-2 wouldn't be hugely broken on vess's double tap as he still has the old problem of being over reliant on green dice. Yeah he would be solid but that humble little PS1 defender could rock an ion cannon without being too expensive and might see some play.

This title has a problem, which imo, is not in its cost.

The real issue with x7 title is that you can't do anything to prevent the defender from getting its evade token. Classic gameplay mechanism (stress, block) just doesn't work on them, and that's plain dumb.

The only way to fix it is to change the card text thusly :

TIE /X7

TIE DEFENDER ONLY. TITLE.

Your upgrade bar loses the Cannon and Missile upgrade icons.

After executing a 3,4 or 5 speed manoeuver, you may perform a free evade action.

-2 pts

Here you go, Defender fixed. Now dealing with it through blocks or stress works, as it should.

If only we had a way in the game to limit ships to slow moves, maybe even some weapon that made them take only a 1-straight (white, no less), that was available in cannon, turret, bomb, mine, and modification form. That would be a really useful weapon against something that has to go fast to get an Evade token.

Edit: and missile and torpedo..

Bombs seem like they would be especially effective on a ship that likes to go straight.

Though that would require people to *think.* Straightforward firepower / repositioning ability gives people a sense of security over and above list effectiveness.

One should also not underestimate Homing Missiles.

I think they got the points backwards. I think the x7 should've been 0 points and the /D should've been -2 but also allow 4 point cannons.

Sheesh, people think they're overpowered now...

The reasoning behind the -2 points was the Defender needed a point reduction to be usefull. And it has made the Defender a 'Superior Fighter'. And isn't that what the defender was? It was supposed to be the best fighter credits could buy (minus the StarViper).

The Viper is the best fighter credits can buy. The Defender is meant to be (for its time) the best fighter credits can't buy.

I think they got the points backwards. I think the x7 should've been 0 points and the /D should've been -2 but also allow 4 point cannons.

Mangler cannon plus a primary shot?

Sheesh, people think they're overpowered now...

No one thinks the D/D is OP, it the /x7 which gets complains.

And btw, the Defender was supposed to be the best heavy fighter the empire could make without any credits restrictions. heavy fighter, not interceptor, nor strike fighter. We the Avenger on the interceptor roll and the missile boat on the strike fighter front. Other roles had better ships, the Avenger is a clear contender in a one on one dogfight, while the missile boat brings clearly more pain to larger ships. The /x7 Title is pretty close to the Avenger, so I am fine with that. Still would not mind to have the model. °_^

I think they got the points backwards. I think the x7 should've been 0 points and the /D should've been -2 but also allow 4 point cannons.

Mangler cannon plus a primary shot?Sheesh, people think they're overpowered now...

No one thinks the D/D is OP, it the /x7 which gets complains.And btw, the Defender was supposed to be the best heavy fighter the empire could make without any credits restrictions. heavy fighter, not interceptor, nor strike fighter. We the Avenger on the interceptor roll and the missile boat on the strike fighter front. Other roles had better ships, the Avenger is a clear contender in a one on one dogfight, while the missile boat brings clearly more pain to larger ships. The /x7 Title is pretty close to the Avenger, so I am fine with that. Still would not mind to have the model. °_^

The point is, no one is complaining about the /D, it's always how **** impossible it is to punch through the token defense of the x7.

I proposed the 2 point reduction with the only benefit to Defenders taking canons, but the Tractor Beam is the only one you get free really. This is very appropriate and I think would balance out the usage of x7 and /D.

So you're saying the /D needs a buff?

Imperial superiority expansion coming soon.

Ion bombs don't do damage

So **** em

Conners!

They do however force Defenders to go 1 forward, so they cannot use x7.

So does everyone else just automatically roll evade dice without modifiers? I mean the free evade is super handy and the extra shields mean they don't die to a stiff breeze but my defenders are typically locked into a 3+ speed maneuver and then need to focus to ensure they can survive normal fire/deal damage. Any form of stress inducers lock down their best move (the 4k) and if I decide to risk it and not do a green, then I'm sitting on one evade, which in a 3+ dice meta does precisely squat. Sure you'll get a game where your defense dice are on fire, but I can't rely on that enough to not aim for the token stacking.

And the most recent wave gave us a ship that spits out stress and dice-reducers like candy, on top of all the other focus stealing, token locking, natural evade rer-olling nonsense that's already available. I look at all that and I think that maybe a cost reduction on the most expensive small-based ship in the game maybe isn't the worst thing in the world. That you can now actually play defenders as viable ships seems like the real win for this expansion, not unlike Imperial Aces and the eventual addition of autothrusters.

Just about every wave now gives us options to either affect actions or deal damage without standard defense rolls and the only thing that really seems to push out are mass "point and shoot" lists, like 4BZ which I have to ask, does anyone really miss? I mean, aren't the named pilots just way more fun to fly and fly against than massed generics?

I guess I'm not typically rooting for generic pilot 37 & 38, when I could be rooting for Poe to down another SF and Vader to prove that he really is the best pilot in the galaxy. And upgrade like these tend to show more value on pilots that can stack abilities so to wheel it back around to the topic, an upgrade that finally makes a ship playable in competitive lists seems like a win.

Plus when was the last time anyone saw massed TLTs? Scouts literally blew that list-type out of the water and Palp Aces hasn't really cared about it for ages. Which again, seems more fun anyways

EDIT: It seems the Spanish Nationals was won by quad TLTs so it might be quite that dead. Still, it takes a very skilled player to wield them effectively against good meta counters and as a result, it's still more of a fringe case as opposed to hot meta builds like Palp aces or uboats

I think the x/7 and Tie d titles were appropriately costed. With the very restrictive dial on the Defender the x/7 makes sense. It is strong and even more so with Juke but not insanely so.

why does x7 cost -2 points?

Flexibility gone, you're highly predictable. Two alternatives could have been lose canon and missile slot -4 points or lose canon and get the evade token at 3/4/5 speed 0 points.

I'm surprised no one compares to the Chardaan refit for the A-Wing. Lose missile slot -2 points. A zero point x7 wouldn't make much sense compared to that.

After playing against trip defenders yesterday they are a nightmare but the player positioned them badly and they couldnt do 3+ moves for a couple turns. I managed to shred two of them and squeak a 2 point margin of "victory".

What would make the x7 actually balanced...since the Palp Defenders list obviously has not made it to other metas yet...is to make it a free evade action instead of a free evade token with a caveat that it cannot take it if it overlaps an obstacle or ship

Because as it stands, even if the Defender gets blocked, it still gets the evade. Even if it's stressed, it still gets the evade.

3 shields, 3 agility, a free evade, and palp....its' exceptionally tough to crack.

There's a reason why every single tournament in the Atlanta area has been won by Palp Defenders since they came out.

What would make the x7 actually balanced...since the Palp Defenders list obviously has not made it to other metas yet...is to make it a free evade action instead of a free evade token with a caveat that it cannot take it if it overlaps an obstacle or ship

Because as it stands, even if the Defender gets blocked, it still gets the evade. Even if it's stressed, it still gets the evade.

3 shields, 3 agility, a free evade, and palp....its' exceptionally tough to crack.

There's a reason why every single tournament in the Atlanta area has been won by Palp Defenders since they came out.

Simple remedy. Bring Carnor Jax.

Or shoot it twice.

People seem to think evade tokens and palpatine are a given on every attack.

Focus firing defenders is easier than a lot of aces - you know they're gonna do a 3+ speed move, you have a strong inkling when it'll be a 4k.

Plan accordingly, then melt the bugger.

@op

yes