My first attempt on a fighter-heavy list. I willingly ignore the Rogues expansion so that's why I have no Jan or Han.

FIGHTERS!!!!!!!
Author: Norell

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 393/400

Commander: Mon Mothma

Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)
- Gallant Haven ( 8 points)
- Adar Tallon ( 10 points)
= 90 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points)
- Yavaris ( 5 points)
- Flight Commander ( 3 points)
- Fighter Coordination Team ( 3 points)
= 68 total ship cost

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Mon Mothma ( 30 points)
= 74 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 28 total ship cost

1 Luke Skywalker ( 20 points)
1 Keyan Farlander ( 20 points)
1 "Dutch" Vander ( 16 points)
1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
3 A-Wing Squadrons ( 33 points)
2 B-Wing Squadrons ( 28 points)

I do wander if you might benefit from taking away an A-wing to add ECMs to Gallant Haven. I assume this ship will be getting up close and personal with the enemy, so it's defense tokens will be much needed. That'd give you 4 more points of bid to play with, and it'll keep your squadrons at 8 (4 even deployments). Maybe throw Leia or Toryn Farr on the Gozanti, or Tantive/Jainas light on the flagship. You could always reduce Tycho or Dutch to a generic to get more points back for more options.

Alternately, you could change Mothma's corvette into a CR90B and play keep away. But id prefer the first option.

Overall lots of deployments for very good strategic positioning. 5/9 bombers with a large fighter screen. Classic Yavaaris/Adar Talon combo with the new FC/FCT addition to Yavaaris. Great bid for bomb rushing one at a time of your opponents ships with Mothma added for that up-close and personal protection. The only thing is that both of your main ships want to be right in the middle of it all, which Mothma allows for. I think it'll give you a fun, edge-y experience, and I think it's an innovative way to capitalize on Mothma's ability

Maybe something like this. Same bid, took out Tycho (but Tycho can be Ace switched with Dutch, if preferred). I really like it, and if I wasnt testing one of my own lists today, I'd use in the tournament I'm about to hit up

Fighters!!! (Suggested)

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 393/400

Commander: Mon Mothma

Assault Objective: Precision Strike

Defense Objective: Contested Outpost

Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)

- Gallant Haven ( 8 points)

- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

= 94 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points)

- Yavaris ( 5 points)

- Flight Commander ( 3 points)

- Fighter Coordination Team ( 3 points)

= 68 total ship cost

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- Mon Mothma ( 30 points)

- Tantive IV ( 3 points)

= 72 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)

- Bright Hope ( 2 points)

- Adar Tallon ( 10 points)

- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)

= 42 total ship cost

1 Luke Skywalker ( 20 points)

2 B-Wing Squadrons ( 28 points)

1 Keyan Farlander ( 20 points)

3 A-Wing Squadrons ( 33 points)

1 "Dutch" Vander ( 16 points)

I like Parkdaddy's version, but would still take Tycho. I prefer Jan in squadron swarms, but without her, Tycho is invaluable.

The advice that I'd hand out is...

1. CR90 doesn't bring much to the table in a squadron focused list. Why not go for another GR-75? It'll save points and give you another ship that works as a 'light carrier'.

2. Divide your squadron into 'carrier groups'. What ships are going to work with which squadron and what job are they going to do? The most important element of a squadron heavy fleet, IMO, is to get those squadrons activated asap.

3. Toryn Farr + Flight Controllers is a great combo when aiming for space superiority.

4. The Rebel Aces from wave one aren't that great IMHO. I'd consider replacing Luke, Dutch, Tycho and Keyan for pilots like Jan, Dash and Han. If you don't fancy the wave two stuff then I'd just advise taking more basic squadron.

Thanks for the commend Kahdras but the whole point of the build is to avoid using Rogues because I don't like that literally every build nowadays relies on Corellian transports instead of good old fighters.

By the way, wouldn't Adar be too exposed on a transport?

Potentially, but with boosted comms you can keep him at a safe distance. Additionally, gallant haven wants to be right by your fighters, so Toryn Farr fits better there (even though you don't get to affect gallant havens rolls).

And Gink is right. Tycho fits much better in here, but then you're down to 4/8 bombers. So maybe trade 2 As for Ys and switch Tycho with Dutch? Maybe another X instead of a Y for that extra fighter/bomber capability

Thanks for the commend Kahdras but the whole point of the build is to avoid using Rogues because I don't like that literally every build nowadays relies on Corellian transports instead of good old fighters.

Not going for any squadrons with the rogue ability is a valid option; in fact with a squadron focused list they're actually at a disadvantage as you want to be activating in the ship phase using squadron command. The two aces that I regularly use from the Rogue pack are Han Solo (go first) and Jan Ors (brace tokens for everybody). It's not just about the YT-2400's.

4. The Rebel Aces from wave one aren't that great IMHO. I'd consider replacing Luke, Dutch, Tycho and Keyan for pilots like Jan, Dash and Han. If you don't fancy the wave two stuff then I'd just advise taking more basic squadron.

I don't know... I kinda dig the basic Reb guys. They have cool abilities.

Every time Luke gets put on the board he becomes an immediate target because he can be so annoying coming in and getting 6 damage directly on the hull with an Adar BCC followed by Yavaris. IMO he is worth the points because he forces them to target him and then I can use him to set up my real strike. Thanks, Luke... way to die for the cause.

I don't know... I kinda dig the basic Reb guys. They have cool abilities.

I tend to find that there abilities don't mesh very well. Luke is a good example. You want him making those early bombing runs against ships so he can ignore their shields. He's in an X-Wing though which isn't really optimised for that role (despite getting that black anti ship die 'upgrade'). In essence he doesn't really want his escort ability or his four blue anti squadron dice. Dutch Vander has the same problem. He's in a bomber but his ability (and 'upgrade') enhances his dogfighting ability but he's still in a squadron with the heavy keyword. I really feel that FFG had a think about Rebel aces after wave one and did a better job of wave two

I tend to find that there abilities don't mesh very well. Luke is a good example. You want him making those early bombing runs against ships so he can ignore their shields. He's in an X-Wing though which isn't really optimised for that role (despite getting that black anti ship die 'upgrade'). In essence he doesn't really want his escort ability or his four blue anti squadron dice. Dutch Vander has the same problem. He's in a bomber but his ability (and 'upgrade') enhances his dogfighting ability but he's still in a squadron with the heavy keyword. I really feel that FFG had a think about Rebel aces after wave one and did a better job of wave two

Yes, but when you take it from a Wave 1 perspective, Luke needs his 4 Blue Die anti-squadron to peal through TIE Fighters tobe able to get shots on the hull in teh first place.

And wedding Dutch's Ability to a Y-Wing, keeps his cost at a solid 16 points, rather than ballooning up to close to 20 if he was, in say, an X-Wing.

I think they were deliberate design choices, which further show the compromise and multi-role abilities of the Rebels, versus the industrial single-track-mindedness of the Empire design philosophy in Fighters.

I tend to find that there abilities don't mesh very well. Luke is a good example. You want him making those early bombing runs against ships so he can ignore their shields. He's in an X-Wing though which isn't really optimised for that role (despite getting that black anti ship die 'upgrade'). In essence he doesn't really want his escort ability or his four blue anti squadron dice. Dutch Vander has the same problem. He's in a bomber but his ability (and 'upgrade') enhances his dogfighting ability but he's still in a squadron with the heavy keyword. I really feel that FFG had a think about Rebel aces after wave one and did a better job of wave two

Yes, but when you take it from a Wave 1 perspective, Luke needs his 4 Blue Die anti-squadron to peal through TIE Fighters tobe able to get shots on the hull in teh first place.

And wedding Dutch's Ability to a Y-Wing, keeps his cost at a solid 16 points, rather than ballooning up to close to 20 if he was, in say, an X-Wing.

I think they were deliberate design choices, which further show the compromise and multi-role abilities of the Rebels, versus the industrial single-track-mindedness of the Empire design philosophy in Fighters.

Indeed but the longer Luke is engaged with the enemy fighters the less time he has to use his ability which is increasingly in danger of becoming redundant as the game goes on and ships are stripped of shields. You could well end up paying for a slightly tougher X-Wing squadron. The only time Luke has worked for me is when my opponent has pretty much ignored the option to take squadron and I was able to sit him in front of a plodding VSD for turn after turn.

I would have preferred a design choice which complemented the squadrons function. When I first saw the Rebel and the Imperial line up my first though was that the Rebel abilities focused on the individual while the Imperial abilities focused on teamwork. While this isn't always the case (Darth Vader for instance) it does lend certain 'feel' to the aces on both sides.

I tend to find that there abilities don't mesh very well. Luke is a good example. You want him making those early bombing runs against ships so he can ignore their shields. He's in an X-Wing though which isn't really optimised for that role (despite getting that black anti ship die 'upgrade'). In essence he doesn't really want his escort ability or his four blue anti squadron dice. Dutch Vander has the same problem. He's in a bomber but his ability (and 'upgrade') enhances his dogfighting ability but he's still in a squadron with the heavy keyword. I really feel that FFG had a think about Rebel aces after wave one and did a better job of wave two

Yes, but when you take it from a Wave 1 perspective, Luke needs his 4 Blue Die anti-squadron to peal through TIE Fighters tobe able to get shots on the hull in teh first place.

And wedding Dutch's Ability to a Y-Wing, keeps his cost at a solid 16 points, rather than ballooning up to close to 20 if he was, in say, an X-Wing.

I think they were deliberate design choices, which further show the compromise and multi-role abilities of the Rebels, versus the industrial single-track-mindedness of the Empire design philosophy in Fighters.

Indeed but the longer Luke is engaged with the enemy fighters the less time he has to use his ability which is increasingly in danger of becoming redundant as the game goes on and ships are stripped of shields. You could well end up paying for a slightly tougher X-Wing squadron. The only time Luke has worked for me is when my opponent has pretty much ignored the option to take squadron and I was able to sit him in front of a plodding VSD for turn after turn.

I would have preferred a design choice which complemented the squadrons function. When I first saw the Rebel and the Imperial line up my first though was that the Rebel abilities focused on the individual while the Imperial abilities focused on teamwork. While this isn't always the case (Darth Vader for instance) it does lend certain 'feel' to the aces on both sides.

You could choose to not alpha strike with Luke and hang him back for a bombing opportunity. Escort just means that you csnnot protect him with escorts. It doesnt mean you have to suicide him. If you want a suicidal escort take wedge.

You could choose to not alpha strike with Luke and hang him back for a bombing opportunity. Escort just means that you csnnot protect him with escorts. It doesnt mean you have to suicide him. If you want a suicidal escort take wedge.

Hanging back is fine but you're still facing the prospect of diminishing returns. Once a ships shields are stripped a bombing run from Luke is no more effective than a Y-Wing that costs half his points. When I look at Luke I see a squadron that wants to move up and get an early game 'through shield' crit (preferably with Dodonna as your admiral). If he isn't getting into positions to use his ability then he's not really returning the investment that you've made in him.

You could choose to not alpha strike with Luke and hang him back for a bombing opportunity. Escort just means that you csnnot protect him with escorts. It doesnt mean you have to suicide him. If you want a suicidal escort take wedge.

Hanging back is fine but you're still facing the prospect of diminishing returns. Once a ships shields are stripped a bombing run from Luke is no more effective than a Y-Wing that costs half his points. When I look at Luke I see a squadron that wants to move up and get an early game 'through shield' crit (preferably with Dodonna as your admiral). If he isn't getting into positions to use his ability then he's not really returning the investment that you've made in him.

Very true and valid point. But there are ways to get Luke into a good position for accomplishing the early alpha strike against an enemy ship, especially with the new FCT/FC combo.

With Wave 1 (and really wave 2 also because that's where I came in), I used Adar to pass him along, usually round 2 after getting a good setup in, giving him an effective bombing range of about 7 (skewered as the actual radius may be). He becomes a solo striker at that point, but getting the right crit on a ship that early could be devastating.

Waves 3 and 4 really just made fast bombers ridiculous. Luke could potentially get a shot on ship in the first round now. With a reroll.

I think they were deliberate design choices, which further show the compromise and multi-role abilities of the Rebels, versus the industrial single-track-mindedness of the Empire design philosophy in Fighters.

Kahadras, on 26 Sept 2016 - 4:55 PM, said:

When I first saw the Rebel and the Imperial line up my first though was that the Rebel abilities focused on the individual while the Imperial abilities focused on teamwork. While this isn't always the case (Darth Vader for instance) it does lend certain 'feel' to the aces on both sides.

I agree with both of these statements.

Luke is special and I agree the Escort hurts him more than helps as a bomber... The other thing about Luke and diminishing returns is true enough; however, consider that he doesn't care which hull zone he attacks (I usually never drain every hull zone of shields when attacking ships). But at a cost of just 7 points for the brace tokens and the no-shields thing and black bomber die totally seems worth it for me. I see Luke as an X-wing that after the squadron work is done (if still alive because he is usually target 1), can still get black bomber dice shots in on their remaining ships.

I personally love Dutch with his ability to lock down Mauler's special. It's just fun to watch them grumble.

Again, it's a thing. Personal taste, et al. I like Pilsner, others prefer rum.

I agree with this.

With only 5 bombers, I would not take precision strike. You will get your butt handed to you by Rhymer balls or a Rebel meat spear.

Here is my squad screen for precision strike (meat spear):

4X

3B

2Y

Jan

133

9/10 bombers and enough anti-squad to bring down nearly any squad screen. Swap out Jan for a different squad if you insist on not bringing her. Maybe 2 more Y wings or upgrading to some aces.

I would swap Keyan out for Nym, especially if you fit Toryn Farr and BCC in. Being able to selectively strip out enemy defense tokens is a hugely useful ability. And, Nym is faster with more hull.