My own game features the Players in charge of a small flotilla of ships, their captian's vassals to the Rogue Trader. It was made quite clear to the players that the Dynasty has seen better days a number of the captains will terminate their contracts of vassalage if things don't improve with the new management.

An very easy way to manage a fleet for RT is to bind some vessels up.

As an example offer the players an increase in profit factor but to keep this the players have to defend the new trade route, planet , astroid research labs with one of their vessels. So you ca strip the fleet a little bit down.

I´m not very happy with the idea to degrade upkeep to a series of rolls. Its always a good idea to let the players fight to defend their PF and Ships.

And last but not least the navy owns the codes for every vessel. If they don´t provide a sector code the newly found archaotech vessel is just another bandit for each Battlefleet patrol... Accident like friendly fire are also not unheard of.^^

In my games (i´m the GM), i give my players a choice when they get a new ship. They loose between 1-5 PF, depending on the size und state of the ship, representing repairs (if needed), refits, new crew, etc., but then the ship functions like their flagship. Or they don´t loose the PF, but then they have all that pesky problems with replenishing crew, repairs, morale, the ships history and machine spirit, you name it.

I see the lost PF as the price for a vessel that is on par with your flagship. No problems more, no problems less. If you don´t want to pay the PF, you have to get the ship back in operations the hard way. And i strongly recommend my group to send the new ship(s) on their own voyages for their dynasty. Only for really difficult scenarios, I let them gather the whole fleet.

Alternatively, they can sell the ships to the Navy or other traders. Sometimes they can use them as gifts for various Adepta, Inquisition, Navy, etc. Presents are good for friendships. A timely present can keep the Inquisition of your back, for instance.

Hmm, that's got me thinking about this. I'd say that for every extra vessel they take with them they lose some achievement points. Not too many, maybe 3-500 per objective. It'll more than counter the ship's bonus AP from it's components and means they have to work a bit harder to make money.
After all, if they were just using the one ship, the other would be going out making money or protecting assets on it's own. If they take extras, they're paying more on the mission so making less profit. Of course that's only the theory, a second ship would allow them to complete more side-quests meaning overall they make more money, but only if they work at it.

I hate to suggest this, but the way the game is written, it would seem like the party is 'supposed' to get multiple ships. and occasionally whole regiments of imperial guard, and companies of space marines.

I think a lot of GMs are having a hard time with how this game seems ot be designed, falling back on the same tactics to try and limit the party's power by thier income won't work. They have, effectivly, unlimited money.

Think Big, GMs. We're not on a dungeon crawl here. You'll have ot use politics and really big sticks to get the players to do your will....

and if there is anythign that 40k has LOTS of it's politics and really, really big sticks.

That's certain not entirely that the PCs should have a fleet of ships. It depends on the tale you are telling. One GM might be telling a tale of the rise of a powerful Rogue Trading house. One GM might be telling a gritty story of a Rogue Trader just trying to survive. Both are valid narratives supported by fluff. My personal narratives for RT is the PCs start out poor (well RT poor), struggle to survive, and then finally succeed and are wreathed in glory, and showered with goods.

PS- I'm still puzzled by the idea that the PCs can simply keep the ships they capture from pirates, and other rogue traders. I'm hard pressed to find an example in our history where a ship captured from pirates simply becomes your ship when you capture it. (Salvage courts and the like where you get a percentage of the ship's value are what happened historically.)

Dalnor Surloc said:

Most RT's operate outside of what is considered 'Imperial Space' but if the Navy, Inquisition, Mechanicus or other pirates/RT's see your fancy new ship they might want it

PS- I'm still puzzled by the idea that the PCs can simply keep the ships they capture from pirates, and other rogue traders. I'm hard pressed to find an example in our history where a ship captured from pirates simply becomes your ship when you capture it. (Salvage courts and the like where you get a percentage of the ship's value are what happened historically.)

Historically, Privateers could only sell their captures at their patron nations prize courts (for whatever they could get, minus fee's and taxes), together with their cargo's (as detailed in their charter). To sell the assets elsewhere was considered piracy (a charge they were always open too, most had powerful patrons to reduce the risk of this).

The national navies who took prizes had to sell captures at a prize court (with the Captain liable for unlawful prizes, a ruinous event) but only received a percentage of the sale, rather than paying fee's. At the start of the Napoleonic wars, Britain divided prizes into eights, with one eighth going to the Admiral (regardless of presence), one eighth shared between the Captains (even if one took no part in the battle but was present) present, one eighth to the ships officers (Lieutenants, some senior non-coms such as the Master, the surgeon etc.), one eighth to the wardroom officers (midshipmen, petty officers, the carpenter etc.), three eighths to the ships crew (based upon seniority, an able seamen got more than a landsman, and both got more than a ships boy) and an eighth to the Admiralty (i.e. the government). Later on one of the crews eighths was transferred to the Admiralty (which wasn't very popular).

However, whilst they were restricted where they could sell them, Privateers were under no obligation to do so and could keep prizes if they chose. This was however very rare, as privateering was a business, and their wasn't much reason to keep hold of cargo vessels (and their goods), and it was far too risky (for little reward) to try to capture warships as they held no cargo and were likely to be both heavily damaged and inflict heavy damage during an encounter, making it far to expensive a proposition. Why spend eight month's in dock getting repaired when you could spend eight months at sea taking valuable prizes?

MDMann said:

There's the issue. Fundamentally, a Rogue Trader has sufficient sway to stand alongside Inquisitors and Astartes Chapter Masters and Lord-Admirals of the Imperial Navy and Lord-Generals Militant of the Imperial Guard and so forth - they're extremely powerful individuals within the Imperium, and essentially beyond reproach outside of it (the Warrant of Trade essentially makes them the Emperor's proxy beyond the reach of the Imperium of Man). If they want to keep the prizes they obtain, then they're welcome to try, though depending on the prize their ownership may be somewhat contested (pre-Imperial or lost STC technology will invariably attract Adeptus Mechanicus attention, many things will make Inquisitors take notice, and so forth).

Exactly. Outside Imperial space, the bearer of a charter would have the right to convene (and sit on) a Prize Court.

In theory, provided the prize was taken beyond the Imperium, and the Court convened before they returned to Imperial space, a Rogue Trader could legally ascertain it's worth and buy it into his own service. It'd be iffy as hell, and there'd be issues with conflict of interest, but it'd probably be legal. A sounder bet (legally speaking) would be for several Warrant Holders to form an independent Prize Court at, say... Footfall, and have them take either the Admiral's eight, or one or more of the Admiralty's eighths. Provided the RT who took the prize doesn't have a casting vote as to the legality and worth, he'd be able to sit upon that Court, and buy it into service afterwards. Perfectly legal, but it'd require several Warrants to co-operate...

Well, let us recall that Rogue Traders, power wise, are the inverse of Inquisitors. Whereas Inquisitors may do pretty much as they wish inside the Imperium, Rogue Traders may not. However, outside the Imperium, the Rogue Trader's warrent gives them very broad discretionary powers (on par with an Inquisitor) whereas the Inquisitor would find themselves cut off from the source of thier power, namely the Institutions of the Imperium.

As far as legal claim goes, one must remember that Rogue Traders might no come back to the Imperium proper for decades. If one had ot go to prize court every time one captured a pirate vessel...

On the other hand, salvage rights to wrecked Imperial navy vessels should take time and armies of lawyers...