Ever feel guilty about winning a few games in a row?

The last time my group played Talisman, a friend won the first game and I won the second game. Then, today, I won all three games (the first 2 games had 7 players and the third had 5 players). The first game was a long, 5 hour game with a hard won fight. My first attempt to reach the Crown space by thwarted when my Talisman was Shattered while I was in the inner region. It took me a long to time to complete a quest to get another talisman and have another go. The ending (using random endings) was revealed to be the Ice Queen and I was not prepared for the fight , so I used the option to escape back to the Plain of Peril. Some time later I was able to make the run again through the inner region, and defeat the queen and won.

My win the in the second game was a fluke. I was going through the Dungeon and wanted to defeat the Lord of Darkness, just for a treasure. I attacked him with 12 Craft and had cast Bolster, so I get to roll 2 dice in the combat. The player rolling for the LoD rolled a 1 and I rolled 9, which means that I beat the LoD by 8, and went right to the Crown space! I didn't plan on it, I just used Bolster to make sure I defeated the LoD. I then drew the Dragon King ending (our alternate endings include a few re-polished ones from the 2nd edition of Talisman) and rolled the option that the Dragon Kings fights the other players. They all lost and I won again.

Then, in the third game, I wasn't trying hard to win, but was just having a lucky night and things were going well for me. I powered up enough that there was no reason for me not to get to the Crown. When I got there, another player cast Transference and swapped places with me. I thought that this was good, so that I would not win again. Then a different player, playing the Gypsy, picked up the Transference and used it to swap places with the player on the Crown. However, I had the Hydra spell and could not resist using it, so I cast it, making the Gypsy swap places with me, putting me back on the Crown space.

So, now I feel guilty about winning so many times in a row. I think that next time I will play with a character that I don't like playing and just make bad decisions on purpose. I am the type of player that I like the atmosphere of being with friends and playing a game together more than actually winning. A win now and then is good enough for me. But I do get annoyed when I encounter a string of bad luck, so I feel guilty when I hit a string of good luck and win so often. But that's just me. I'm weird like that

Gelmaron said:

So, now I feel guilty about winning so many times in a row. I think that next time I will play with a character that I don't like playing and just make bad decisions on purpose. I am the type of player that I like the atmosphere of being with friends and playing a game together more than actually winning. A win now and then is good enough for me. But I do get annoyed when I encounter a string of bad luck, so I feel guilty when I hit a string of good luck and win so often. But that's just me. I'm weird like that

You ARE weird! Winning bad? Freak !!! How do you deal out chars just out of curiosity? If not doing single-random, play the Priest, that'll be a nice handicap IMO.

Of course, each group is different, around here, anyone on a winning streak would have a huge bullseye on them, everyone gunning to take you down .

Gelmaron ... I too share your interest in the play along the way as much as the win. And with 7 players, 5 hours isn't really that long... though some may think so. A part of what you're experience (in the descriptions you presented) is just the way the game is... lots of luck of the draw combined with especially spells that have escalated in power over the years. Isn't it strange how some spells are allowed for the Inner Region and some aren't? Hmmm....

I wouldn't fret about it; luck always has a way of turning against anyone; she/he/it is very whimsical.

Never had problems like yours, I've never won a game of Talisman out of 20 played this year, despite having best chances to win at least 15 of them. Last one was on Saturday night. I simply don't have luck, at all, and you need at least some to win at Talisman. I've never had the slightest amount of luck.

Maybe next time call me and I will roll dice and draw cards in your place. You're not going to win, at least not that much.

However, I admire you and your friends being able to play three games of Talisman in a row. I need at least one week to recover from the strain and delusion it causes me sometimes.

It's always good fun to see what happens, but I can't always be the one that's toaded (with Fate), is killed by Reaper (with Fate), is enslaved at the Temple 2-3 times, loses battles against weaker opponents, misses Turns at every chance, draws the Hag, draws the Horse Thief with Mule, Warhorse and Horse and Cart, draws the Whirlwind and loses only valuable Objects, etc..., while winners do absolutely nothing to gain victory except slowly drawing lots of good cards and keep rolling good results when needed. I'm considering watching other people play Talisman; it's more fun than playing by myself.

Sorry for this, I'm just getting an overview of my gaming experience this year. I own many other FFG games (Runebound, Descent, World of Warcraft, Arkham Horror and Doom) and I always get my share of fun (and victories) without feeling so disgraced as I do with Talisman. It's the only game I know where you win when you do absolutely nothing to get victory, and where my exquisite bad luck hurts the most. In fact, I'm considering abandoning Talisman for games that are more balanced in terms of chances and probabilities.

Warlock... I feel you pain. But while you're here, how does Descent match up on the old chance vs strategy range? Is it more balanced between the two than Talisman? Just curious.

Depending on the circumstance, I think Guilt for winning is actually pretty smart. Remember, it’s a game, not an obligation. You start winning a lot, or worse, gloating, and you might see your player pool dwindle. That, or they start wanting to rent something instead of playing Talisman.

Real game example for me.

I suck at PvP in Talisman, and most board games. But I suck more at computer PvP. Except one computer game / console series, with one character, ever.

Mortal Kombat 1-3 with Sub Zero.

No cheat codes. No walkthroughs. Just try and learn. Each of us had our favourites. But for me, it was Sub Zero. After about a year of playing all 3 games, I was unbeatable, period, the end, among our circle of 30 friends and acquaintances. Then I started racking up flawless victories. Then, eventually, double flawless victories.

I didn’t gloat, but I wasn’t apologetic either. Eventually, though I was the only one of my friends with a console (long story); my friends preferred to make things movie night rather than facing Sub Zero again. Sure we tried variants like “Everyone gets 15 min of play.” Instead of “winner stays” or “random characters”, but, in the end, it felt like home rules made because no-one could beat me.

So, by attrition of interest, that game is now a memory. I’ve never had that kind of luck (or skill, take your pick) at any PvP game ever, before or since. So, by winning a lot, I “priced myself out of the game” so to speak.

Remember this when playing Talisman. A lot of posts here are about “Sure. I’ll do anything to win. And LOL at you when you lost. And suck it up Princess.” And that’s fine if that’s how you and your friends carouse. But, know your players. Those that hate that kind of behaviour will stop playing Talisman, and it might be tough to replenish your player pool.

So, essentially, sure, feel guilty if that’s what you need to do to keep players. But, if they’re all tough skinned, do whatever you want. Just remember, it’s a game, not a job. No-one HAS to stay around the table.

Just a thought.

I think that the reason why I felt a pang of guilt when I won 4 games in a row is that 1) when another player won 6 out of 7 games (over the course of 3 sessions) I harped on that a lot and 2) I tend to complain a lot when I hit a losing streak

I never gloat when I win. I am also worried that with my winning 4 games in a row that others might decide that they want to play something else and, even when I complain about the game, it is still my favorite boardgame. Ever since I started keeping track of all the players games-played/wins/losses (about 6 years ago) I have played 51 games of Talisman and won 18. We have one player whose played 22 games and won 2 and another player who has played 13 games and won 0.

I have no guilt yet, in my games.

We are a match for each other.

it's 5-4 for the other player now

Next time, i will defeat him

JCHendee said:

Maybe it's not the right place to talk about this, but I think every boardgame I know is more balanced between chance and strategy than Talisman. Descent is not a flawless game by all means, it's very long to play and features a player vs. gamemaster competition that's not for everyone (the role of the Dungeon Overlord is really difficult to play, you might find it harsh to see that you cannot hinder other players when they're close to the final showdown). But everybody get's his chance to build strategy and merge it with luck. You can still roll bad (you know I have the same problem in Descent, I tend to miss more than the average player, especially when a hit is critical), but in the end it's more about careful move and action planning.

Talisman problem is not randomness, but how it is put inside the game. low dice results mean always bad outcomes, higher results are always positive. The base game had some nuances (i.e. Forest and Crags, a 1 is a better result than a 2 or 3 IMO), but while the game goes on with the expansions, I feel that my special skills in rolling lots of ones are causing me more problems than the others. Others go around for hours without Fate and don't have problems with Reaper or other baddies, I get killed almost every time I'm about to go in the Inner Region, even with re-rolling. It's so incredible how many times it happened that my friends cannot stop laughing. It's just... doom.

The thing I'm starting to dislkie is not this randomness, but the fact that the usual winner is not the player that has been tempting, running, struggling, carefully planning, but the one that has done absolutely nothing from the beginning to the end. Nothing except slowly drawing cards and occasionally moving the Reaper on other Characters. It's not what I like. I want to see winners plan, fight, dare and suffer, not hide in the shadows, at least in an Adventure Game.

I too prefer a game that is well balanced between luck and strategy (read "choice"), as does most of my group (that's why we still play together I guess). Perhaps the best example as a simple boardgame is backgammon, which when traced through its forerunners has the same mechanics as the earliest board game ever uncovered... the Royal Game of Ur. Talisman by comparison is more complicated, though simple compared to other modern equivalents; its randomness is vice or virtue depending on who one talks to... but it is less and less balance with any sense of tactical choices.

Some cards from 2E, while still acquired randomly, did allow some controllable tactics. The old 2E Horse vs the new one is one example. We have noticed a lot of reissued cards that have changed more to blind chance... such as horse the just goes farther (which is not faster if you are trying to get somewhere specific rather than just to end of a gauntlet, like the Dungeon). Ah well...

I do remember Descent now, and the GM against all other players is one reason no one in the group was too interested. Nobody wanted to be the GM. The closest alternative we play is Runebound, though we only acquired it recently and haven't had many games. It's combat mechanics sometimes aren't sensible, and the ten side die is still flat probability expanded from Talisman six sided. But it does have a few more choices, such as getting to choose (sort of) the difficulty of challenge one is ready to face.

And I too have seen games in Talisman where the one who wins wasn't the one trying the hardest and was just dipping the Adventure deck as often as possible. It gets a bit silly sometimes.

There, now I dont feel so guilty. My gaming group played 3 more games of Talisman tonight and I won none of them. The first winner was the newest of our Talisman players who has only one 25% of the games he has played and the other winner was our champion who is the leader in wins at 43%.