Ketsu Onyo (38)Veteran Instincts (1)Dengar (3)Inertial Dampeners (1)Inertial Dampeners (1)Shadow Caster (3)Binayre Pirate (12)Black Market Slicer Tools (1)Binayre Pirate (12)Black Market Slicer Tools (1)Binayre Pirate (12)Black Market Slicer Tools (1)Binayre Pirate (12)Black Market Slicer Tools (1)Total: 99
I want to try this list. Any advice on how to fly it? Place in the corner? Asteroid placement? Just curious.
As with most "big ship + Zs" the big ship is the big target. The Zs form the front line, disrupt the enemy's movements and then the big guy comes in to clean up. If the enemy kills the Shadowcaster very fast, the Zs will struggle against any ace.
Edited by The InquisitorThat doesn't make sense with the Ketsu build, though. Ketsu wants to be the front line to go for the bumpage. That way the Z-95's can get shots on whomever Ketsu bumps.
I'm excited to try Ketsu and IG88B w/an HLC. I ran an IG/Latts build to decent effect previously, and Ketsu is even more exciting because you give up less to get a similar effect (granted it's a bit tougher to set-up).
That doesn't make sense with the Ketsu build, though. Ketsu wants to be the front line to go for the bumpage. That way the Z-95's can get shots on whomever Ketsu bumps.
Can Ketsu use the tractor trick even if another ship bumped her? Played three games last night and got absolutely trounced in all three. First time vs the Shadow Caster and it was very unpleasant.
That doesn't make sense with the Ketsu build, though. Ketsu wants to be the front line to go for the bumpage. That way the Z-95's can get shots on whomever Ketsu bumps.
Can Ketsu use the tractor trick even if another ship bumped her? Played three games last night and got absolutely trounced in all three. First time vs the Shadow Caster and it was very unpleasant.
Yup. Any ship in her front arc at range 1. Bumped in the front arc is still in arc at range 1. (Assuming she has her mobile arc forward of course to have the ship in both arcs. If its to the side, anything on that corner to be in both arc)
Edited by VanderLegionThat doesn't make sense with the Ketsu build, though. Ketsu wants to be the front line to go for the bumpage. That way the Z-95's can get shots on whomever Ketsu bumps.
Can Ketsu use the tractor trick even if another ship bumped her? Played three games last night and got absolutely trounced in all three. First time vs the Shadow Caster and it was very unpleasant.
Yup. Any ship in her front arc at range 1. Bumped in the front arc is still in arc at range 1. (Assuming she has her mobile arc forward of course to have the ship in both arcs. If its to the side, anything on that corner to be in both arc)
This is almost ridiculously op. Tractor-boost-kill.
I've been playing Ketsu with Kath and found them very fun to fly. Probably not the most competitive list, but not bad either.
That doesn't make sense with the Ketsu build, though. Ketsu wants to be the front line to go for the bumpage. That way the Z-95's can get shots on whomever Ketsu bumps.
Can Ketsu use the tractor trick even if another ship bumped her? Played three games last night and got absolutely trounced in all three. First time vs the Shadow Caster and it was very unpleasant.
Yup. Any ship in her front arc at range 1. Bumped in the front arc is still in arc at range 1. (Assuming she has her mobile arc forward of course to have the ship in both arcs. If its to the side, anything on that corner to be in both arc)
This is almost ridiculously op. Tractor-boost-kill.
It's quite deadly. Flew a triple defender list against ketsu/asajj the other day, and it's really hard when she moves last and you really don't want to be in her range 1 bubble and can't block her to avoid it. I had it good for a few rounds after my opponent switched ketsus arc to the side to get shots one round so i was able to block a few times. Then I missed a block, arc went back forward, and things went south again.
I've been running Ketsu with Latts Razzi flying the yv.
Ketsu with VI, dengar, title, engine and some illicits (currently dampeners and glitterstim)
Latts with Bossk, Gunner, K4, Burnout SLAM
Leaves me at 96 points right now, haven't decided if I want something else in there. I originally had rigged cargo on both ships, slcicer tools on ketsu and APL on latts. Never dropped the cargo, since ketsu wants stuff in front of her (and cargo generally seems easiest to use by moving first and dropping it on someone's head), and latts doesn't really want stuff behind her if at all possible. Dropped slicer tools since they're mostly useful against aces and dengaroo, which the list is already designed to be good against. Figured ID are good if there's a raound that someone ends up right in front of me, I can just park and blast em again. Glitterstim since I'm frequently gonna be right in someones face so I can get some focuses. Dropped APL since I'd never triggered it since again, I don't fly latts to be in the thick of things, I try to keep her back and slow-roll as long as possible. Burnout slam gives her the ability to turn around once at least.
Basic strategy Ketsu jumps into range 1, tractors someone, blasts them with 4 attack dice while latts drops their agility so they're at -2 agility. Ketsu (generally) hits, gives them another tractor token so latts also gets to shoot against -2 agility. If she manages to miss, she gets to try again with focus/TL.
You read my mind! Dirty but fun. 
That doesn't make sense with the Ketsu build, though. Ketsu wants to be the front line to go for the bumpage. That way the Z-95's can get shots on whomever Ketsu bumps.
Can Ketsu use the tractor trick even if another ship bumped her? Played three games last night and got absolutely trounced in all three. First time vs the Shadow Caster and it was very unpleasant.
Yup. Any ship in her front arc at range 1. Bumped in the front arc is still in arc at range 1. (Assuming she has her mobile arc forward of course to have the ship in both arcs. If its to the side, anything on that corner to be in both arc)
This is almost ridiculously op. Tractor-boost-kill.
Well, yes. It can be quite deadly. So, no matter whom is bumping whom, you get to Tractor Beam them for -1 Agility. Then, you get to Barrel Roll them away from touching to fire at them. If they hit you, then they have no tokens. If you hit them with your attack, they get another -1 Agility. That's where all those Z-95's are effective. Even they can hit Stealth Soontir with -2 Agility! Well, some of them. You can go for four Z-95's or you can go for three with Missiles. You would need the TL beforehand, but if you have it, then 3 Concussion Missiles with GC. Pretty nasty.
So, it will take a few games for people to realize what Ketsu does, but they will adjust for it. If people see Ketsu, they can expect she's going to race out for the bumpage. It will really hurt people at first, but it can be avoided. The approach will be hard for some ships. Still, it's nice to see a large based ship that wants to go fast that then likes to get into bumpage. Pick a target and zoom for it!
I did just think of something. If you happen to bump your own ship, you can can Tractor Beam it! It doesn't say an enemy ship. Sure, they get the -1 to Agility, but it might be better if you want to Boost or BR them out of arc or something. Kind of crazy, but kind of funny, too. Maybe there was a bump train and they bumped an enemy and you bumped him. So, your other ship can't fire as it's touching, but the other ship can't be BR due to other ships or asteroids or something. You can Tractor your own ship to BR backwards to be able to fire. You can then fire regular 4 red dice at the enemy. Maybe the enemy decides to fire at the Z since it's -1 Agility. That's not too bad, either! Then, as long as the Z is still alive, it can then fire at R1!
Ketsu Onyo (38)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Dengar (3)
Inertial Dampeners (1)
Inertial Dampeners (1)
Shadow Caster (3)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Total: 99
You guys have almost talked me into possibly adding another large block of crack to my collection; scum none the less....crazy....but I have the Z-95s from my dual Most-Wanted purchases, and if I can fly this ship to grab Rebel Scum within my firing arcs, then wow!
This ship easy to move?
Ketsu Onyo (38)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Dengar (3)
Inertial Dampeners (1)
Inertial Dampeners (1)
Shadow Caster (3)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Total: 99
You guys have almost talked me into possibly adding another large block of crack to my collection; scum none the less....crazy....but I have the Z-95s from my dual Most-Wanted purchases, and if I can fly this ship to grab Rebel Scum within my firing arcs, then wow!
Yeah....I wasn't thinking much of Ketsu when I was thinking of this ship. I was thinking of Ventress. I am really on board with the Ketsu Onyo list above. I like the BMST to be used in case you have a self stressing opponent. It's only 1 pt per Illicit, so I don't feel that it's really wasted if the enemy doesn't have a lot of self stressers. Also....everyone usually takes PTL or some sort of self stresser these days, anyways. Even if it's some weird list that doesn't, ships do red moves on occasion. So, someone K-turns and they might be in a great spot to get sliced!
The only bad news for the above list is that if you want to do tournaments, you will have to buy two Lancer Class Pursuit Craft. You only get 2 BMST in the kit. I'm probably going to proxy.
Man, now I really wish I was going to game night tonight! I've got to watch the kid, so we are going to play some HotAC with a friend. At least now I can eventually upgrade to ARC-170.
I did just think of something. If you happen to bump your own ship, you can can Tractor Beam it! It doesn't say an enemy ship. Sure, they get the -1 to Agility, but it might be better if you want to Boost or BR them out of arc or something. Kind of crazy, but kind of funny, too. Maybe there was a bump train and they bumped an enemy and you bumped him. So, your other ship can't fire as it's touching, but the other ship can't be BR due to other ships or asteroids or something. You can Tractor your own ship to BR backwards to be able to fire. You can then fire regular 4 red dice at the enemy. Maybe the enemy decides to fire at the Z since it's -1 Agility. That's not too bad, either! Then, as long as the Z is still alive, it can then fire at R1!
You may wish to rethink that. Yes, you can actually put a tractor beam token on your own ship. However, if you read the tractor beam information card:
(...)
"The first time a small ship receives a tractor beam token each round, the opposing player may choose one of the following effects:"
(...)
The bold parts are actually in bold in the FAQ (not my doing, lol). So you assign the tractor beam token, but your opponent can decide to leave your ship there or throw it on a rock. Not as much fun as advertised. I think this was done in order to accomodate future expansion, like Unkar Plutt. It's a two edged sword because if you bump him with your own ships then you're in trouble!
Looks nice for surprising your opponent but somehow I'm not sold on a ship with 2 agi that pretty much has to position itself so that the enemy is right in front of her at range 1. Don't get me wrong, if it works, it can be devastating. But off the top of my head I can think of at least several lists that would just roll over Ketsu+Zs. Like, say, Dash + Ghost, triple u-boats, Biggs+Kanaan, even good old Crack swarm. Well flown arc-dodgers might be able to avoid either the primary arc or R1 entirely. Poorly flown arc-dodgers would get trashed obviously, but that's just the thing with poorly flown arc-dodgers.
The thing about dodging a ship with a PS bid of 97 and a mobile arc; arc dodging is not all that easy to do (unless aces want to PS bid all the way to 97 or lower).
I never said anything about dodging the mobile arc. Nor do you need to. Ketsu's ability only works if you get caught in both arcs AND at range 1. That pretty much means you can't joust her. Getting caught in just her auxiliary arc is fine in the sense that it's just a regular 3 red die attack with re-rolls on 2 dice and possibly a focus as well. Good attack, but nothing aces are not used to handling on a regular basis. I used to fly aces lists for quite a while so I can tell you that any experienced ace player has seen "do-not-approach-from-the-front" lists and is used to facing them. Some of them have a much bigger danger zone (stressbot builds) while others are harder to dodge and flank (crack swarms). Good asteroid placement is essential to limit the possible enemy movement. Then, you just divide your force and approach from multiple vectors, running with the ship they go after and killing with the rest. Moving after Ketsu is obviously inconvenient but her large base does limit her options considerably, so you can usually ensure you're not in both her arcs at close range.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it would be an easy match up for aces (it would certainly be one of the more stressful ones), but Ketsu really is gimmicky and you can use the inflexibility of her pilot's ability to negate it's impact. Once Ketsu's nuked down (and she's not exactly the toughest thing out there), you're left facing a Z swarm, which any competent ace player knows how to deal with, even if he lost one of his aces to Ketsu's shenanigans.
That doesn't make sense with the Ketsu build, though. Ketsu wants to be the front line to go for the bumpage. That way the Z-95's can get shots on whomever Ketsu bumps.
Can Ketsu use the tractor trick even if another ship bumped her? Played three games last night and got absolutely trounced in all three. First time vs the Shadow Caster and it was very unpleasant.
Yup. Any ship in her front arc at range 1. Bumped in the front arc is still in arc at range 1. (Assuming she has her mobile arc forward of course to have the ship in both arcs. If its to the side, anything on that corner to be in both arc)
This is almost ridiculously op. Tractor-boost-kill.
Not quite as bad as it sounds. You can't boost (with Engine Upgrade) or Barrel Roll (with Expert Handling) into another ship. You cab SLAM and bump (with Burnout SLAM when it's released), but only once, and then you can't shoot at the target.
Don't get me wrong, the Shadow Caster has a great, fast dial, and you will be able to get the combo off especially with one of the movement mods mentioned above, but it will be tricky to get it to work consistently once people realise it's coming
argh, ignore
Edited by heychadwick
Looks nice for surprising your opponent but somehow I'm not sold on a ship with 2 agi that pretty much has to position itself so that the enemy is right in front of her at range 1. Don't get me wrong, if it works, it can be devastating. But off the top of my head I can think of at least several lists that would just roll over Ketsu+Zs. Like, say, Dash + Ghost, triple u-boats, Biggs+Kanaan, even good old Crack swarm. Well flown arc-dodgers might be able to avoid either the primary arc or R1 entirely. Poorly flown arc-dodgers would get trashed obviously, but that's just the thing with poorly flown arc-dodgers.
The thing about dodging a ship with a PS bid of 97 and a mobile arc; arc dodging is not all that easy to do (unless aces want to PS bid all the way to 97 or lower).
I never said anything about dodging the mobile arc. Nor do you need to. Ketsu's ability only works if you get caught in both arcs AND at range 1. That pretty much means you can't joust her. Getting caught in just her auxiliary arc is fine in the sense that it's just a regular 3 red die attack with re-rolls on 2 dice and possibly a focus as well. Good attack, but nothing aces are not used to handling on a regular basis. I used to fly aces lists for quite a while so I can tell you that any experienced ace player has seen "do-not-approach-from-the-front" lists and is used to facing them. Some of them have a much bigger danger zone (stressbot builds) while others are harder to dodge and flank (crack swarms). Good asteroid placement is essential to limit the possible enemy movement. Then, you just divide your force and approach from multiple vectors, running with the ship they go after and killing with the rest. Moving after Ketsu is obviously inconvenient but her large base does limit her options considerably, so you can usually ensure you're not in both her arcs at close range.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it would be an easy match up for aces (it would certainly be one of the more stressful ones), but Ketsu really is gimmicky and you can use the inflexibility of her pilot's ability to negate it's impact. Once Ketsu's nuked down (and she's not exactly the toughest thing out there), you're left facing a Z swarm, which any competent ace player knows how to deal with, even if he lost one of his aces to Ketsu's shenanigans.
That's why I like the 4 x Z-95 with BMST. If you are facing PTL Arc Dodgers, they will have to not only deal with not bumping Ketsu, but they will also have to deal with these annoying little Z's that can dish out the damage without even having you in arc.
That doesn't make sense with the Ketsu build, though. Ketsu wants to be the front line to go for the bumpage. That way the Z-95's can get shots on whomever Ketsu bumps.
Yeah the potential double tractor beam completely change the dynamic of the Z-95 and their red dice efficiency. There is just one problem. Ketsu dies fast and getting the hit for your second token is easier said than done with zero action efficiency as the build needs vi and has no gyroscopic targeting either AND the need to more often than no to change that mobile firing arc via an action.
I think I like the Latts + Ketsu build overall better, because it for sure has an easier time to apply those tokens + the VY hits like a truck regardless.
Flew Ventress last night with VI / BMST / Title / Gyro / Ketsu Crew, along with Fenn w/Fear / AutoT / Title and Serissu (who went poof due to a really bad choice on my part). Fenn is a monster, as we know. Ventress was pretty effective in dishing out stress and tractor beam. If it wasn't for my opponent having a VCX with Kanann around, the stress and tractor would have been far more useful.
Flying a large base at speed 3+ is intimidating but with practice it can be done. I only landed on an obstacle once, and that was from a 5K that I neglected to account for the size of the base...
The Lancer will be part of my Scum build for a bit now I'm feeling.
That doesn't make sense with the Ketsu build, though. Ketsu wants to be the front line to go for the bumpage. That way the Z-95's can get shots on whomever Ketsu bumps.
Yeah the potential double tractor beam completely change the dynamic of the Z-95 and their red dice efficiency. There is just one problem. Ketsu dies fast and getting the hit for your second token is easier said than done with zero action efficiency as the build needs vi and has no gyroscopic targeting either AND the need to more often than no to change that mobile firing arc via an action.
I think I like the Latts + Ketsu build overall better, because it for sure has an easier time to apply those tokens + the VY hits like a truck regardless.
WHo needs action efficiency when you have Scum crew options?
As of now, the go to crew for the Lancer is Dengar. Asajj has use for Latts Razzi for giving a stress to a ship for an evade which helps. Without a way to give stress out, Latts on Ketsu won't work out well enough if you're running VI + Engine.
WHo needs action efficiency when you have Scum crew options?That doesn't make sense with the Ketsu build, though. Ketsu wants to be the front line to go for the bumpage. That way the Z-95's can get shots on whomever Ketsu bumps.
Yeah the potential double tractor beam completely change the dynamic of the Z-95 and their red dice efficiency. There is just one problem. Ketsu dies fast and getting the hit for your second token is easier said than done with zero action efficiency as the build needs vi and has no gyroscopic targeting either AND the need to more often than not to change that mobile firing arc via an action.
I think I like the Latts + Ketsu build overall better, because it for sure has an easier time to apply those tokens + the VY hits like a truck regardless.
I have one crew slot and that's it. Try to hit anything with 3 naked dice + one scum crew helper. It not as reliable as you think, especially if you fail to get that range 1 tractor beam. There are plenty of ships which will try to stay at range 3, because the shadowcaster as anemic damage output at that range.
Dengar crew or K4 Security Droid is enough for most situations, that's why I mention it.
Or ZUckuss, if you don't care about actions, but you might care.