This is a game design flaw :

TIE /X7

TIE DEFENDER ONLY. TITLE.

Hey, this ship now doesn't give a **** about how well you play against it, it just gets an evade and 3 green dice.

-2 pts

Or maybe, you know, the card says what the designers wanted and it works, as it should. Sounds like someone can't hang. Jus sayin.

Like it's the first time the designers made a mistake on one of xwings cards.

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How much did the Advanced title help (to sell) the Advanced, not to mention moving Raiders? There was a ton of whinging then too (adding a crit is too much/ title is OP), but now it's an accepted part of the game.

[...]

I have no problem with Adv title, since you can get rid of it the classic way : just prevent the thing from doing an action, problem solved. With the defender you're just limiting the playable lists by requiring a shitload of firepower to get rid of it.

But globally, yes, I think you are right.

I hear what you're saying about the usual ways to stop actions being ineffective. That's unequivocally the case. But, I think that's part of the intention. I wouldn't be surprised that as more waves come out there will be more options for actions outside of the usual ways. It opens design space and gives players more opportunities to field different types of lists. I also expect counters for actions that happen outside of the usual way. However, since it comes out piecemeal like this, it has the effect of having some ships being more lopsided until the "fix" comes out for it. I am hopeful that eventually it will all balance out, more or less.

I just wish this way of doing things felt less like Magic: The Gathering and more like wave one X-wing. Not sure how I feel about this new "normal".

This title has a problem, which imo, is not in its cost.

The real issue with x7 title is that you can't do anything to prevent the defender from getting its evade token. Classic gameplay mechanism (stress, block) just doesn't work on them, and that's plain dumb.

The only way to fix it is to change the card text thusly :

TIE /X7

TIE DEFENDER ONLY. TITLE.

Your upgrade bar loses the Cannon and Missile upgrade icons.

After executing a 3,4 or 5 speed manoeuver, you may perform a free evade action.

-2 pts

Here you go, Defender fixed. Now dealing with it through blocks or stress works, as it should.

Edit: and missile and torpedo..

If only we had a way in the game to limit ships to slow moves, maybe even some weapon that made them take only a 1-straight (white, no less), that was available in cannon, turret, bomb, mine, and modification form. That would be a really useful weapon against something that has to go fast to get an Evade token.

Damnit, man! Stop speaking in riddles. If you have a point to make, get on with it!

I can't sit around here trying to parse your enigmatic jabber all day!

Tie defenders with the buffs basically are a part of the game demanding higher and higher quality attacks to compete.

Tie defenders with the buffs basically are a part of the game demanding higher and higher quality attacks to compete.

Higher quality or a rethink on gear that is rarely used (ion/tb)? As a defender player i'd be crap scared of ion torps, and it's not like thats a huge shift for some current lists

Tie defenders with the buffs basically are a part of the game demanding higher and higher quality attacks to compete.

Higher quality or a rethink on gear that is rarely used (ion/tb)? As a defender player i'd be crap scared of ion torps, and it's not like thats a huge shift for some current lists

****, I forgot to add Missile and Torpedo slots to my list.

Tie defenders with the buffs basically are a part of the game demanding higher and higher quality attacks to compete.

Higher quality or a rethink on gear that is rarely used (ion/tb)? As a defender player i'd be crap scared of ion torps, and it's not like thats a huge shift for some current lists

****, I forgot to add Missile and Torpedo slots to my list.

And you didn't even touch on the subject of token stripping and green blockers....

Outmanver/tailgunner kath sounds a lot more reasonable in this thread, and heven forbid we actually get a reason to put an xwing on the table not named biggs

Tie defenders with the buffs basically are a part of the game demanding higher and higher quality attacks to compete.

Higher quality or a rethink on gear that is rarely used (ion/tb)? As a defender player i'd be crap scared of ion torps, and it's not like thats a huge shift for some current lists

What's more reliable? A party bus/IG88B+fcs+crack/triple jump or trying to stick a 3 dice attack?

Ion torpedoes are really expensive, though i'm surprised ion bombs aren't used more in the bomber lists.

Ion bombs don't do damage

So **** em

Conners!

This title has a problem, which imo, is not in its cost.

The real issue with x7 title is that you can't do anything to prevent the defender from getting its evade token. Classic gameplay mechanism (stress, block) just doesn't work on them, and that's plain dumb.

The only way to fix it is to change the card text thusly :

TIE /X7

TIE DEFENDER ONLY. TITLE.

Your upgrade bar loses the Cannon and Missile upgrade icons.

After executing a 3,4 or 5 speed manoeuver, you may perform a free evade action.

-2 pts

Here you go, Defender fixed. Now dealing with it through blocks or stress works, as it should.

If only we had a way in the game to limit ships to slow moves, maybe even some weapon that made them take only a 1-straight (white, no less), that was available in cannon, turret, bomb, mine, and modification form. That would be a really useful weapon against something that has to go fast to get an Evade token.

Edit: and missile and torpedo..

Bombs seem like they would be especially effective on a ship that likes to go straight.

It had to have a negative value because the Defender price point was set to high to begin with. I do think -2 was excessive. -1 would have been fine and the D title should have had the -2. Makes me wonder if someone got it backwards during design?

The minus 2 is fine. The unblockable evade might be an issue.

TLTs seem to still eat defenders rather consistantly. No ATs is a significant change over Soontir, Jax and Inq. Though with 6 HP it still takes a while to down them and PTL Ryad and Vesery have a good damage output too.

It is probably just a meta thing, to be honest.

For example, PWT with Gunner is a solid way to take on token reliant ships (i.e. Interceptors before autothrusters), as well as C3P0 + Evade and similar abilities that lists with a small # of guns just cant kill fast enough. Phantoms also have the firepower to take on 3 Agi f + e ships (and the capability to repeatedly fire shots). It just so happens that those ships have enough counters to keep them from being highly pre-dominant at the moment.

Id try to take them on with an Asajj list at the moment

Also, there are many things in this game that I think need fixing, and X7 Defenders are not on that list.

Tie defenders with the buffs basically are a part of the game demanding higher and higher quality attacks to compete.

Higher quality or a rethink on gear that is rarely used (ion/tb)? As a defender player i'd be crap scared of ion torps, and it's not like thats a huge shift for some current lists

Honestly with their hit points it's not that troubling.

-2 should have been for both X7 and D

-2 should have been for both X7 and D

Sadly, that's Vessery's fault as -2 on the D for him would have been broken.

-2 should have been for both X7 and D

Sadly, that's Vessery's fault as -2 on the D for him would have been broken.

Oh yeah he would, /D is great as is it lets you use control while still getting your regular attack, people don't like relying on green dice alone for defence for understandable reasons or you'd see it more.

-2 should have been for both X7 and D

Sadly, that's Vessery's fault as -2 on the D for him would have been broken.

I'm not sure it would be broken. Colossal offense is colossal offense. I'm not sure 2 points matters hugely there. If the enemy can kill him quickly, it will be okay, of they can't, he'll wreck them. This is true whether he's 38 or 36 (at a minimum, with Ion Cannon).

It does make all the /Ds a little better because their support can be better, but I don't think there's a broken list you can make with Vessery at 36 that you can't make with him at 38.

I think they got the points backwards. I think the x7 should've been 0 points and the /D should've been -2 but also allow 4 point cannons.

I think they got the points backwards. I think the x7 should've been 0 points and the /D should've been -2 but also allow 4 point cannons.

Oh yeah, and a discount of 4 pts on the first of their 3 allowed modifications, a tech slot and Advanced's targeting computer.

-2 should have been for both X7 and D

Sadly, that's Vessery's fault as -2 on the D for him would have been broken.

I'm not sure it would be broken. Colossal offense is colossal offense. I'm not sure 2 points matters hugely there. If the enemy can kill him quickly, it will be okay, of they can't, he'll wreck them. This is true whether he's 38 or 36 (at a minimum, with Ion Cannon).

It does make all the /Ds a little better because their support can be better, but I don't think there's a broken list you can make with Vessery at 36 that you can't make with him at 38.

I'm thinking a tractor beam primary follow up at 34 points. I do think those two points make a difference in what you can bring around him.

The reasoning behind the -2 points was the Defender needed a point reduction to be usefull. And it has made the Defender a 'Superior Fighter'. And isn't that what the defender was? It was supposed to be the best fighter credits could buy (minus the StarViper).

This title has a problem, which imo, is not in its cost.

The real issue with x7 title is that you can't do anything to prevent the defender from getting its evade token. Classic gameplay mechanism (stress, block) just doesn't work on them, and that's plain dumb.

The only way to fix it is to change the card text thusly :

TIE /X7

TIE DEFENDER ONLY. TITLE.

Your upgrade bar loses the Cannon and Missile upgrade icons.

After executing a 3,4 or 5 speed manoeuver, you may perform a free evade action.

-2 pts

Here you go, Defender fixed. Now dealing with it through blocks or stress works, as it should.

That's actually a worse wording for being able to block them. Design is harder than it looks.

With that title, now I can bump, get my free evade action (which the bump does not prevent), then Push the Limit to focus/roll/TL.

This title has a problem, which imo, is not in its cost.

The real issue with x7 title is that you can't do anything to prevent the defender from getting its evade token. Classic gameplay mechanism (stress, block) just doesn't work on them, and that's plain dumb.

The only way to fix it is to change the card text thusly :

TIE /X7

TIE DEFENDER ONLY. TITLE.

Your upgrade bar loses the Cannon and Missile upgrade icons.

After executing a 3,4 or 5 speed manoeuver, you may perform a free evade action.

-2 pts

Here you go, Defender fixed. Now dealing with it through blocks or stress works, as it should.

That's actually a worse wording for being able to block them. Design is harder than it looks.

With that title, now I can bump, get my free evade action (which the bump does not prevent), then Push the Limit to focus/roll/TL.

Yeah, when the title came out I thought it was uncommonly generous that it was a token not an action, then I started thinking about the interaction with PTL and saw why they did what they did.

need to create a blockable x7? steal from Advanced SLAM!

replace with relevant condition and free evade action specifically