also, the HTT's are more expensive than the X17's. Accuracy the brace and most damage goes to the single hull zone. The ACM just helps to bleed the other sides a bit, setting up a second attack from another hull zone or another ship.

Also, the HTT's are more expensive than the X17's.

Actually, they're exactly the same Cost.

Y'know, don't disagree with the rest of what you said.

But, Y'know, there's that.

Also, the HTT's are more expensive than the X17's.

Actually, they're exactly the same Cost.

Y'know, don't disagree with the rest of what you said.

But, Y'know, there's that.

Tis what I get for trusting my memory....I hate getting older

Also, the HTT's are more expensive than the X17's.

Actually, they're exactly the same Cost.

Y'know, don't disagree with the rest of what you said.

But, Y'know, there's that.

Because some of the most popular ships (and all of the strongest, except Liberty which has redundant braces) usually have ECMs. So they can both brace and redirect.

With Xi7s, they cut damage in half and move 1 damage off target

With HTTs, they can either cut damage in half (1 more damage on target than Xi7), or cut damage by one and redirect 2-3 damage (reduced because of ACM). More overall damage in either scenario

I have used that title on both. But have found it deadly with a VSD1 with Expanded Launchers and X17 with an Interdictor feeding it shields and using Target Scrambers to help keep it alive. Once it gets into black range that is 10 dice you are rolling. Add in either Vet Gunners for rerolls , OE or Vader and just melt face...

Also, the HTT's are more expensive than the X17's.

Actually, they're exactly the same Cost.

Y'know, don't disagree with the rest of what you said.

But, Y'know, there's that.

Because some of the most popular ships (and all of the strongest, except Liberty which has redundant braces) usually have ECMs. So they can both brace and redirect.

With Xi7s, they cut damage in half and move 1 damage off target

With HTTs, they can either cut damage in half (1 more damage on target than Xi7), or cut damage by one and redirect 2-3 damage (reduced because of ACM). More overall damage in either scenario

In that sense HTT does more than XI7. However it doesn't work on braceless ships like mc30 and cr90. While XI7 doesn't work on raider and neb. It seems as though they were made as cousins, with each being useful in general except against some ships, rather than one being more potent than another. When it comes down to equipping, maybe consider what ships the vsd is likely to face and arm respectively.

Very great point, above. And that's where it goes back to Dras' comparison: Apt with Xi7 or ACM with HTT. One is fantastic at killing small ships with low hull, the other is great for taking down large ships with high hull. 2 points of difference.

Though I would still argue that ACMs help against those smaller ships without the brace. The extra damage to shields with ACMs really reduces the effect of a redirect. Xi7s would just be slightly redundant on the first crit, and then really redundant on the second crit (assuming no Advanced Projectors).