Wave 9 is out, and with it a plethora of new lists have been popping up everywhere. One that I have noticed a few times is a Fenn and Dengar, or Fenngar, list that somewhat mirrors the Super Dash archetype, except with a pinch more Ace thrown in for flavour.

Now, both of these scummy dudes are PS9 and make a living of positioning for the perfect shot (or lack thereof). So, it goes without saying that they would definitely enjoy a healthy initiative bid to get the drop on other pesky Aces that may or may not be flying around. Looking at you Soontir.

When you put these two guys together with just their bear minimums, or at least what I consider minimum, they come out to an even 90 points. This leaves only their ordnance slots and Dengar's illicit left to be filled, which are not really that important.

So, finally to the point. If you slap flechette torpedoes on Fenn (only ones worth it imo), and slap a Burnout Slam or Inertial Dampeners on Dengar, you come up with 93 points. 36 on Fenn and 57 on Dengar. The way the math works out, if either of these ships are left on the board at the end of the game with any amount of health, they will always beat out a Soontir or other 36 point ship. Heck, Fenn will beat out a 43 point ship as well.

Because you don't lose your bid points unless you lose the match, those points get tacked on with whatever you have left on the board. Not only will you beat out any sane person when it comes to the initiative bid, you'll also be able to dance circles around Soontir or the likes if it comes down to it and win.

Now, the question is, are those 7 points too valuable to let go to waste like that? Would they be better off spent elsewhere?

First order of business: Has Fenngar been suggested as a name for that? If not, I nominate Fenngar to be a thing.

To answer your actual question: I think if the list works, if it's not lacking in anything you need to do in a match in order to win, then it's fine. Yeah, the bid is ridiculous, but that's not an issue if the list isn't really missing anything.

I say that because one of my friends and I used to play at 120 points a lot, and he had a Miranda/Horton/Poe list that, the first time he flew it, he forgot to bring the Bandit Z-95 that should have been on the list. I never once beat that list, even when he forgot the Z-95. So he had a 12-point bid and beat me.

There was a double Phantom list out there before the nerf that clocked in at 86 points -- adding in the extra TIE Fighter basically meant losing MOV each round that you otherwise wouldn't. So depending on how powerful Fenn and Dengar are, it could work.

Yes, please bid that low. I'll just be over here with quickdraw and my full 100 points worth of squad.

Assuming you're starting with this for your 90 points:

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v4!s!212:18,-1:43:15:;171:18,-1,-1,122,118,-1:29:3:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

Problem of the list isn't how much to bid (i'd go 97 with plasma EM and glitter on Dengar) but that both of them lack the evade action. Sometimes there is nothing you can do to avoid getting shot at and need to tank the damage. The same reason why i want to try Fenn Teroch Manaroo but wont.

Fenn has too many weaknesses to be half of your list.

Dengar isn't anywhere near as strong without Manaroo backing him up while he gluts himself on stress via Zuckuss.

If I saw a two ship list with them across the board, I'd be pumped, even knowing they'll likely have higher PS than my current list-of-choice.

The list has no control (other than maybe not wanting to shoot Dengar in his face?), no real defense (neither ship wants to be a pure arc dodger), and not enough firepower, barring specific situations (Fenn @ range 1 and Dengar's opponent taking shots at him while in arc).



A lot of why Dengaroo works is that Manaroo isn't in the fight, so enemies are either taking the gross shot at Dengar or skipping the shot entirely. Fenn & Dengar will be in the fight too much for this to be the case.

You're better off pruning and trying to at least fit in a blocker, which is something else this list SORELY lacks.

Oh, and any enemy running intel agent is going to make you have an incredibly bad time.

Dengaroo basically has like 8 points of extra....

Wave 9 is out, and with it a plethora of new lists have been popping up everywhere. One that I have noticed a few times is a Fenn and Dengar, or Fenngar, list that somewhat mirrors the Super Dash archetype, except with a pinch more Ace thrown in for flavour.

Now, both of these scummy dudes are PS9 and make a living of positioning for the perfect shot (or lack thereof). So, it goes without saying that they would definitely enjoy a healthy initiative bid to get the drop on other pesky Aces that may or may not be flying around. Looking at you Soontir.

When you put these two guys together with just their bear minimums, or at least what I consider minimum, they come out to an even 90 points. This leaves only their ordnance slots and Dengar's illicit left to be filled, which are not really that important.

So, finally to the point. If you slap flechette torpedoes on Fenn (only ones worth it imo), and slap a Burnout Slam or Inertial Dampeners on Dengar, you come up with 93 points. 36 on Fenn and 57 on Dengar. The way the math works out, if either of these ships are left on the board at the end of the game with any amount of health, they will always beat out a Soontir or other 36 point ship. Heck, Fenn will beat out a 43 point ship as well.

Because you don't lose your bid points unless you lose the match, those points get tacked on with whatever you have left on the board. Not only will you beat out any sane person when it comes to the initiative bid, you'll also be able to dance circles around Soontir or the likes if it comes down to it and win.

Now, the question is, are those 7 points too valuable to let go to waste like that? Would they be better off spent elsewhere?

I run it with flechette torpedoes on both ships and some illicit on dengar. Ran rigged cargo for a few games, but never actually dropped it, so swapped it out for slicer tools (since k4 + ptl means I'm not hurting for actions) to see if that comes in useful. Leaves me at 95 points. So far I haven't run into another list with the same bid.

Yes, please bid that low. I'll just be over here with quickdraw and my full 100 points worth of squad.

Go for it. If you're lucky, quickdraw MIGHT kill fenn before he explodes. Hope the rest of your list can deal with dengar. For that matter, depending on the rest of your list I could always just use my initiative bid to take initaitive and move before quickdraw and now his whole shtick is mostly useless.

Assuming you're starting with this for your 90 points:

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v4!s!212:18,-1:43:15:;171:18,-1,-1,122,118,-1:29:3:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

Problem of the list isn't how much to bid (i'd go 97 with plasma EM and glitter on Dengar) but that both of them lack the evade action. Sometimes there is nothing you can do to avoid getting shot at and need to tank the damage. The same reason why i want to try Fenn Teroch Manaroo but wont.

So far it hasn't been a huge issue. I'd certainly LIKE to have the evade action on fenn, but the one time I've lost so far was because I screwed up and flew fenn over a debris field so I didn't get any actions. Evade action woudln't have done me any good.

Fenn has too many weaknesses to be half of your list.

Dengar isn't anywhere near as strong without Manaroo backing him up while he gluts himself on stress via Zuckuss.

If I saw a two ship list with them across the board, I'd be pumped, even knowing they'll likely have higher PS than my current list-of-choice.

The list has no control (other than maybe not wanting to shoot Dengar in his face?), no real defense (neither ship wants to be a pure arc dodger), and not enough firepower, barring specific situations (Fenn @ range 1 and Dengar's opponent taking shots at him while in arc).

A lot of why Dengaroo works is that Manaroo isn't in the fight, so enemies are either taking the gross shot at Dengar or skipping the shot entirely. Fenn & Dengar will be in the fight too much for this to be the case.

You're better off pruning and trying to at least fit in a blocker, which is something else this list SORELY lacks.

Oh, and any enemy running intel agent is going to make you have an incredibly bad time.

So far I've mostly run fenn as bait. he tries to draw opponents out to chase him, then turns tail while dengar moves in starts shooting. if they go after dengar instead, I can switch it up and use fenn as the attacker. Flechette torpedoes give some minor control against aces. Firepower is fine. Dengar's shooting with tl/focus 90% of the time, fenn can fairly easy get into range 1 if you want and 5 dice hurt.

You don't need manaroo for dengar to be good. the list basically works like dash/corran, but dengar is higher PS with no range 1 bubble. No hlc, but I spend a lot of itme attacking at range 1 so it's 4 dice anyway.

So far I've mostly run fenn as bait. he tries to draw opponents out to chase him, then turns tail while dengar moves in starts shooting. if they go after dengar instead, I can switch it up and use fenn as the attacker. Flechette torpedoes give some minor control against aces. Firepower is fine. Dengar's shooting with tl/focus 90% of the time, fenn can fairly easy get into range 1 if you want and 5 dice hurt.

You don't need manaroo for dengar to be good. the list basically works like dash/corran, but dengar is higher PS with no range 1 bubble. No hlc, but I spend a lot of itme attacking range 1 so it's 4 dice anyway.

This. Dengaroo is fine and dandy, but that Dengar is built a lot differently than this one. Super Dengar, as I've been calling him, is essentially a really big arc dodger. Sure, there qill be times where you can't dodge all the arcs, or you'll be up against another 360 pancake. But it isn't about dodging all damage. Rather, just enough.

I have also considered running this list with Tel Trevura instead of Dengar. Hull Upgrade, Title, VI, Dengar crew, pain bot. Essentially just fat han at that point though.

That's the beautiful duality to quickdraw though, if you move first, congrats now a ps 9 is tracking your movement all game. If you choose to move second, congrats, now quickdraw is shooting you without tokens. Quickdraw and 2 defenders will be a thing I'm pretty sure. 2 SF and a defender will probably be a thing as well. Your list will definitely be a thing as well. (I mean soontir decimator has been around how long?)

Against other turrets the goal becomes keeping them in arc indtead of arcdodging. If you get two shots to their one youll most likely come out ahead. Ditto if you cant avoid all arcs. Basically, avoid being shot if possible. If not possible, aim to be able to revenge shot

So far I've mostly run fenn as bait. he tries to draw opponents out to chase him, then turns tail while dengar moves in starts shooting. if they go after dengar instead, I can switch it up and use fenn as the attacker. Flechette torpedoes give some minor control against aces. Firepower is fine. Dengar's shooting with tl/focus 90% of the time, fenn can fairly easy get into range 1 if you want and 5 dice hurt.

You don't need manaroo for dengar to be good. the list basically works like dash/corran, but dengar is higher PS with no range 1 bubble. No hlc, but I spend a lot of itme attacking range 1 so it's 4 dice anyway.

This. Dengaroo is fine and dandy, but that Dengar is built a lot differently than this one. Super Dengar, as I've been calling him, is essentially a really big arc dodger. Sure, there qill be times where you can't dodge all the arcs, or you'll be up against another 360 pancake. But it isn't about dodging all damage. Rather, just enough.

I have also considered running this list with Tel Trevura instead of Dengar. Hull Upgrade, Title, VI, Dengar crew, pain bot. Essentially just fat han at that point though.

That's the beautiful duality to quickdraw though, if you move first, congrats now a ps 9 is tracking your movement all game. If you choose to move second, congrats, now quickdraw is shooting you without tokens. Quickdraw and 2 defenders will be a thing I'm pretty sure. 2 SF and a defender will probably be a thing as well. Your list will definitely be a thing as well. (I mean soontir decimator has been around how long?)

Quickdraws lack of boost so he cant arcdodge effectively means im not that scared of him if i move first. And with 2 agility and no autothrusters hes gonna die quick. Theres a decent chance he only gets off one free shot from his ability. Heck, if I move second its possible to strip his shields before he ever gets to jump up and DO an activation phase attack.