Stop "fixing" ships with power creeping gimmicks that over-complexify the game, and re-think ship prices.

Edit : anyway, please, anything but S-foils. X-wings are not stupid flapping birds, on combat situations, those things stay open, period.

There seems to be a more fundamental problem with the X-Wing than its cost - and it's the same reason why the Kihraxz, and even the previously solid B-Wing, are suffering at the moment too.

It's simply that Arc Dodging is a more effective strategy than Jousting.

So having a 19-20 point X-Wing that can't tag an arc dodger and gets chewed to pieces by OOA shots isn't a great improvement on a 21 point X-Wing that can't tag an arc dodger and gets chewed to pieces by OOA shots.

One solution is to turn X-Wings into Arc Dodgers, but homogenising the ships so they all work the same way is kind of boring.

Another approach would be to make Arc Dodgers less effective against Jousters. Kind of like how Autothrusters brought back the balance between Arc Dodgers and PWTs by forcing PWTs to play away from their strengths.

So maybe the way to think about it is to make it less attractive for High PS PTL-ing Aces to arc dodge you and force/encourage them to take you on head on - playing to the strengths of jousters.

Something like:

Stabilised Rear Deflectors - Modification

Once per round, when an enemy ship outside your firing arc declares you the target of an attack, if you are within that ship's firing arc, immediately assign it 1 stress token.

You may not equip this upgrade if you have the boost action.

or maybe

Once round, when an enemy ship outside your firing arc declares you the target of an attack, if you are within that ship's firing arc, place 1 additional shield token on your ship card - even if this exceeds your shield value - if the attack does not hit immediately remove the shield token.

You may not equip this upgrade if you have the boost action.

This is a good idea for a modification for any jouster type ship. I like the 2nd one better though. It might be too much to punish a ship for arc dodging. But helping a ship that got arc dodger might be ok. And it would definitely help low PS generics more. It probably needs to be tweaked a bit, but it is intriguing.

Release a 2nd ed

or

Dynamic Seasonal Ship Re-pricing

This.

Stop "fixing" ships with power creeping gimmicks that over-complexify the game, and re-think ship prices.

Edit : anyway, please, anything but S-foils. X-wings are not stupid flapping birds, on combat situations, those things stay open, period.

(Hence why my S-Foil idea let you be able to move with them closed and dart into the fray. Then pop them open and blast something. Then fly off and close. This was my style in Rouge Squadron)

Release a 2nd ed

or

Dynamic Seasonal Ship Re-pricing

This.

Stop "fixing" ships with power creeping gimmicks that over-complexify the game, and re-think ship prices.

Edit : anyway, please, anything but S-foils. X-wings are not stupid flapping birds, on combat situations, those things stay open, period.

I would have to disagree. In all the Rouge Squadron games i used both open and closed S-Foils muktiple times every level. The extra burst of speed helped keep up with the Imperial fighters. Then you square them up, open your S-Foils, and light em up.

(Hence why my S-Foil idea let you be able to move with them closed and dart into the fray. Then pop them open and blast something. Then fly off and close. This was my style in Rouge Squadron)

Just forget these sh*tty casual console games and get to X-wing / TIE fighter

X-wings aren't bloody pigeons.

Release a 2nd ed

or

Dynamic Seasonal Ship Re-pricing

This.

Stop "fixing" ships with power creeping gimmicks that over-complexify the game, and re-think ship prices.

Edit : anyway, please, anything but S-foils. X-wings are not stupid flapping birds, on combat situations, those things stay open, period.

I would have to disagree. In all the Rouge Squadron games i used both open and closed S-Foils muktiple times every level. The extra burst of speed helped keep up with the Imperial fighters. Then you square them up, open your S-Foils, and light em up.

(Hence why my S-Foil idea let you be able to move with them closed and dart into the fray. Then pop them open and blast something. Then fly off and close. This was my style in Rouge Squadron)

Just forget these sh*tty casual console games and get to X-wing / TIE fighter

X-wings aren't bloody pigeons.

(and on occasion in the movies)

I don't think so. In the movies, open S-foils are for combat, closed for navigation. These are not flaps.

T-65B X-Wing

Title

T-65 X-Wing Only - -1 point.

When an enemy ship at range 1-3 has declared a target, or is declared the target of an attack, you may spend a target lock, focus, or evade token to remove a token from the selected enemy ship.

I don't take credit for this, but someone suggested it to me awhile ago, and making the X-Wing a token stripping ship that requires the spending of tokens would give it a unique place in the meta as well as not overbuff it (since you are spending your own token). It also synergises well with most X-Wing pilots; Wes can therefore strip 2 tokens, but it costs him a reduction in dice quality. Garven can spend his focus and still pass it on to someone else. Hobbie strips stress when spending a target lock so he can still remove his stress when performing this ability. The only people who don't directly benefit from it are Biggs, Wedge, Luke, and Porkins. However they would benefit indirectly, particularly Biggs.

Is it solid? I don't know, that would require testing, but I think it's better than an S-Foils card which makes no sense.

(and on occasion in the movies)

I don't think so. In the movies, open S-foils are for combat, closed for navigation. These are not flaps.

While I agree and as much as I hate the idea of flapping s-foils on an x-wing; I hate the idea of "Rouge" squadron so much more. Rogue squadron on the other hand makes sense.

T-65 X Wing

Title.

Rebellion only. X Wing only.

-4 points

This card had a negative squad point cost. You must equip a torpedo upgrade, paying the full squad point cost.

Want a 20 point rookie with IA? You got it.

Want to make the awesome but expensive X Wing aces cheaper by two points? Fine.

Want Wedge, Wes or Luke to have a high PS Torpedo alpha? Go ahead.

Want a fix that encourages fluffy list building? Sorted.

Only downside I can see is a two point price cut to Biggs that he doesn't need, and FFG have to think long and hard before designing any new, compatible 1 or zero point torps ala bomb load out.

Man, every time there is a post about my beloved T-65s all the whining pours out of the posts like it's a bad child's Christmas list...

Sure FFG, we NEED free torps, free astromech, and by all means insure that any time a modification card states "discard"....the T-65s don't need to.

If WE don't get these much needed fixes, a T-65 will never, ever, ever be on the winning side of a tourney mat. And whatever you stupid designers at FFG do, don't you dare tell us T-65s are in winning squads; we don't believe you. The ships suck!

There.....now I sound like a member of the team "fix my X-wing whaaaaaaaah!"

I'm going to go play a few games of X-wing; and fly my Wedge, Luke, and Portkins squad....cause I'm that stupid.

(and on occasion in the movies)

I don't think so. In the movies, open S-foils are for combat, closed for navigation. These are not flaps.

(and on occasion in the movies)

I don't think so. In the movies, open S-foils are for combat, closed for navigation. These are not flaps.

Poe closed them mid combat to slip into the starkiller base 'reactor'.

Stop "fixing" ships with power creeping gimmicks that over-complexify the game, and re-think ship prices.

Edit : anyway, please, anything but S-foils. X-wings are not stupid flapping birds, on combat situations, those things stay open, period.

There seems to be a more fundamental problem with the X-Wing than its cost - and it's the same reason why the Kihraxz, and even the previously solid B-Wing, are suffering at the moment too.

It's simply that Arc Dodging is a more effective strategy than Jousting.

So having a 19-20 point X-Wing that can't tag an arc dodger and gets chewed to pieces by OOA shots isn't a great improvement on a 21 point X-Wing that can't tag an arc dodger and gets chewed to pieces by OOA shots.

One solution is to turn X-Wings into Arc Dodgers, but homogenising the ships so they all work the same way is kind of boring.

Another approach would be to make Arc Dodgers less effective against Jousters. Kind of like how Autothrusters brought back the balance between Arc Dodgers and PWTs by forcing PWTs to play away from their strengths.

So maybe the way to think about it is to make it less attractive for High PS PTL-ing Aces to arc dodge you and force/encourage them to take you on head on - playing to the strengths of jousters.

Something like:

Stabilised Rear Deflectors - Modification

Once per round, when an enemy ship outside your firing arc declares you the target of an attack, if you are within that ship's firing arc, immediately assign it 1 stress token.

You may not equip this upgrade if you have the boost action.

or maybe

Once round, when an enemy ship outside your firing arc declares you the target of an attack, if you are within that ship's firing arc, place 1 additional shield token on your ship card - even if this exceeds your shield value - if the attack does not hit immediately remove the shield token.

You may not equip this upgrade if you have the boost action.

Theres a problem here - Biggs... once again he creates an issue with design space for the rebels.

Personally I would like to see a card like:

Title

Resistance Refit

X-Wing Only

Your ship adds Boost to it's action bar and increases it's shield value by 1 (To a maximum of 3)

3 Points

----

Wording makes it unusable on the T-70

gives it valuable re positioning capability

And using Luke and Poe as reference points puts them on almost the same ground (In extremely similar machines) Making Luke as (if not more) competitive than Poe due to his inherent ability always working on defense

I like the idea of turning T-65s into T-70s to save the old pilots, but the T-70 is supposed to be a better, more expensive ship...

I also actually like the S-foils idea IF IT'S DONE RIGHT! It should be like a cloak action - closed S-foils can't attack.

Closed S-foils

Title T-65 X-Wing only dual card

You may not perform primary weapon attacks.

Increase your agility value by 1.

Treat ALL ships as if they were at range 3 of you.

Action: flip this card

Open S-foils

Title T-65 X-Wing only dual card

Action: place a focus token on this card.

You may spend focus tokens on this card anytime.

Do not discard those tokens at the end of the round.

This card may not hold more than three tokens.

If this card has three focus tokens on it, you may spend

those tokens to flip this card.

Closed doesn't help Biggs (friendlies at range 3 too), and X-Wings won't "flap" because it takes four actions to flip backand forth.

That being said, I prefer

Dual-Linked Firing System

Title T-65 X-Wing only

Decrease your primary weapon value by 1.

You may perform two attacks per round.

And

Quad-Linked Firing System

Title T-65 X-Wing only

Increase your primary weapon value by 1.

At the start of each round, roll a green die.

On an evade result, receive a weapons disabled token.

And whatever you stupid designers at FFG do, don't you dare tell us T-65s are in winning squads; we don't believe you.

I need a citation for the claim that the designers have said that T-65s are great ships please.

I like the idea of turning T-65s into T-70s to save the old pilots, but the T-70 is supposed to be a better, more expensive ship...

I also actually like the S-foils idea IF IT'S DONE RIGHT! It should be like a cloak action - closed S-foils can't attack.

Closed S-foils

Title T-65 X-Wing only dual card

You may not perform primary weapon attacks.

Increase your agility value by 1.

Treat ALL ships as if they were at range 3 of you.

Action: flip this card

Open S-foils

Title T-65 X-Wing only dual card

Action: place a focus token on this card.

You may spend focus tokens on this card anytime.

Do not discard those tokens at the end of the round.

This card may not hold more than three tokens.

If this card has three focus tokens on it, you may spend

those tokens to flip this card.

Closed doesn't help Biggs (friendlies at range 3 too), and X-Wings won't "flap" because it takes four actions to flip backand forth.

That being said, I prefer

Dual-Linked Firing System

Title T-65 X-Wing only

Decrease your primary weapon value by 1.

You may perform two attacks per round.

And

Quad-Linked Firing System

Title T-65 X-Wing only

Increase your primary weapon value by 1.

At the start of each round, roll a green die.

On an evade result, receive a weapons disabled token.

I dont know if I like the S Foil idea.... seems too hard to set up.

As far as turning the T-65 into a T-70, its more like turning it into the missing link between the two.

The Resistance Refit would be missing

Tech Slot

3 Straight Green

Talon Roll

Man, every time there is a post about my beloved T-65s all the whining pours out of the posts like it's a bad child's Christmas list...

Sure FFG, we NEED free torps, free astromech, and by all means insure that any time a modification card states "discard"....the T-65s don't need to.

If WE don't get these much needed fixes, a T-65 will never, ever, ever be on the winning side of a tourney mat. And whatever you stupid designers at FFG do, don't you dare tell us T-65s are in winning squads; we don't believe you. The ships suck!

There.....now I sound like a member of the team "fix my X-wing whaaaaaaaah!"

I'm going to go play a few games of X-wing; and fly my Wedge, Luke, and Portkins squad....cause I'm that stupid.

I think you missed the entire point of my thread. It's not a "fix the Xwing" thread. Sure some of the post have said things to that respect, but my OP was about making custom titles to make Xwings usable to a sub faction of my own design and was never about making Xwings more competitive in a tournament setting(custom fan-made cards and ships aren't even allowed) So with that in mind, do you, as an Xwing(ship) player, have any ideas for a unofficial, tournament illegal, just for fun, casual games, "fixes" or titles that could make the Xwing of a sub faction fly differently from the Rebel Xwing we already have? I'm especially looking for ideas aimed at generics, since I won't be using the named pilots in my sub faction.

I agree that T-65's and jousters in general need some way to compete against arc dogers. I do like the idea of some kind of reverse auto thrusters, but I cant help but feel that would just lessen the problem rather than fix it. My suggestion would be something like this:

Once per round when an enemy ship in your firing arc at range 1-2 declares a boost or barrel roll action, immediately after they exicute that action you may perform a free boost or barel roll action

I realise the wording is a little clunky, but I'm trying to emphasise the timing. So if you as a jouster manage to successfully predict where an enemy arc doger is going to end its manuever, you will be able to adjust to its arc dodging after it does it. It's important to note that this doesn't turn jousters into arc dodgers, but give them a way (if flown well) to keep those pesky arc dodgers in their sights. On the flip side arc dodgers can still avoid this with careful flying and not ending up in range 1-2 of enemy firing arc. It really puts the emphasis back on planning manuevers rather than boosting and barrel rolling.

As for the format of the card, it could be a unique title for t-65 x wing or more of a universal upgrade so other jousters can acces it. Such as an ept "Counter Manuvers" or a modification. Both of these would compete with other upgrades. Price wise it seems pretty specific so I'd say maybe 1pt.

Just gimme a point reduction through a Title...I'll be OK .

I don't even need any extra perks. But a little flavor on the card wouldn't hurt.

So my other idea

Just gimme a point reduction through a Title...I'll be OK .

I don't even need any extra perks. But a little flavor on the card wouldn't hurt.

I'm not really sure a point reduction would really do anything in the long run. If an Xwing was 2 points cheaper, what could you buy with those extra points to make it play vastly different or better? Also what are you going to give up for those points? Awings gave up their missiles, Defenders gave up their missile and cannons. What would you lose on the Xwing? Torps? Astromech? Mod slot?

Man, every time there is a post about my beloved T-65s all the whining pours out of the posts like it's a bad child's Christmas list...

Sure FFG, we NEED free torps, free astromech, and by all means insure that any time a modification card states "discard"....the T-65s don't need to.

If WE don't get these much needed fixes, a T-65 will never, ever, ever be on the winning side of a tourney mat. And whatever you stupid designers at FFG do, don't you dare tell us T-65s are in winning squads; we don't believe you. The ships suck!

There.....now I sound like a member of the team "fix my X-wing whaaaaaaaah!"

I'm going to go play a few games of X-wing; and fly my Wedge, Luke, and Portkins squad....cause I'm that stupid.

I think you missed the entire point of my thread. It's not a "fix the Xwing" thread. Sure some of the post have said things to that respect, but my OP was about making custom titles to make Xwings usable to a sub faction of my own design and was never about making Xwings more competitive in a tournament setting(custom fan-made cards and ships aren't even allowed) So with that in mind, do you, as an Xwing(ship) player, have any ideas for a unofficial, tournament illegal, just for fun, casual games, "fixes" or titles that could make the Xwing of a sub faction fly differently from the Rebel Xwing we already have? I'm especially looking for ideas aimed at generics, since I won't be using the named pilots in my sub faction.

I get you; I was making a point off-exact-topic of this thread. Although I was kinda tongue-n-cheek a bit, I am tired of the whining. I don't want my X-wings to be arc dodgers and I don't want my ties to regenerate shields. Let's let ships be different; they have strengths and weaknesses and we MUST allow both to exist....If you don't like it, play checkers.

Nice 'actual' post by the way...sorry I bunny trailed a bit.

There seems to be a more fundamental problem with the X-Wing than its cost - and it's the same reason why the Kihraxz, and even the previously solid B-Wing, are suffering at the moment too.

It's simply that Arc Dodging is a more effective strategy than Jousting.

So having a 19-20 point X-Wing that can't tag an arc dodger and gets chewed to pieces by OOA shots isn't a great improvement on a 21 point X-Wing that can't tag an arc dodger and gets chewed to pieces by OOA shots.

One solution is to turn X-Wings into Arc Dodgers, but homogenising the ships so they all work the same way is kind of boring.

Another approach would be to make Arc Dodgers less effective against Jousters. Kind of like how Autothrusters brought back the balance between Arc Dodgers and PWTs by forcing PWTs to play away from their strengths.

So maybe the way to think about it is to make it less attractive for High PS PTL-ing Aces to arc dodge you and force/encourage them to take you on head on - playing to the strengths of jousters.

Something like:

Stabilised Rear Deflectors - Modification

Once per round, when an enemy ship outside your firing arc declares you the target of an attack, if you are within that ship's firing arc, immediately assign it 1 stress token.

You may not equip this upgrade if you have the boost action.

or maybe

Once round, when an enemy ship outside your firing arc declares you the target of an attack, if you are within that ship's firing arc, place 1 additional shield token on your ship card - even if this exceeds your shield value - if the attack does not hit immediately remove the shield token.

You may not equip this upgrade if you have the boost action.

Theres a problem here - Biggs... once again he creates an issue with design space for the rebels.

How does this cause a conflict with Biggs?

So my other idea

Just gimme a point reduction through a Title...I'll be OK .

I don't even need any extra perks. But a little flavor on the card wouldn't hurt.

I'm not really sure a point reduction would really do anything in the long run. If an Xwing was 2 points cheaper, what could you buy with those extra points to make it play vastly different or better? Also what are you going to give up for those points? Awings gave up their missiles, Defenders gave up their missile and cannons. What would you lose on the Xwing? Torps? Astromech? Mod slot?

Sorry, I didn't stick to the Topic directions.

Have you tried building/flying an X-wing list with a 2 point reduction? I love flying Blue Sq. B-wing with FCS and HLC... and with a 2 point reduction, I also get to fly three Red Squadron +Targeting Astromech+ Intergrated Astromech.

Just an example of what I played with and liked. I can't say what that would mean in the "long run" for other people. Oh, yeah...take the torps, sure-why not?

There seems to be a more fundamental problem with the X-Wing than its cost - and it's the same reason why the Kihraxz, and even the previously solid B-Wing, are suffering at the moment too.

It's simply that Arc Dodging is a more effective strategy than Jousting.

So having a 19-20 point X-Wing that can't tag an arc dodger and gets chewed to pieces by OOA shots isn't a great improvement on a 21 point X-Wing that can't tag an arc dodger and gets chewed to pieces by OOA shots.

One solution is to turn X-Wings into Arc Dodgers, but homogenising the ships so they all work the same way is kind of boring.

Another approach would be to make Arc Dodgers less effective against Jousters. Kind of like how Autothrusters brought back the balance between Arc Dodgers and PWTs by forcing PWTs to play away from their strengths.

So maybe the way to think about it is to make it less attractive for High PS PTL-ing Aces to arc dodge you and force/encourage them to take you on head on - playing to the strengths of jousters.

Something like:

Stabilised Rear Deflectors - Modification

Once per round, when an enemy ship outside your firing arc declares you the target of an attack, if you are within that ship's firing arc, immediately assign it 1 stress token.

You may not equip this upgrade if you have the boost action.

or maybe

Once round, when an enemy ship outside your firing arc declares you the target of an attack, if you are within that ship's firing arc, place 1 additional shield token on your ship card - even if this exceeds your shield value - if the attack does not hit immediately remove the shield token.

You may not equip this upgrade if you have the boost action.

Theres a problem here - Biggs... once again he creates an issue with design space for the rebels.

How does this cause a conflict with Biggs?

Because if Biggs is in the squad and within range 1 of his squad mates you have to target him. It turns biggs into a stress dealing monster that puts the stressbot to shame.

Biggs' ability is a bottleneck for Rebel design space because, much like howlrunner for the empire, it has to be taken into account with all the new expansions.

There seems to be a more fundamental problem with the X-Wing than its cost - and it's the same reason why the Kihraxz, and even the previously solid B-Wing, are suffering at the moment too.

It's simply that Arc Dodging is a more effective strategy than Jousting.

So having a 19-20 point X-Wing that can't tag an arc dodger and gets chewed to pieces by OOA shots isn't a great improvement on a 21 point X-Wing that can't tag an arc dodger and gets chewed to pieces by OOA shots.

One solution is to turn X-Wings into Arc Dodgers, but homogenising the ships so they all work the same way is kind of boring.

Another approach would be to make Arc Dodgers less effective against Jousters. Kind of like how Autothrusters brought back the balance between Arc Dodgers and PWTs by forcing PWTs to play away from their strengths.

So maybe the way to think about it is to make it less attractive for High PS PTL-ing Aces to arc dodge you and force/encourage them to take you on head on - playing to the strengths of jousters.

Something like:

Stabilised Rear Deflectors - Modification

Once per round, when an enemy ship outside your firing arc declares you the target of an attack, if you are within that ship's firing arc, immediately assign it 1 stress token.

You may not equip this upgrade if you have the boost action.

or maybe

Once round, when an enemy ship outside your firing arc declares you the target of an attack, if you are within that ship's firing arc, place 1 additional shield token on your ship card - even if this exceeds your shield value - if the attack does not hit immediately remove the shield token.

You may not equip this upgrade if you have the boost action.

Theres a problem here - Biggs... once again he creates an issue with design space for the rebels.

How does this cause a conflict with Biggs?

Because if Biggs is in the squad and within range 1 of his squad mates you have to target him. It turns biggs into a stress dealing monster that puts the stressbot to shame.

Biggs' ability is a bottleneck for Rebel design space because, much like howlrunner for the empire, it has to be taken into account with all the new expansions.

I see what you mean - don't think it necessarily overpowers Biggs that much - and you could just go with the second option which effectively gives you an extra evade when you are arc dodged

When thinking about the first ability I did consider adding a clause that only assigns a stress token to ships that are already stressed.

That way it forces an interesting choice on an arc dodger - do they PTL to arc dodge - or if they've just used 1 action to arc dodge do they risk a second action for attack dice modification and then spend 2 turns clearing the stress - or do they stay in arc and use PTL to turtle and thus give the jouster an opportunity to shoot back

T-65B

Title

You may equip an additional modification with a points cost of 0.