I read somewhere that bears can smell their period. The bears can smell their mensuration

This is just another example of why the X-Wing didn't get another fix in HotR. (Because it doesn't need one.)

"the T-65 doesn't need a fix because my mate flew them and almost won a minor tournament" really doesn't strike me as a compelling argument.

Unfortunatly, to make such a bold claim as 'it doesn't need one', you're going to have to provide actual facts, not anecotes.

Okay, first person who can construct a code (based on the Jedi or Sith code) off of the title of this thread gets a cookie.

There is no meta, only meat.

Eat bacon.

There is no bacon, only bacon smell.

There is bacon, it's under the grill now here

Indeed, non-meta lists can win tournaments precisely because they counter the top meta build!

The only way you can have a 'non-meta list' is if you had someone put together a list with absolutely no knowledge of what other people were likely to play, and effectively no external input into building that list.

Just about anyone can see the value of PtL, but if you read somewhere about how good it is, before you figure that out on your own, you've used the meta in your list.

Anything that counters the top meta builds, is going to be part of the meta just as a matter of simple definition of the term. Because again the only way to truly be outside the meta is by having absolutely no access to outside information which is quite frankly next to impossible.

I read somewhere that bears can smell their period. The bears can smell their mensuration

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

This is just another example of why the X-Wing didn't get another fix in HotR. (Because it doesn't need one.)

"the T-65 doesn't need a fix because my mate flew them and almost won a minor tournament" really doesn't strike me as a compelling argument.

Unfortunatly, to make such a bold claim as 'it doesn't need one', you're going to have to provide actual facts, not anecotes.

No, but the fact that the T-70 will soon have access to some really cheap and efficient Tech items could mean that there isn't a need as much as perceived on one of the whiniest boards on the internet. Can't we just face the fact, that x-wings are not as easy to do well with as "_______" ship, I think that you could fill in any blank ( or even the underlined ship with almost every other ship ) there and have an argument, if you wanted to. Neither T-65s or T-70s are as bad off as everyone makes out to be, its just that lazy people spend more time whining on the internet than playing and few ships are out of the realm of competitive. There are some ships that are easier to pick up and win with (defenders post vets, JM5k,etc) but I would move the x wing out of the ships that need serious attention.

the T-70 is the T-65 fix. The additional pilots, maneuvers, Tech slots, etc make it a better ship than the original. Now if we could get someone to play it consistently.

Indeed, non-meta lists can win tournaments precisely because they counter the top meta build!

The only way you can have a 'non-meta list' is if you had someone put together a list with absolutely no knowledge of what other people were likely to play, and effectively no external input into building that list.

Just about anyone can see the value of PtL, but if you read somewhere about how good it is, before you figure that out on your own, you've used the meta in your list.

Anything that counters the top meta builds, is going to be part of the meta just as a matter of simple definition of the term. Because again the only way to truly be outside the meta is by having absolutely no access to outside information which is quite frankly next to impossible.

I mean a list that isn't a staple of the normal competitive lists but happens to handle palp aces or whatever well. I don't mean a list created with no consideration for meta.

the T-70 is the T-65 fix. The additional pilots, maneuvers, Tech slots, etc make it a better ship than the original. Now if we could get someone to play it consistently.

this is incorrect on two MAJOR levels

level 1: the T-70 is a different ship

level 2: T-70 is less efficient than the x-wing

it is neither the fix for the X-wing, as it isn't the same ship, nor is it a fix at all because it's actually mathematically worse

Mixed metaphor here, but I give no copulations.

The meta-game is the mind-killer.
It is the little-game that brings total obliteration.
I will face my meta.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when the meta has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the meta has gone there will be nothing.
Only the dice will remain.

There is no meta only player skill

This concept keeps cropping up and demonstrontes a total lack of understanding as to what the term means. It's like saying

"there is no culture, only behavior", or "there is no economy, only transactions", or "there is no ecology, only animals (and plants)", or "there is no physics, only matter and energy"

The meta isn't something that people consciously create. It isn't an object. It's the some total of what is happening in a given environment. It is literally impossible for there to not be a meta. For there to not be a meta would require that no one ever discuss the game when not playing and for the memories of each game to be erased immediately after the game. And even then there would still be a meta, but no body would be able to analyse it.

So...... what you're saying is, there is a meta, and it's composed of T-65s?

You are the prime example of someone who does not understand what the word "meta" means.

Metagaming = knowing what will be the common lists and bringing something to counter them.

Apologies. I thought it would be obvious that post was made in jest.

I suppose you just can't be sure around here

It's really easy to "backtrack" and say it was said in sarcasm when someone rebutts you.

Orrrrr....you can just not be a ****.

I thought it was pretty obvious he was being sarcastic.

...I may have to look into how many of these I have...

This gives you 96 points total for your list with four PS 4 pilots. There's likely more in the list due to the fact there is little value in a PS bid at PS 4.

Flown well, yeah, it can be scary. There are lists though this will be a very hard uphill battle.

What about swapping one out for the obligatory Biggs (oBiggsatory) - that way, three of the four get an indirect benefit from R4-D6, plus have their own droids for whatever purpose...

..one could take R2-D6 and soak the last two points on an EPT, or take a 1pt EPT and let one ship take a 2pt droid ( well, hello there lil' R3 droid - ).

(I'd be tempted to give each one a different droid, just for the variety)

I'm sorely tempted by this one... yeah, I got a T-70 in there messing with the theme and not using my 4th T-65 mini but I like Jes Pava's ability. She *might* work. Gets everybody over that jumpmaster PS3 nightmare scenario, a lot of firepower and maneuvering flexibility with having four ships. Jes is going to be having a lot of re-rolls (and obviously the choice target) and Biggs... yeah, well... What does he do again?

26 - Biggs - R4-D6

26 - Jes Pava - (1 pt EPT droid + Adaptability)

24 - Red - (1 pt droid)

24 - Red - (1 pt droid)

Edit: Assumed Integrated Astro on everybody...

The list the OP was referring to is actually Wedge and Biggs with two rookies

Edit: It may have been Wes, not Wedge. my memory is terrible

This topic seems perfect for a pithy "What if I told you" meme.

the T-70 is the T-65 fix. The additional pilots, maneuvers, Tech slots, etc make it a better ship than the original. Now if we could get someone to play it consistently.

this is incorrect on two MAJOR levels

level 1: the T-70 is a different ship

level 2: T-70 is less efficient than the x-wing

it is neither the fix for the X-wing, as it isn't the same ship, nor is it a fix at all because it's actually mathematically worse

The way these slots and upgrades are, they really don't do anything for the generic T-70s which are worse than the generic T-65s, neither of which get played because those ships are really not able to do anything but be math jousters. The ace t-65s get used because of their powerful pilot effects and are still niche pieces that happen to be useful right now.

Still, the T-65 is not in as bad a place as some other ships other than the general way the game has not played into normal math jousters, at least not the 3-die kind like the B-wing and X-wing.

Okay, first person who can construct a code (based on the Jedi or Sith code) off of the title of this thread gets a cookie.

Only Pilot skill

There are no actions

There is only stress

There is no rebels

There is only Imperials

With them my chains are broken

Soontir Fel shall set me free

Apologies. I thought it would be obvious that post was made in jest.

I suppose you just can't be sure around here

It's really easy to "backtrack" and say it was said in sarcasm when someone rebutts you.

Orrrrr....you can just not be a ****.

I thought it was pretty obvious he was being sarcastic.

Yes, it was pretty obvious he was joking.

On another matter, is it just me, or are there 3 totally separate conversations going on in this thread?

On another matter, is it just me, or are there 3 totally separate conversations going on in this thread?

There is no topic only streams of consciousness.

This thread doesn't need moderation, it's perfectly fine as it is.

(sic)