In another thread there as been some very reasonable speculation on how seismic torpedoes works with Nera Dantiels and the VCX-100 'special' arc, based on the wording of the seismic torpedoes card.

So yeah, while it looks like by the letter, at this point in time, Nera is out of luck... My question to FFG is was that intended? Or was (as I suspect) specifying the primary arc in the torp card wording just so people didn't all just start firing seismic torps off all 360.

Those were the two cases I thought of right off the bat but are there any others?

Considering that most of the time torpedoes are restricted to your primary arc, I think the small number of ships able to launch torpedoes outside the primary arc isn't likely to change things. I'd be willing to bet that if FFG make a FAQ ruling it will keep Seismic Torpedoes just the way it is and Nera and the VCX will just be unlucky.

I believe the text is intentional. The rules define Secondary Weapons as upgrades with the "Attack" header, and confine secondary weapons to Primary Arc unless the upgrade specifies otherwise. Seismic Torpedo has the "Action" header, therefore not a secondary weapon. This is the reason the text is necessary, not redundant.

Side note: Major Rhymer can't extend the range of Seismic Torpedo.

Oh yeah totally it's carefully considered in many respects. I'm just not sure they meant to block the special abilities of people like Major Rhymer.

First, impact is always more relevant than intent. Second, does this chap you in some way, or are you merely curious? I ask in sincerity; I know some people who love Nera Dantels. Plenty of players live and die by the VCX-100. I'm personally a fan of the good Major who can shoot an Advanced Homing Missile at any range.

I'm more hoping it will get an errata/FAQ entry so the impact matches the intent.

I'm a fan of Nera and would like to be able to seismic torp just like the other torps. Also a large part of me is just irked by the inconsistency across those pilots and the VCX if you (as you should) go with the card text as printed.

I don't really see the problem with this.

Seismic torpedo fires during the "action" phase of a turn.

The "special" arc on the VCX allows the torpedo to be fired out that arc whether there is a shuttle docked to it or not (it is treated as a primary arc if the obstacle is in front of or in back of the VCX).

In Nera's case, it is the obstacle that has to to be inside the primary firing arc, so her ability doesn'the really apply to the Seismic torpedo's text.

I don't really see the problem with this.

Seismic torpedo fires during the "action" phase of a turn.

The "special" arc on the VCX allows the torpedo to be fired out that arc whether there is a shuttle docked to it or not (it is treated as a primary arc if the obstacle is in front of or in back of the VCX).

In Nera's case, it is the obstacle that has to to be inside the primary firing arc, so her ability doesn'the really apply to the Seismic torpedo's text.

Did you read the first three posts?

I agree with you in the case of Nera, but Shamoth's point is that he wants to be able to apply Nera's ability to a Seismic Torp, like any other torpedo. It's Shamoth's opinion, which Shamoth is entitled to.

Your assessment of the VCX is incorrect. The rules specify you may fire torpedo secondary weapons from the special firing arc. The seismic torpedo is not a secondary weapon.

I don't really see the problem with this.

Seismic torpedo fires during the "action" phase of a turn.

The "special" arc on the VCX allows the torpedo to be fired out that arc whether there is a shuttle docked to it or not (it is treated as a primary arc if the obstacle is in front of or in back of the VCX).

In Nera's case, it is the obstacle that has to to be inside the primary firing arc, so her ability doesn'the really apply to the Seismic torpedo's text.

Did you read the first three posts?

I agree with you in the case of Nera, but Shamoth's point is that he wants to be able to apply Nera's ability to a Seismic Torp, like any other torpedo. It's Shamoth's opinion, which Shamoth is entitled to.

Your assessment of the VCX is incorrect. The rules specify you may fire torpedo secondary weapons from the special firing arc. The seismic torpedo is not a secondary weapon.

Just because the card has an "Action" header in its text instead of "Attack", does not make the card invalid as a secondary weapon (it is still a torpedo). The "Action" header is telling you which phase it is suppose take place. Bombs are considered secondary weapons and some have "Action" headers at the start of the text.

I don't really see the problem with this.

Seismic torpedo fires during the "action" phase of a turn.

The "special" arc on the VCX allows the torpedo to be fired out that arc whether there is a shuttle docked to it or not (it is treated as a primary arc if the obstacle is in front of or in back of the VCX).

In Nera's case, it is the obstacle that has to to be inside the primary firing arc, so her ability doesn'the really apply to the Seismic torpedo's text.

Did you read the first three posts?

I agree with you in the case of Nera, but Shamoth's point is that he wants to be able to apply Nera's ability to a Seismic Torp, like any other torpedo. It's Shamoth's opinion, which Shamoth is entitled to.

Your assessment of the VCX is incorrect. The rules specify you may fire torpedo secondary weapons from the special firing arc. The seismic torpedo is not a secondary weapon.

Just because the card has an "Action" header in its text instead of "Attack", does not make the card invalid as a secondary weapon (it is still a torpedo). The "Action" header is telling you which phase it is suppose take place. Bombs are considered secondary weapons and some have "Action" headers at the start of the text.

Relevant text from the rules: Secondary weapons are upgrades that feature the “Attack:” header in their card text. They provide additional types of attack other than a ship’s primary weapon.

I don't really see the problem with this.

Seismic torpedo fires during the "action" phase of a turn.

The "special" arc on the VCX allows the torpedo to be fired out that arc whether there is a shuttle docked to it or not (it is treated as a primary arc if the obstacle is in front of or in back of the VCX).

In Nera's case, it is the obstacle that has to to be inside the primary firing arc, so her ability doesn'the really apply to the Seismic torpedo's text.

Did you read the first three posts?

I agree with you in the case of Nera, but Shamoth's point is that he wants to be able to apply Nera's ability to a Seismic Torp, like any other torpedo. It's Shamoth's opinion, which Shamoth is entitled to.

Your assessment of the VCX is incorrect. The rules specify you may fire torpedo secondary weapons from the special firing arc. The seismic torpedo is not a secondary weapon.

Just because the card has an "Action" header in its text instead of "Attack", does not make the card invalid as a secondary weapon (it is still a torpedo). The "Action" header is telling you which phase it is suppose take place. Bombs are considered secondary weapons and some have "Action" headers at the start of the text.

This is wrong in literally every particular:

Having an Action header and no Attack header DOES stop a card being a secondary weapon (If a card also had the attack header, which there's no precedent for yet, it would then be a secondary weapon).

Being a torpedo upgrade DOESN'T make a card a secondary weapon.

The Action: header doesn't tell you which phase the card is supposed to take place, it tells you that it requires an action to use the card (you can use action: cards whenever you have a free choice of action, including for instance when Airen Cracken uses his pilot ability in the combat phase)

Bomb upgradess are not secondary weapons by definition, and there are currently no bomb upgrades which are secondary weapons, though that doesn't mean there never will be.

From the rules reference:

SECONDARY WEAPONS

Secondary weapons are upgrades that feature the

“Attack:” header in their card text. They provide

additional types of attack other than a ship’s primary

weapon.

To use a secondary weapon, the attacker must meet

all requirements indicated in the card’s text, and the

desired target must be inside the attacker’s firing arc

and at the weapon range specified on the card. If all

requirements are met, the attacker can declare that

it is using the secondary weapon during the “Declare

Target” step, and it rolls the number of attack dice

indicated by the red attack value on the card during

the “Roll Attack Dice” step.

Nothing about what slot they occupy. The only defining factor for secondary weapons is that they feature the Attack: header. Snap Shot is a secondary weapon. Hot Shot Blaster is a secondary weapon. Seismic Torpedoes are not.

Please don't answer rules questions when your answers are demonstrably wrong.

I don't really see the problem with this.

Seismic torpedo fires during the "action" phase of a turn.

The "special" arc on the VCX allows the torpedo to be fired out that arc whether there is a shuttle docked to it or not (it is treated as a primary arc if the obstacle is in front of or in back of the VCX).

In Nera's case, it is the obstacle that has to to be inside the primary firing arc, so her ability doesn'the really apply to the Seismic torpedo's text.

Did you read the first three posts?

I agree with you in the case of Nera, but Shamoth's point is that he wants to be able to apply Nera's ability to a Seismic Torp, like any other torpedo. It's Shamoth's opinion, which Shamoth is entitled to.

Your assessment of the VCX is incorrect. The rules specify you may fire torpedo secondary weapons from the special firing arc. The seismic torpedo is not a secondary weapon.

Just because the card has an "Action" header in its text instead of "Attack", does not make the card invalid as a secondary weapon (it is still a torpedo). The "Action" header is telling you which phase it is suppose take place. Bombs are considered secondary weapons and some have "Action" headers at the start of the text.

completely invalidates it as a secondary weapon just because it has the "action" header

Read there rules for secondary weapons. It does not call out upgrade slots, it calls out upgrades with the "Attack" header. This is why Snapshot is a secondary weapon, despite so many people claiming it isnt because its an EPT.

EM and ChaarRefit are not classified as secondary weapons either, but they take torps/missiles slots.

edit: Oh and the action has nothing to do about which phase it happens. We have plenty of non-combat phase attacks and we have plenty of in-combat phase actions. Thane could EASILY use this torpedo in the combat phase, just have someone in his arc shoot (not at him) and an obstacle in his front arc at range1-2 and blam torpedo goes off.

I don't really see the problem with this.

Seismic torpedo fires during the "action" phase of a turn.

The "special" arc on the VCX allows the torpedo to be fired out that arc whether there is a shuttle docked to it or not (it is treated as a primary arc if the obstacle is in front of or in back of the VCX).

In Nera's case, it is the obstacle that has to to be inside the primary firing arc, so her ability doesn'the really apply to the Seismic torpedo's text.

Did you read the first three posts?

I agree with you in the case of Nera, but Shamoth's point is that he wants to be able to apply Nera's ability to a Seismic Torp, like any other torpedo. It's Shamoth's opinion, which Shamoth is entitled to.

Your assessment of the VCX is incorrect. The rules specify you may fire torpedo secondary weapons from the special firing arc. The seismic torpedo is not a secondary weapon.

Just because the card has an "Action" header in its text instead of "Attack", does not make the card invalid as a secondary weapon (it is still a torpedo). The "Action" header is telling you which phase it is suppose take place. Bombs are considered secondary weapons and some have "Action" headers at the start of the text.

LOL, this guy was so wrong that like seven people leaped into this thread simultaneously and corrected him, like they sensed it from across the city and swooped to X-wing's rescue.