i have 13 pts to give a black/blue mc30 the 2 extra black dice in front upgrade or.... do i just make it a red/black with TRC? using Dodonna and 3 TRC vettes.

i have 13 pts to give a black/blue mc30 the 2 extra black dice in front upgrade or.... do i just make it a red/black with TRC? using Dodonna and 3 TRC vettes.

Post the full list in fleet forum and we might just help.

With three trc vettes i would go scout and trc's

Dodonna

APT.

In order of priority:

Ordnance Experts

Assault Proton Torpedoes

H9 Turbolasers

Admonition

Skilled First Officer

Can't agree hard enough with Ardaedhel. SFO really adds a whole new dimension to these beauties. My latest Cracken build has two of them with all the upgrades mentioned (non Admo has Advanced Projectors), and man, do they sing.

Not considered SFO for these before - how's it particularly good with MC30s?

Not considered SFO for these before - how's it particularly good with MC30s?

It's good when you're sliced. MC30 typically make high-speed attack runs, and it's vitally important to be able to control that attack run/reposition afterwards.

SFO can also allow you to 'fish' up a CF at the right moment, then arrange for another Nav for the turn after.

It is helpful with slicers and good for feeling more comfortable throwing a few more CF commands (I usually only get one), as Green Knight said.

However, one other added bonus is it lets you reset your command stack, as you burn a dial then use the last one. It lets you start fresh with commands if you, say, burn it on turn 4, then you can throw some engineering, squadron, or anything else you might need for the final turns.

That is genius. Sold!

It is helpful with slicers and good for feeling more comfortable throwing a few more CF commands (I usually only get one), as Green Knight said.

However, one other added bonus is it lets you reset your command stack, as you burn a dial then use the last one. It lets you start fresh with commands if you, say, burn it on turn 4, then you can throw some engineering, squadron, or anything else you might need for the final turns.

Totally agree with this, SFO is best used on ships with Command 2.

Tried it on a Neb and it worked wonderfull to get the right command at the right time + reseting the whole stack to repair etc...

Som no love for Foresight over Admonition as a title? I've not gotten an MC30 on the table yet, but that double Evade/Redirect seems kinda nice.

Som no love for Foresight over Admonition as a title? I've not gotten an MC30 on the table yet, but that double Evade/Redirect seems kinda nice.

Foresight is great IF you run Mon Mothma or have enough deployments to guarantee you can kite the whole game without getting intercepted. Admonition is loads better because you can discard to cancel even if your tokens are accuracied away, and you can discard to cancel at close range. Even with Mon Mothma, Admonition is better, so I'd only roll Foresight if you are running a 2nd 30. Advanced Projectors is cheaper and a better version of Foresight's redirect ability, so if I run a 2nd 30 without Mon Mothma, I do Advanced Projectors instead of Foresight.

On 9/24/2016 at 9:27 PM, coastcityo said:

Som no love for Foresight over Admonition as a title? I've not gotten an MC30 on the table yet, but that double Evade/Redirect seems kinda nice.

I thought the same thing when I first started using them. Foresight looks good on paper, and really, it is: it's fun, and it is good in specific situations. It loves Mon Mothma and ECMs.

I ran into two major problems with Foresight .

First, its only unique utility is the double evade thing (AP does the redirect thing better and cheaper and non-uniquely), and at its optimal range that piece of it is useless.

Second, it is way too easy to completely shut down. The redirect portion suffers by extension from the godawful XI7/AP ruling--the only difference is that Foresight , unlike AP, is completely negated by XI7, rather than just mostly negated. The evade side offers no protection from accuracies--if your evades get acc'd, gg, sorry you spent all those points on that expensive unique title that did nothing for you.

Admonition , on the other hand, is completely immune to accuracies, XI7, HTT, or any other current form of defense mitigation (with the minor exception of IO). It can mimic the unique, evade-focused piece of Foresight , and in some ways does it better than Foresight , in that it is not limited by range. It is always useful, and always useable. It lets you eat several rounds of bomber shots with relative impunity. It lets you selectively remove that Screeded black die that's triggering APT. It completely shuts down Luke Skywalker.

The big thing I had to get over when I tried out Admonition was the idea that your defense tokens are precious. The card was designed with the idea that discarding defense tokens is a major downside... and it is, but much less so on this ship than on any other . The MC30, especially the Torpedo Frigate, is not a stand-and-fight ship. It is a throw-the-cargo-overboard-and-punch-it ship. When I'm making an attack run with my Admonition , this is what I picture:

You don't hang around and trade shots. You don't wear down their defenses or play the attrition game. That's how you lose MC30's. You get in as fast as you possibly can; you shoot for one, maybe two rounds, and then you cheese it.

When you consider this kind of an engagement profile, the ability to turn your defense tokens into ablative armor suddenly becomes super attractive. Admonition , in the simplest sense, basically gives you 4 extra hull points. On a 4-hull ship, that's a 100% improvement.

And that, sir, in way too many words, is why Admonition gets so much love around here.

Bonus edit: MRW starting an Admonition attack run, because the picture really didn't capture it:

Som no love for Foresight over Admonition as a title? I've not gotten an MC30 on the table yet, but that double Evade/Redirect seems kinda nice.

I thought the same thing when I first started using them. Foresight looks good on paper, and really, it is: it's fun, and it is good in specific situations. It loves Mon Mothma and ECMs.

I ran into two major problems with Foresight .

First, its only unique utility is the double evade thing (AP does the redirect thing better and cheaper and non-uniquely), and at its optimal range that piece of it is useless.

Second, it is way too easy to completely shut down. The redirect portion suffers by extension from the godawful XI7/AP ruling--the only difference is that Foresight , unlike AP, is completely negated by XI7, rather than just mostly negated. The evade side offers no protection from accuracies--if your evades get acc'd, gg, sorry you spent all those points on that expensive unique title that did nothing for you.

Admonition , on the other hand, is completely immune to accuracies, XI7, HTT, or any other current form of defense mitigation (with the minor exception of IO). It can mimic the unique, evade-focused piece of Foresight , and in some ways does it better than Foresight , in that it is not limited by range. It is always useful, and always useable. It lets you eat several rounds of bomber shots with relative impunity. It lets you selectively remove that Screeded black die that's triggering APT. It completely shuts down Luke Skywalker.

The big thing I had to get over when I tried out Admonition was the idea that your defense tokens are precious. The card was designed with the idea that discarding defense tokens is a major downside... and it is, but much less so on this ship than on any other . The MC30, especially the Torpedo Frigate, is not a stand-and-fight ship. It is a throw-the-cargo-overboard-and-punch-it ship. When I'm making an attack run with my Admonition , this is what I picture:

You don't hang around and trade shots. You don't wear down their defenses or play the attrition game. That's how you lose MC30's. You get in as fast as you possibly can; you shoot for one, maybe two rounds, and then you cheese it.

When you consider this kind of an engagement profile, the ability to turn your defense tokens into ablative armor suddenly becomes super attractive. Admonition , in the simplest sense, basically gives you 4 extra hull points. On a 4-hull ship, that's a 100% improvement.

And that, sir, in way too many words, is why Admonition gets so much love around here.

Well put.

Just to add that it is better than 4 extra hull, in some cases. With an APT hit/crit one token toss is mitigating 3 damage. Honestly, Admonition with Mothma, sometimes an evade reroll/token toss cancel you mitigate far more damage than a brace.

Another good point is your redirects are useless once your shields are gone, so the token toss lets you use those redirects as damage cancelers. I also thought Foresight was better, but it took me about 3 games to realize that Admonition was the star of the show.

Not disputing the primacy of Admonition (i too was initially dazzled by Foresight), but ref. Xi7s, did the FAQ also include Foresight's ability as well?

Som no love for Foresight over Admonition as a title? I've not gotten an MC30 on the table yet, but that double Evade/Redirect seems kinda nice.

Many insightful opinions about Admonition vs. Foresight from Ardaedhel.

Admonition is the biggest pain in the #&* as an Imperial player. Most of the time, it is the last target I choose because it can absorb so much @#$%ing damage.

The only thing I'll add is Lando. For 4 points Lando can give Admonition even more survivability for that attack run. I agree that SFO for 1 is more efficient and more offensive however.

Som no love for Foresight over Admonition as a title? I've not gotten an MC30 on the table yet, but that double Evade/Redirect seems kinda nice.

Many insightful opinions about Admonition vs. Foresight from Ardaedhel.

Admonition is the biggest pain in the #&* as an Imperial player. Most of the time, it is the last target I choose because it can absorb so much @#$%ing damage.

The only thing I'll add is Lando. For 4 points Lando can give Admonition even more survivability for that attack run. I agree that SFO for 1 is more efficient and more offensive however.

Absolutely. The two together are pretty ridiculous.

With three trc vettes i would go scout and trc's

I would second this recommendation. I love the damage output of TRC 30s. Gives you damage you can count on when not in black range, and boosts your torpedo runs' damage significantly. With OE and APTs, an average side shot gets you 7 damage + APT. A front shot averages 5 + APT. That's some serious output that will kill most small ships and put quite a hurt on anything larger. Add an Intel Officer and it becomes twice as mean.

Som no love for Foresight over Admonition as a title? I've not gotten an MC30 on the table yet, but that double Evade/Redirect seems kinda nice.

Foresight is great IF you run Mon Mothma or have enough deployments to guarantee you can kite the whole game without getting intercepted. Admonition is loads better because you can discard to cancel even if your tokens are accuracied away, and you can discard to cancel at close range. Even with Mon Mothma, Admonition is better, so I'd only roll Foresight if you are running a 2nd 30. Advanced Projectors is cheaper and a better version of Foresight's redirect ability , so if I run a 2nd 30 without Mon Mothma, I do Advanced Projectors instead of Foresight.

(My emphasis).

I've seen this mentioned a couple of times in this thread; that AP is a better version of Foresight's redirect. I'm confused by this. I can understand 'better for the cost' but not outright "better".

• Foresight: "...When you resolve the Redirect defense effect, you can choose 1 additional adjacent hull zone to suffer damage."
• Advanced Projectors: "When you resolve the Redirect token effect, you can choose more than one hull zone to suffer damage, which may include a nonadjacent hull zone."

Unless I'm having a stupid, these have the same outcome. AP can only affect one additional hull zone, right? ( I double checked this and Dras is saying the same thing here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/173360-redirect-clarification/)

Is this something to do with another card interaction, like the XI-7 ruling? Has there been any clarification on XI-7 vs Foresight? To me, it seems logical that the interraction will be the same and that seems to be the consensus here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/192761-xi7-and-foresight/

What am I missing?

The non-adjacent bit?

The non-adjacent bit?

*headdesk*

It's been a long weekend! 12 hours of Armada tournament (you were there too, weren't you?) followed by 12 hours of work.

That's totally my excuse.

Unless I'm having a stupid, these have the same outcome. AP can only affect one additional hull zone, right? ( I double checked this and Dras is saying the same thing here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/173360-redirect-clarification/)

No, if you're redirecting 6 points of Damage, and you have APs, and your Enemy does not have XI7s, you can spread that damage around any way you want - THAT is what I am saying.

If you've got Foresight, its only to one additional zone, and that Zone also has to be Adjacent...

Advanced Projectors lets you ignore a bunch of rules:

- Adjacent Zone? Ignored.

- One Zone? Ignored.

The two nice things about Foresight, that balances it against the Advanced Projectors, and gives you an actual reason to consider it in some builds, is that 1) it essentially doubles the effectiveness of Evades, which is nice for when you are positioning at/outside of red range, and rude when running Mothma, and 2) It takes a title slot, and not an otherwise more useful defensive slot. It just depends on the flavor of your build. I've seen an MC30 in an Ackbar fleet who's main job was to wreck anybody to got too close (Vic's, Glads, Raiders), and Foresight was quite rude.

Admonition is arguably a better card, much like Demolisher is better than Insidious, but not always better in every build. I actually prefer Insidious for some support Glad builds; 7 pts cheaper, and the range is nice for cutting Ackbar conga lines or trashing flanking MC30's on torpedo runs...