Hi everyone

As per RAW, whenever you got more damage than your WT you go down (incapacitated) and got critical. While Minions and Rivals just are "dead" (or inconscious, or out of combat or whatever), for PC and Nemesis that's a big difference

PC got the real problem with that, 'cause they live outside single session (everyone hope... ) and even single combat so if incapacitated can get a stimpak, a medicine roll, or something else to stand up and still continue playing (with critical hit impairing, sometimes, but still...)

Nemesis on the other hands, when exceed their WT they go incapacitated. And they are virtually removed from the game. Most of players will go close and finish them; even if there are a Jedi who does'nt whant conflict, or really could benefit from having him/her/it alive, the downed nemesis can't do anything, can't fight back, can't stand up without medical assistance, and is technically out of combat.

if they survive, they will come back in the future and can assume they are healed by critical and/or have some narrative only consequencies (ie the Imperial Arch-villain has now a big scar on the face and a cybernetic hand; the Gand Bounty Hunter hiss everytime he speak, and will hunt down the PC for revenge, etc)

So, what's the point in rolling critical for a downed Nemesis?

I assume is ok for nemesis' vehicle/starship, 'cause could be salvaged by PC and thus knowing if the ship is fully functional or a piece of garbage could make the difference

but for standard nemesis?

or there is something i forgot/miss/misunderstood that will permit an incapacitated nemesis to stand down and fight back with huge difficulties, or at least retreat and/or give orders?

Sounds like this is more a problem at your table than a problem with the rules. If your players are so eager to murder every helpless enemy in sight there isn't much point in rolling crits for a downed Nemesis. And if that behaviour isn't a problem for you, then that's just one less roll to make.

If, on the other hand, this isn't the kind of behaviour you want from your players, the easiest way to discourage it in-game is some good, oldfashioned "what goes around comes around". The next time a PC drops, have an NPC walk over and shoot him in the head. Once you've killed off 3-4 characters in this way the rest will get the message.

If you really want a Nemesis NPCs to survive without curbing the players' behaviour, you can just stage the fight in a location where they won't be able to reach the body. Have him fall off a cliff, disappear in a raging river or be carried away by a large beast.

Personally I've never had this problem since my players aren't murder hobos, and also they're smart enough to know that killing an NPC doesn't actually save them any future trouble. I'll just make up a new NPC and use him/her instead of the old one. It's not like there's a limit on how many of them I can create, after all.

that's not a problem about murdering a nemesis. if they can and wish, they may do it.

just a question if is worth rolling critical for downed nemesis, or if they are just out of combat while at more wound than WT

Not if your players are going to kill them anyway.

that's not a problem about murdering a nemesis. if they can and wish, they may do it.

just a question if is worth rolling critical for downed nemesis, or if they are just out of combat while at more wound than WT

Not if your players are going to kill them anyway.

Agreed. If they're going to double-tap, coup-de-grace, or otherwise Finish Him! , then rolling a critical is unnecessary. And, if you're OK with it, no reason to think beyond it. Just keep the action going.

If you don't want your P.C.s to constantly be bloodthirsty murder-hobos, you can run it differently. Let them make an simple attack roll on the incapacitated nemesis, and roll for the critical injury (automatic on any hit once over WT) I'd still do this openly, but my group is pretty good about role-playing vs. gaming the system. Alternately, you could roll the critical injury secretly, not letting them know if a fatal result was rolled or not. In movies, both nemeses and heroes manage to survive things most would not. If your party then goes on a meta-game habit of slitting throats and examining to make sure everyone is completely dead (medicine check), then remember that this takes time. There's a great thread on Looting Bodies that covers much of the same ground with regards to things that can happen while PCs are busy double-tapping.

I personally do not view slaughter of helpless enemies to be a heroic value. My approach as GM, though is that I allow it, I just don't encourage it. If it gets extreme, there are a few ways I would deal with it.

1. The simplest and most effective is to talk with the players. This goes for so many issues that GMs bring up. I let them know that I am more likely to reward "heroic" behavior, which includes showing mercy. I also add the meta-game fact that Krieger22 mentioned: killing this nemesis does not necessarily mean that you'll never see his like again.
2. Mission Parameters: Even in Edge of the Empire, the most cutthroat of the systems, you can introduce mission requirements that restrict wanton killing. "I want them alive." "Bounty is for live capture only" "General Dodonna has issued orders to accept all surrenders." etc.
3. Carrot/Stick: You can introduce other rewards for showing mercy or punitive effects for being a [jerk]. A party that goes around making sure everyone is dead might suffer penalties on social checks, ranging from a setback because the guy you're dealing with "knows a killer when he sees one", to spending a DP to upgrade the check, with the possibility that the guy you're trying to hire you introducing himself with "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya..." Conversely, sparing someone's life could actually come back in a good way. When I ran Jewel of Yavin ,

   Aris Shen tried stopping the PC pilot/gunslinger, and he ended up maiming her arm on a critical injury roll. They ended up taking her hostage, to no avail, and later dropped her off at a remote starport. I decided that she was just as glad to be away from her father and husband, and listed her on the NPC roster as neutral. That campaign has wrapped since then, but had the opportunity come up, she could even have reappeared as a reluctant, but helpful, contact.

4. Leave: I have used the nuclear option once. There was a player that I felt was disrupting and ruining the game for others, and for me. The other players were bothered, but not enough to want to do anything about it. So, I simply announced that I was done GMing and found another group.

edit: fixed a type, put Jewel of Yavin info under a Spoiler tab, and changed wording of a comment that referenced Wheaton's Law to say "jerk" instead.

Hi everyone

As per RAW, whenever you got more damage than your WT you go down (incapacitated) and got critical. While Minions and Rivals just are "dead" (or inconscious, or out of combat or whatever), for PC and Nemesis that's a big difference

PC got the real problem with that, 'cause they live outside single session (everyone hope... ) and even single combat so if incapacitated can get a stimpak, a medicine roll, or something else to stand up and still continue playing (with critical hit impairing, sometimes, but still...)

Nemesis on the other hands, when exceed their WT they go incapacitated. And they are virtually removed from the game. Most of players will go close and finish them; even if there are a Jedi who does'nt whant conflict, or really could benefit from having him/her/it alive, the downed nemesis can't do anything, can't fight back, can't stand up without medical assistance, and is technically out of combat.

if they survive, they will come back in the future and can assume they are healed by critical and/or have some narrative only consequencies (ie the Imperial Arch-villain has now a big scar on the face and a cybernetic hand; the Gand Bounty Hunter hiss everytime he speak, and will hunt down the PC for revenge, etc)

So, what's the point in rolling critical for a downed Nemesis?

I assume is ok for nemesis' vehicle/starship, 'cause could be salvaged by PC and thus knowing if the ship is fully functional or a piece of garbage could make the difference

but for standard nemesis?

or there is something i forgot/miss/misunderstood that will permit an incapacitated nemesis to stand down and fight back with huge difficulties, or at least retreat and/or give orders?

I have the players roll for the nemesis just to see what happens. I dont often have a nemesis show up in combat more than once, but it is fun for the players to see what they did

If they need to capture them alive I'd definitely have them roll.

A lot of it depends on the what's and whys.

Being a commando rebellion unit, often the circumstances are not in our favour favour to spend an action to end someone. Tightly packed battles, run and guns with tight timelines, or more often then not the inquisitor fighting the party is an absolute badass, something that the party will struggle to beat unless they bring a full game. Had that one time where the most of the party dueled an inquisitor without having a LS duelest present, it got pretty messy pretty quickly the first exchange, duel-phasing someone who relied on defence dice, though thankfully no one was killed and the party was able to escape into a ready ship with some really nasty wounds. Basically, if your sessions de-evolve into grind fests when they should be in a flowing narrative full of moments, something aren't right. Unless of course it is intended to be a pitched battle, in which case defeating the leader is much, MUCH more appealing.

And a lot of the imperial officers appear often; but often in situations where the deck is heavily stacked in their favour. Sure the stealth team could blow his head off, but those MK2 super stormtroopers would have something to say about it. On the flipside however award cunning; lets say he's on a train with 12 of the guys. Defeating them in straight combat? Impossible, but a little bit of savatage to ensure they don't reach their destination....

Doesn't matter whether it's crime bosses, bounty hunters or whatever. Killing everyone they meet is fairly sound as most of the time in the movies, villains simply die when they are killed. So make sure they always have two plans, one for whatever they want to do, and the thing they want to do when things are going "terrible" for them.

Ok thank you

one of my mate is playing a Jedi, so really i got no need to say them "stop coup-de-grac'ing nemesis". If they will go in a senseless murdering spree, he will face consequencies, and so the entire group ('cause he's roleplaying it and ALWAYS blame other NPC about... one time stopped talking for a whole session to the other Characther, while holding a grudge and also refusing giving them some help with mechanics rolls 'cause he gone murdering imperial minions...)

it was just a question if i understood correctly mechanics about nemesis, so i can start considering "downed" nemesis like "out of combat" NPC, or if they had to continue playing and could do something else

Honestly, I'm not sure what the RAW is, but I think it is really just your(GM's) call. I've always considered a nemesis that has exceeded their wounds threshold as dead unless the PC's where using stun and doing strain damage.

The only time I might change that is if the combat was really short and I wanted a minion group to heal them and let the combat go a few more rounds, but honestly this has never happened in any of my games that I can recall.

I've always considered a nemesis that has exceeded their wounds threshold as dead unless the PC's where using stun and doing strain damage.

RAW they're dead unless the GM decides they're not, which also means that the GM is the one who decides whether PCs finishing off downed enemies will even come up as an issue.