I will say this the af2 is the only ship that works great with all commanders

Not long ago there was a lot of hate for the mc80 and how the guppy was simply more points efficient, more maneuverable and just better in general.

How has that opinion changed?

I'm not sure if that is a rhetorical question or not

My biggest issue with rebel commanders compared to imp commanders is that the rebel commanders are for the most part extremely serialized as far as fleet comp. Whereas the imp commanders are great almost across the board for any ship.

I can't really support this line of argument. It's not greener on the Imperial side:

• Tarkin: doesn't work well with Raiders as they're Command 1 and don't command squadrons well (compared to Gozantis) for squadron tokens or have red dice to use well with Concentrate Fire tokens or have Engineering values worth much for use with Engineering tokens. Not as effective with ISDs (could've had more VSDs for more buckets to collect tokens).
• Motti: Works all right for everything, but generally more effective on heavier ships.
• Screed: Basically useless with Gozantis. Not nearly as appealing for non-black crit effects.
• Vader: a worse Screed on black dice ships (Gladiator, Raider), especially with Ordnance Experts available. Bad with Gozantis.
• Ozzel: awful with VSDs (go from speed 2 to 0!). Slightly better with Interdictors with Nav Teams (can spend a Nav token to change 1 speed and get 1 yaw), but otherwise similarly useless.
• Tagge: non-ideal with Raiders (if you double-use a Brace you're likely near death or dead anyways). Given how frequently the Brace gets locked down on VSDs and how slow they are, iffy there as well.
• Konstantine: getting consistent use from his ability means your small-based ships are best included minimally if at all.

Not long ago there was a lot of hate for the mc80 and how the guppy was simply more points efficient, more maneuverable and just better in general.

How has that opinion changed?

That's what I was thinking when I saw this thread this morning.

I think all of the ships are perfectly playable, and I tend to win with whatever I bring.

That said, AFMK-IIs are not high on my play list, but I think that comes down to style. I ran some this past Monday with Garm and it was fun. I think the key is figuring out what function you want them to play in your fleet and then building strictly to that.

I'm not saying it isn't playable

Its fair to say that. Neither the Liberty nor Transport really work with Ackbar. Then again, Rebel commanders didn't really gain a lot wave 3-4 from the ships.

Dodonna: He didnt gain, but he is sort of the lowest denominator for Rebels. He also cares less about the ship and more about the upgrades.

Garm: sort of gained. Another command 3 ship. He is still usually not a great choice.

Ackbar: Didn't gain. Neither new ship likes him.

Mothma: Gained a little. She likes the flotillas. She also picked up a major competitor in Cracken though.

Dodonna gained a ton from both waves. The Liberty is strong enough to punch into the hull of any ship in one attack, if you build it correctly. 2 turbolaser slots is massive. And you can run bombers with BCC, which synergizes with Dodanna when you get those crits.

I agree about the others.

I would also point out that Rieekan didn't gain anything because he is literally great with anything, and as such is still great with the new stuff. As Undeadguy said, BCC and XI7+XX9 on libs makes Dodonna a happy panda.

Ackbar didn't gain, and that's fine. He already has ships that he loves to use. I personally am not a fan of Ackbar, mostly cause I like running proton torpedo 30s, and if you have proton torps on 30s and aren't trying to double arc, then I don't know what you're doing with your life.

I like mine paired with a Home One MC-80, usually with Rieekan as the Admiral. Spinal seems to be a good way to go for 3 dice all around. Either leave as is as a basic all round ship, or add one or two squadron support upgrades.

They make for solid Flotilla killers this way and can hold their own in the medium ship fights.

Not long ago there was a lot of hate for the mc80 and how the guppy was simply more points efficient, more maneuverable and just better in general.

How has that opinion changed?

It has changed with the release of Flight Commander and Fighter Coordination Team. As much as everyone loves the synergy with these cards on Yavaris, it is the MC80CC that makes better use of them, especially with the new found love for the B-wing squadrons. The MC80 is the only ship in the rebel fleet that has a default squadron value of 4 and has a support team slot available. Being able to push 4 B-wings with FCT is huge!

New found b wing love? Where you been m since wave 1?

New found b wing love? Where you been m since wave 1?

Well...I didn't start playing Armada until Wave 2/ R&V . Since then, all my love has been for the YT-2400.

If I had one, I would use it in the basement to scare away the vermin with it's ugliness...

But facing them I can say they are MUCH harder to kill than the MC30's. 30's have more firepower close in, but without the Brace and only 4 hull, they die so easy as people bring them in close to get that black shot. Especially when I start ramming them.

And that's really the AF2 thing... endurance. Less damage each round, but likely more rounds of fire and more importantly, more rounds of taking fire and activating squadrons.

IMO, it's a draw between the two with the MC30 preferred due to it not looking stupid.

If I had one, I would use it in the basement to scare away the vermin with it's ugliness...

But facing them I can say they are MUCH harder to kill than the MC30's. 30's have more firepower close in, but without the Brace and only 4 hull, they die so easy as people bring them in close to get that black shot. Especially when I start ramming them.

And that's really the AF2 thing... endurance. Less damage each round, but likely more rounds of fire and more importantly, more rounds of taking fire and activating squadrons.

IMO, it's a draw between the two with the MC30 preferred due to it not looking stupid.

If your 30 is getting rammed just practice more that was the trick for me. Also outside of ramming with the correct commander and admonition those things are crazy survivable.

Also against the interdoctor, the damage of multiple turns is not what your want due to its repairing bring so amazing. Burst damage is way better against tank fleets.

This may not be an optimal list, but it is fun to play and to play against.

(I am in the process of acquiring 2 x Keldabe Class Battlecruisers, 2 x Marauder Class Corvettes, 3 stands worth of StarVypers and 2 x X4 Gunships from Shapeways to represent the fleet)

Mandalorien Mercs
Author: Englishpete

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 388/400

Commander: Mon Mothma

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
= 97 total ship cost

Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
= 97 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Leia Organa ( 3 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 49 total ship cost

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Mon Mothma ( 30 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 74 total ship cost

3 X-Wing Squadrons ( 39 points)
2 YT-2400s ( 32 points)