I'm surprised the Gamorreans didn't come with Sentinel to be honest, or some other damage soaking ability. A cross between Royal Guards and Wookiees would have been nice (Though obviously worse than both).

At first glance:

The regular Gamorreans are really bad.

The elite Gamorreans seem to be close to pre-nerf Royal Guards, just one step slower but dealing even more damage. I think, we'll see them played quite often.

The Weequays are good. good range, good damage good health (for the points). Not outstanding in any way, but absolutely playable. The reroll is the cherry on the cake.

The regular Jet Troopers are mobile 2 point figures. I like to use 2 point figures for picking up mission objectives and for controlling terminals. I often play regular Stormtroopers to fit that role (or regular Hired Guns for Mercs). The regular Jet Troopers deal a little less damage than regular Stormtroopers (no reroll), but are a little bit faster (mobile) and live a little bit longer (Agile). I would have preffered a 3 figure unit, but I still like them a lot.

The elite Jet Troopers are mobile and have a lot of health with Agile. Their normal attack deals a little less damage than that of elite Stormtroopers (no reroll). They are vehicles so Targeting Computers will compensate that. Their Fly-By attack puts them over the edge. It's sad, that they cannot be reinforced and that they are not a 3 figure group. But with their mobility and high damage output, they will be great to get that hostile last Stormtrooper of a group, that is hiding behind other figures, to score those 9 Points, you wouldn't get otherwise.

I agree with what's been said before - regular Gamorreans are for campaign. Unless they get some amazing command cards, I doubt you'll ever see them in skirmish. They can't be too great for 6 points (or just showing up as initial groups) or they'd be a pain to deal with in campaign.

I disagree that the Weequay reroll is the cherry on the cake, if by that you mean it's an added bonus to an already good figure. I think the reroll is essential for them being a good unit; I definitely wouldn't use them if they didn't have it.

Elite jets can be essentially 6-speed figures with mobile. That's pretty good. The fact that they can use both Trooper and Vehicle cards is very interesting and might result in some very unique lists.

I think these new groups are all pretty cool. But what stands out for me far above the rest is the

Rancor!!!

GGR means that you'll almost always have a Surge available for Cleave 2...and with Brutality that means 4 extra damage from Cleave much of the time. That means you can kind of focus-fire on one target when he does Brutality: attack the main target and use a Surge for +2 dmg, and then on the second Brutality attack, use a Surge for Cleave 2 to hit that primary target again. I love the tactical options that this piece opens up!

And with Reach and Massive, he will have a LOT of choices for Cleave targets (and even to set up Brutaility).

And Trained is such an innovative idea...love it! Since you decide about Trained at the start of a round, you will need to be thinking ahead if you want to get the most value of your Rancor. Losing Brutality would be difficult, but just think of a mostly-healthy monster in the midst of your opponent's squad (via Beast Tamer), which he can hardly damage at all.

I know I want to at least try 2x Rancor in a squad, though I'm not sure exactly how I'd want to build the rest of it.

10 Rancor

10 Rancor

8 reg HKs

6 Jabba

1 Beast Tamer

...5pts left

I think the best Rancor squads will probably just have 1 Rancor, but there are options. Maybe drop a Rancor for a Bantha, and then with the last 6pts get an eNexu?

It's quite low on activations, but dude...two Rancors getting into the midst of a group of elite Stormtroopers. Makes me smile.

I was hoping the Rancor would be awesome, and it certainly looks like it's got the potential to be that. Only practice will tell....

Oh man, battling against two rancors would be awesome! That is so emblematic of why this game is so awesome.

Also, I salute you for your initial list build. I'm sure some people will still favor the Gideon and C3PO splash over Jabba, but if you're fielding two rancors and you don't have Jabba, that's simply wrong. Unutterably wrong :-)

-ryanjamal

I'm definitely thinking about a new beast machine list:

Rancor 10

Bantha 9

Beast Tamer 1

Jabba 6

rNexu 4

eNexu 6

Greedo/rHired Guns 4

Might degrade the eNexu for another rNexu/rWampa and some Feeding Frenzy/Devious Scheme.

My first thoughts are that Vader's Finest elite Jet troopers have great potential and will definitely be trying them soon. Can't wait to use overrun with jet troopers too.

I don't think overrun will help bc a small figure can't enter the space occupied by another figure like massive figures can. Fuel upgrade is the best card, heavy armor would be alright for the jet troopers. Repair requires an action, but the elites have enough health for it to maybe be worthwhile, we really need some quality vehicle command card additions (hopefully in the JR set)

Honestly, I'm a little disappointed, the regulars seem like they are Campaign priced and nearly useless, elite Gamoreans guards are alright, but are very si liar to my beloved Wampas (actually quite a bit better as they move normal, get decent defense and still hit pretty hard) I was really hoping the Weequay would be troopers as well, so they could be reinforced, have some unit that would coordinate with wing guard well, but while they are good, is anyone going to take these over HK? Maybe there are some really nice smuggler cards coming out, but right now color me unimpressed. Rancor is awesome, I was going to get two Realm boxes, but now I think I'm alright with one and an extra elite jet pack card

I'm definitely thinking about a new beast machine list:

Rancor 10

Bantha 9

Beast Tamer 1

Jabba 6

rNexu 4

eNexu 6

Greedo/rHired Guns 4

Might degrade the eNexu for another rNexu/rWampa and some Feeding Frenzy/Devious Scheme.

No machines though,

Call it Jabba's Zoo and put the wampa in there

Gideon would be a good addition too, I love double focus and those beasts get nasty with focus, cause the surge starts to come out

How soon, til we hear "Rancor + Feeding Frenzy is broken" crying?

My first thoughts are that Vader's Finest elite Jet troopers have great potential and will definitely be trying them soon. Can't wait to use overrun with jet troopers too.

I don't think overrun will help bc a small figure can't enter the space occupied by another figure like massive figures can.

im getting "enter" and "end" movement mixed up.

I gotta say I don't really like that the jet troopers are vehicles. Being able to use fuel upgrade (giving them speed 5) and then Overrun on a mobile unit that can move 5, shoot, then move another 2, while doing 2damage to everyone they move through... that's so stupidly annoying.

And that's before other stuff like urgency or whatever. And you can do it on a crappy 4 point deployment.

Or since they are troopers, one guy does a double move with Overrun hitting as many units as possible (coz it's heaps better than his attack) and the other guy runs up and drops a grenade.

That kind of unmitigated damage puts the Bantha and Bossk to shame. Sure you need 5 points of command cards for that but if you're running troopers you'll have Grenadier anyway.

That's simply too good a combo to ever pass up for 4 deployment points.

EDIT:
Also yes, Rancor with Feeding Frenzy does sound a bit disgusting. Especially considering he can do it twice per turn when using Brutality, potentially recovering 4 health per turn.
Be trained for 2 black dice, when (or if) you take some damage, swap to brutality and recover all that damage.

It's basically invincible unless you can knock off 15 damage through a black dice in one turn. That's going to take a lot of effort.

I guess we might see more AT-STs being used

Uhh.... 2 rancors with feeding frenzy and beast tamer still leaves you with 17 points. That's enough for Jabba, 2 lots of hired guns and an ugnaught for example. Still 6 activations. and Jabba can focus rancors and give them more attacks. They might take a while to kill the whole enemy force, but they won't die and they'll block off terminals and objectives while the hired guns sit up the back and collect points.

I gotta say I don't really like that the jet troopers are vehicles. Being able to use fuel upgrade (giving them speed 5) and then Overrun on a mobile unit that can move 5, shoot, then move another 2, while doing 2damage to everyone they move through... that's so stupidly annoying.

And that's before other stuff like urgency or whatever. And you can do it on a crappy 4 point deployment.

Or since they are troopers, one guy does a double move with Overrun hitting as many units as possible (coz it's heaps better than his attack) and the other guy runs up and drops a grenade.

That kind of unmitigated damage puts the Bantha and Bossk to shame. Sure you need 5 points of command cards for that but if you're running troopers you'll have Grenadier anyway.

That's simply too good a combo to ever pass up for 4 deployment points.

EDIT:

Also yes, Rancor with Feeding Frenzy does sound a bit disgusting. Especially considering he can do it twice per turn when using Brutality, potentially recovering 4 health per turn.

Be trained for 2 black dice, when (or if) you take some damage, swap to brutality and recover all that damage.

It's basically invincible unless you can knock off 15 damage through a black dice in one turn. That's going to take a lot of effort.

I guess we might see more AT-STs being used

Uhh.... 2 rancors with feeding frenzy and beast tamer still leaves you with 17 points. That's enough for Jabba, 2 lots of hired guns and an ugnaught for example. Still 6 activations. and Jabba can focus rancors and give them more attacks. They might take a while to kill the whole enemy force, but they won't die and they'll block off terminals and objectives while the hired guns sit up the back and collect points.

I'm similarly down on 2 Rancors: remember massive figures can't move through other massives and you can only Beast Tamer 1 time per turn. Lots of other great options for Scum players to fill out a list with in this wave... Run 1 Rancor, keep it Tamed & alive, mop up with your other figures.

So I've been running an AT-ST list recently and I have found it really fun and would love to see it face a rancor. I was able to put 17 damage on the dianoga in 1 turn, it was pretty legit! If the ranconrs do become popular, i will be very happy.

I think Jabba's Realm will shake the meta up quite solidly. Scum can devastate spam-lists quite easily between Bossk, Rancor and Bantha. I looks like a move towards a more balanced list between big units and fillers.

I'm similarly down on 2 Rancors: remember massive figures can't move through other massives and you can only Beast Tamer 1 time per turn. Lots of other great options for Scum players to fill out a list with in this wave... Run 1 Rancor, keep it Tamed & alive, mop up with your other figures.

-ryanjamal

See, I think you would need the feeding frenzy if you ran two Rancors, in fact, that would be the only reason to take them. 2 Rancors and Jabba and Beast Tamer uses up almost all you deployments. You'll need to keep them alive because they are also the only targets and will go down if over half an army is shooing at them even with Trained up. If you can Brutality and cleave and heal, you have a chance to stay alive long enough to take out the main threats and let wave 2 come in. If you've ever played double bantha, it does tons of damage, but usually ends up losing because you can't keep your banthas alive, even with 2 solid hallways to attack from both ends. They die really quick even if you are supporting them. 15 health will disappear in 2-3 deployment attacks.

2x Rancor with Feeding Frenzy

1x Jabba

1x eHKs

1x Devious Scheme

= 40.

Get the Rancors in to kill and block, and snipe from behind them? It's a really small squad though. But if you can keep the HKs out of harms way (and possibly close to Jabba) they could help take out key targets while the Rancors rampage around.

This is Best Case Scenario Mentality: you will rarely draw all those cards together while positioned to take advantage of their effects optimally. It's more likely your opponent will kill your nearest Jet Trooper before you get to do much of that!

I disagree... all you really need is overrun and grenadier. It's not too hard to get 2 cards. being mobile you can just do a double move with overrun. He's going to do heaps more damage than a single shot. The Grenade is just a cheery on top and can come from any other trooper too. Any other movement cards are just extra bonuses.

Think of it this way. 4pts of Jet Troopers and the Overun card give you basically one extra Grenadier in your deck. It always does 2 damage (so it can't roll the 1 that a grenade can) and it can easily hit 3-5 units who don't even have to be adjacent.

I'd happily suicide the jet trooper to get that much unmitigated damage through.

Even sending him super deep to finish something off... it's probably better to do 2 unmitigated damage than to move and do a regular attack. Or use it with Provoke... go deep, do a ton of unmitigated damage, and then force C3PO to activate. Now you get another whole activation to finish off all the stuff you just hurt.

Time will tell if it's too powerful but at the very least, it looks like one of those super annoying situations that just aren't fun to play against (like Blaise interrogating doors).

As for the Rancor, I probably wouldn't bother with Feeding Frenzy on one of them, but if you ran 2 you'd need it to make sure they don't die. Reach is great but hardly necessary for a massive creature (especially one with an extra beast tamer move).

It's basically an AT-ST with short range. Except you can give it recover or have it attack twice and it costs 4 less points. There's also beast tamer and better creature cards than vehicle cards.

Have already done some preliminary testing wroth the Rancor and the most effective tactic thus far has been focus with Jabba and then activate if last. Beast Tamer in, Crush something if you can, then Brutality. Activate first next turn, Brutality, Beast Tamer away, much like some players use the Bantha. Makes him really difficult to pin down, and the best defense is always not allowing attacks. Repeat as necessary, or use Trained to park him on a terminal or objective.

Did some testing with Elite Jet Troopers and Sorin on Saturday night if anyone is interested:

Have already done some preliminary testing wroth the Rancor and the most effective tactic thus far has been focus with Jabba and then activate if last. Beast Tamer in, Crush something if you can, then Brutality. Activate first next turn, Brutality, Beast Tamer away , much like some players use the Bantha. Makes him really difficult to pin down, and the best defense is always not allowing attacks. Repeat as necessary, or use Trained to park him on a terminal or objective.

I never Beast Tamer Away- -you always push forward and kill/wound another 2-3 figures and hold out til you can get a Jundland Terror

This is Best Case Scenario Mentality: you will rarely draw all those cards together while positioned to take advantage of their effects optimally. It's more likely your opponent will kill your nearest Jet Trooper before you get to do much of that!

I disagree... all you really need is overrun and grenadier. It's not too hard to get 2 cards. being mobile you can just do a double move with overrun. He's going to do heaps more damage than a single shot. The Grenade is just a cheery on top and can come from any other trooper too. Any other movement cards are just extra bonuses.

Think of it this way. 4pts of Jet Troopers and the Overun card give you basically one extra Grenadier in your deck. It always does 2 damage (so it can't roll the 1 that a grenade can) and it can easily hit 3-5 units who don't even have to be adjacent.

I'd happily suicide the jet trooper to get that much unmitigated damage through.

Even sending him super deep to finish something off... it's probably better to do 2 unmitigated damage than to move and do a regular attack. Or use it with Provoke... go deep, do a ton of unmitigated damage, and then force C3PO to activate. Now you get another whole activation to finish off all the stuff you just hurt.

Time will tell if it's too powerful but at the very least, it looks like one of those super annoying situations that just aren't fun to play against (like Blaise interrogating doors).

Grenadier is a great card as we already know, and it will work well on cheap & mobile regular Jet Troopers.

Overrun has the potential to be similarly powerful but you're going to want some Jet Trooper redundancy. If you run just 4 points of them (the regular deployment group) there's a good chance they get killed before you draw Overrun. But if you're already running a vehicle & droid list, then it's a great card for you.

As for the Rancor, I probably wouldn't bother with Feeding Frenzy on one of them, but if you ran 2 you'd need it to make sure they don't die. Reach is great but hardly necessary for a massive creature (especially one with an extra beast tamer move).

It's basically an AT-ST with short range. Except you can give it recover or have it attack twice and it costs 4 less points. There's also beast tamer and better creature cards than vehicle cards.

Have already done some preliminary testing wroth the Rancor and the most effective tactic thus far has been focus with Jabba and then activate if last. Beast Tamer in, Crush something if you can, then Brutality. Activate first next turn, Brutality, Beast Tamer away , much like some players use the Bantha. Makes him really difficult to pin down, and the best defense is always not allowing attacks. Repeat as necessary, or use Trained to park him on a terminal or objective.

I never Beast Tamer Away- -you always push forward and kill/wound another 2-3 figures and hold out til you can get a Jundland Terror

I just uploaded a new episode of new New Orders podcast discussing these cards. You can hear on SoundCloud or via your Podcast client. Lots of talk about the Rancor strengths and strategy starting at 14m58s.

Overrun has the potential to be similarly powerful but you're going to want some Jet Trooper redundancy. If you run just 4 points of them (the regular deployment group) there's a good chance they get killed before you draw Overrun. But if you're already running a vehicle & droid list, then it's a great card for you.

I'd take Reach & Beast Tamer over Awkward any day.

Sure but how often to people kill your hired guns first? Especially when they hang out up the back. Regular 4 point Jet Troopers aren't good for anything except objectives and Overrun. I don't see any reason they should be in danger until you want to drop the combo. It's certainly a much easier combo to pull off than some others. The kicker is the low cost. Lots of other big wombo combos (apart from maybe grenadier which is why it's so good) require more risk and more investment.

I totally don't care about losing one 4pt jet trooper. I've also rarely had a problem holding terminals and milling through my deck with trooper lists and a bunch of officers.

It's a low risk, low cost, high reward combo. That's what worries me.

Then again, the Dewback riders seem to do a lot of unmitigated damage too so maybe it's just becoming a trend (although not one I'm super keen on).

As for Awkward... I've never honestly had a problem with it. You can always take a step back and shoot. Only exception is an out of activation attack, or some rare situation where two massive figures have pinned each other in a corner and even then... i'm sure you'll always have some other target since figures don't block LOS.

Your Beast Tamer, Reach and Brutality means nothing if my AT-ST is blocking the road. Then you only get 1 attack and can't move past or reach past me.

Rancor is great value but just like the bantha, an AT-ST will be a solid counter.

I think using Beast Tamer to run away is not a bad tactic, however games don't last long enough to play a slow hit and run game. If you get the double activation, you go deep and do as much damage as possible. At a very basic level, as long as your bantha removes an enemy activation or kills 9-10 points, it's been worth it. And it usually does if played right.

Sure but how often to people kill your hired guns first? Especially when they hang out up the back.

I like taking long shots at Hired Guns with Stormtroopers round 1 because the Hired Guns will miss on the return fire and won't get to control the objectives or terminals for the rest of the game.

Regular 4 point Jet Troopers aren't good for anything except objectives and Overrun. I don't see any reason they should be in danger until you want to drop the combo. It's certainly a much easier combo to pull off than some others. The kicker is the low cost. Lots of other big wombo combos (apart from maybe grenadier which is why it's so good) require more risk and more investment.

I totally don't care about losing one 4pt jet trooper. I've also rarely had a problem holding terminals and milling through my deck with trooper lists and a bunch of officers.

It's a low risk, low cost, high reward combo. That's what worries me.

If you're running Jet Troopers over Officers, HKs, or eStorms, I'm going to assume that you have Overrun. If you park a Jet Trooper close to me I'm going to try and kill it, or perhaps use Interrogation or Com Disruption to counter the Overrun just like I would do with Reinforcements & Grenadier. So sure it's a good combo but it's not like it's uncounterable. Being aware of it and playing around is enough to mitigate its effectiveness. Not that people won't pull off big Overruns form time to time, but you can make big plays with Take Initiative or rolling X at the right time too.

Then again, the Dewback riders seem to do a lot of unmitigated damage too so maybe it's just becoming a trend (although not one I'm super keen on).

Unmitigated splashy damage from Grenadier, Blast, Bossk, Bantha, etc is an important foil for swarm lists as well as a good way to chip away at high defense figures (Rancor, Vader). I'm glad to see more of it.

As for Awkward... I've never honestly had a problem with it. You can always take a step back and shoot. Only exception is an out of activation attack, or some rare situation where two massive figures have pinned each other in a corner and even then... i'm sure you'll always have some other target since figures don't block LOS.

Your Beast Tamer, Reach and Brutality means nothing if my AT-ST is blocking the road. Then you only get 1 attack and can't move past or reach past me.

Rancor is great value but just like the bantha, an AT-ST will be a solid counter.

Awkward would be very awkward with Jabba's Orders on a Rancor. But seriously, I didn't see lots of people taking up AT-STs to stop Banthas this spring. It's a fine figure but it's just too expensive.

I think using Beast Tamer to run away is not a bad tactic, however games don't last long enough to play a slow hit and run game. If you get the double activation, you go deep and do as much damage as possible. At a very basic level, as long as your bantha removes an enemy activation or kills 9-10 points, it's been worth it. And it usually does if played right.

Yep, 100%. If games were longer you could run away but you just can't waste good activations when you're only playing 3-4 rounds.

If you're running Jet Troopers over Officers, HKs, or eStorms, I'm going to assume that you have Overrun. If you park a Jet Trooper close to me I'm going to try and kill it, or perhaps use Interrogation or Com Disruption to counter the Overrun just like I would do with Reinforcements & Grenadier. So sure it's a good combo but it's not like it's uncounterable. Being aware of it and playing around is enough to mitigate its effectiveness. Not that people won't pull off big Overruns form time to time, but you can make big plays with Take Initiative or rolling X at the right time too.

I think we're just splitting hairs at this point. Everything you wrote applies to every single tactic in the game.

Problem is some things are easier to do and see than others. Every trooper list will have Reinforcements and Grenadier. The difference here is that it's half of the command deck in points and half of the list points.

That's not the same as having a card that's functionally quite similar to Grenadier for 1 less point and only requiring a 4pt deployment investment. And the jet troopers can still grab objectives and terminals if they aren't Overrunning things.

Saying that "just kill it" is a counter to a combo isn't really always a viable solution. You could say that for every single unit. Counter Bossk by just killing him. Counter RGC by killing him. Easier said than done.

Except there's not many units that can shoot through other figures, around corners and kill a Jet trooper from 5 or 6 range away. If my Jet trooper can do 2 unmitigated damage to a single figure at the right time... that's probably worth it alone.

Like I said. It's a super easy and powerful combo to set up (like a Beast Tamer Bantha, Devious Scheme, Jungland Terror combo) but doesn't require anywhere near as much risk or investment. The thing that makes Take Initiative (or X-man) OK is that there are counters. Negation, Deadly, defense rerolls etc... Other than killing both Jet Troopers or discarding the card (which is a counter to every card), there's no other way to stop it. And if you're discarding that, then you aren't discarding all the other strong cards in a trooper deck. Even Bossk's awesome command card is still a random dice roll that could end up completely wasting the card.

I don't really have a problem with the combo. My issue is with how cheap and easy it is. You practically sacrifice nothing to do it. Even if that one trooper dies after the combo.... you haven't even given up 4pts or an activation.

As for unmitigated damage... I don't like it because it hurts some things far more than others. I agree we need more trooper counters, but things that help you kill Vader and AT-STs also help you kill everything else in the game. So saying unmitigated damage is great to kill tough stuff makes weaker more agile stuff (eg low health but with a white dice) even more vulnerable. Rebel heroes already struggle in skirmish, unmitigated damage hurts them probably more than Vader and massive figures.

I think blast and cleave are different because they are harder to use. There's ways to counter and less their effects (spreading out or blocking surges). A simple "boom you take X damage, nothing you can do about it" just isn't fun to play against.

I get what you guys are saying and in reality agree with both of you. I think a lot of it depends on your perspective and what you are trying to get out of the game.

I think there needs to be some unmitigated damage, it takes some of the randomness out of the game (there was a big thread about white die unfairness/balance in the game), I believe this is one way to balance the game. Lots of units will have something similar, as long as you can't fit all of them into one list and essentially remove some randomness from the game entirely, I think I can handle some. Its just one strategic aspect of the game, just like more figures have some way of healing themselves or recovering (command cards or abilities, etc) As long as things are balanced to a certain degree, I think variety is what makes this game great.

That being said, in a strictly competitive world, too many unmitigated damage sources can have the opposite effect, especially if they are relegated to only certain units/factions. People tend to get caught up in the necessity to win and will only take certain units because they can depend on certain results. That is what makes me more nervous, is the pendulum swinging too much the other way, and then you only see certain lists (4x4, or only eStormies) I would rather there be several ways to play the game, whether that be trooper heavy, or beast heavy or hero heavy and have all of them have a decent chance or be on even footing.

That's the only thing that bothers me a bit about this new release (jabbas realm) is how several scum deployment cards are starting to repeat or overlap roles. Like Weequay and HK. I'd like a little more variety in my Mercs than everything being Hunter--