I have been thinking about this thread today, because I just got asked to run an Xwing birthday party for a bunch of 10-year olds.

Well, it was about tied when Jbot had to go. I thought we would have more players, but it was 3 of us. At this point, the front end of the CR-90 was dead. The Raider was beat up all over, but still alive. The Gozanti was in a bad way as it was getting rammed by the GR-75 and 3 untouched X-wings were on it's tail. So, I took over the Rebels.

I did horrible. In two turns, I ran over 4 ships, but only 1 of them was Imperial. I accidentally ran over the 2 A-wings. I then hit an Interceptor and an X-wing. The Gozanti died, but with me killing 3 of my own ships, it was bad. I gave up then.

Ouch. I have seen worse though. One Rebel commander ran over 150 points worth with a corvette. Mostly his own fleet including the Falcon.

Hope everyone had fun.

Was it well balanced then?

Yep, everyone had a good time. It was pretty balanced. The GR-75 can't shoot, but it can really spoil things. The title on it makes the Reinforce action really nasty. I sent 4 Tie fighters to face it and totally forgot about the title. They couldn't do diddly against it and were flanked by 3 X-wings. It was short work and I totally messed that up. The GR-75 did ram the Gozanti and stop it for the 2 turns it took the X-wings to finish off the Tie Fighters and get in behind it. That was all she wrote after that.

I will say that I let my partner, Jason, set up. I thought he screwed up as the CR-90 was on his flank, but that thing did turn pretty well and I was surprised.

I think Jason needed experience with the Raider and with Ordnance Tubes. I wanted each ship to have a different upgrade. There were a lot of times that he didn't have a shot as he was out of range. When he did get someone in range, he really tore it up! I think if he had a different load out for the front section than R3 missiles, he would've done better. So, it was a learning experience, but fun.

The Ion Battery on the CR-90 ripped up the Raider! All those crits were really hurting it. The first one was each action takes 1 Energy to do. Even though he had Ordnance Tubes, it really hurt once things got going.

Once again, we ran into the bit where the CR-90's front was destroyed, so it kept ramming the enemy and didn't suffer for it. I am thinking of implementing a rule where if a ship rams, but it's front is destroyed, the damage goes to the rear. It's just kind of broken otherwise. You get crippled, but just turn into a ship that can destroy the enemy with little lose. It just doesn't make sense.

I think the Imperials didn't place small based ships well enough. The 4 Ties weren't really enough to handle the X-wings and X-wings are darn brutal in Epic. I think it was balanced and a lot of fun. I think we all learned a bit. That was the important aspect.

The Ion Battery on the CR-90 ripped up the Raider! All those crits were really hurting it. The first one was each action takes 1 Energy to do. Even though he had Ordnance Tubes, it really hurt once things got going.

There's a reason I always have a WED-15 repair droid on my big ships...

The Ion Battery on the CR-90 ripped up the Raider! All those crits were really hurting it. The first one was each action takes 1 Energy to do. Even though he had Ordnance Tubes, it really hurt once things got going.

There's a reason I always have a WED-15 repair droid on my big ships...

Oh, yeah! I forgot that Jason kept saying he needed some sort of repair bot on his ship! He was yelling at me that I should've had one on it. So....I'd probably tweak it a bit to have WED-15 Repair Droid on the Imperial ship. The Raider was riddled with crits between the Ion Battery and the ramming.

I don't like the Construction Droid because it can't fix crits. And it's more expensive. But WED needs an action.

I think that you aren't flying them right if you don't ram a lot - therefore, you need to fix your ship!

I've never use the WED... though that is likely because the only time I've tried it was before the new modifications which have made it so much easier to use.

Dang it, I need another epic game.

Dang it, I need another epic game.

Yes.....yes you do.

Was the list in this thread the final build?

Was the list in this thread the final build?

I did change something....and then would change one more thing. Argh......work blocks me from logging in to my saved list. Oh, I can click on the link and then just change it. Rebel list shouldn't change:

OK...I just saw this:

What were your thoughts on the weapons engineer on the gozanti? Suppressor only triggers once per round and the gozanti only has one attack so I can't see the benefits of two target locks... unless I'm missing something. As an alternative construction droid could work well with your shield technician.

Yeah....I played it where the Suppressor worked on both targets. Doh! So...I'd change that. Also change to have one Homing Missile on the rear part of Raider. Want to put some sort of anti crit on the Raider, but that would mean either removing the Weapons Eng. or Tarkin.

Was the list in this thread the final build?

I did change something....and then would change one more thing. Argh......work blocks me from logging in to my saved list. Oh, I can click on the link and then just change it. Rebel list shouldn't change:

What were your thoughts on the weapons engineer on the gozanti? Suppressor only triggers once per round and the gozanti only has one attack so I can't see the benefits of two target locks... unless I'm missing something. As an alternative construction droid could work well with your shield technician.

Yeah....I played it where the Suppressor worked on both targets. Doh! So...I'd change that. Also change to have one Homing Missile on the rear part of Raider. Want to put some sort of anti crit on the Raider, but that would mean either removing the Weapons Eng. or Tarkin.

Raider-class Corvette (Fore) (50)

Homing Missiles (5)

Gunnery Team (4)

Raider-class Corvette (Aft) (50)

Weapons Engineer (3)

Grand Moff Tarkin (6)

Ion Torpedoes (5)

Homing Missiles (5)

Ordnance Experts (5)

Ordnance Tubes (5)

Impetuous (3)

Gozanti-class Cruiser (40)

Shield Technician (1)

Construction Droid (3)

Dual Laser Turret (5)

Engineering Team (4)

Docking Clamps (0)

Automated Protocols (5)

Suppressor (6)

What would you suggest?

Highlight mine for emphasis.

I'd be tempted to ditch the Interceptors and go for TIE or TIE/FO Fighters at PS4+. Interceptors melt in Epic, at least for me. For my next epic I'm considering sensor jammer on 3 Advanced and making them all PS4. The CR90 can't have focus tokens and Suppressor/Tarkin can strip them so makes them tankier. PS4 is good so the Imperials can fire before the CR90 if they have initiative. Also thinking about Assualt Missiles on the Advanced with Guidance Chips or maybe ion pulse missiles. Argh I've got to get another epic game sorted!

Yeah....I played it where the Suppressor worked on both targets. Doh! So...I'd change that. Also change to have one Homing Missile on the rear part of Raider. Want to put some sort of anti crit on the Raider, but that would mean either removing the Weapons Eng. or Tarkin.

Raider-class Corvette (Fore) (50)

Homing Missiles (5)

Gunnery Team (4)

Raider-class Corvette (Aft) (50)

Weapons Engineer (3)

Grand Moff Tarkin (6)

Ion Torpedoes (5)

Homing Missiles (5)

Ordnance Experts (5)

Ordnance Tubes (5)

Impetuous (3)

Gozanti-class Cruiser (40)

Shield Technician (1)

Construction Droid (3)

Dual Laser Turret (5)

Engineering Team (4)

Docking Clamps (0)

Automated Protocols (5)

Suppressor (6)

What would you suggest?

Highlight mine for emphasis.

Well....I did drop Weapons Engineer for Construction Droid on the Gozanti and I did drop Assault Missile for Homing Missile on the Raider.

Now, it's probably viable to put Tarkin on the Gozanti, which makes that ship an even more annoying ship to mess with people. You can strip 1 ship of all it's good tokens and then you can either put or take a Focus on another ship at R1-4. It might put more focus on the Gozanti which could be good or ill, depending on the circumstances. Now, if you did that.....it looks like you should just swap the Construction Droid to the Raider, but I wouldn't. He can't get rid of crits. So, what you want to do is trade out for WED-15 Repair Droid. He's the one that can get rid of crits. So....with that, we have:

You're probably not going to like this suggestion, but I was disappointed reading the thread when I noticed you dropped ordnance expert because I thought that would really help your Y-wings, and I noticed from the photos you did keep them close to the Corvette. But also I was going to mention that Guidance Chip costs zero and you weren't using the modifications slot on all three of your Y-wings. Dutch works better with your Weapons Engineer than Horton, you know, some return help.

Well....once I had it corrected with the number of modifications you can take on an Epic ship (I was right the first time when I thought it was only 1! I got excited when I thought you could do 2)...I didn't think it was needed to have the Ordnance Team on the CR-90. Yes, they could've worked with the Y-wings, but I wasn't in charge and I know some of the other guys aren't as up on the Epic stuff. I didn't want to have too many combos and such. As it turned out, we only had 3 of us and this list here was just too much for 1 guy to keep up with that wasn't used to Epic.

Oh.....I just forgot to put on the free Guidance Chips on the Y-wings. Duh. You know, no Y-wing ever got off a 2nd Torpedo. I know 2 got their shots off, but I'm not sure if all 3 Y-wings got their shots off.

I like using Horton in Epic. The re-rolls of blanks at long range is just so cool and he's too expensive for normal games. I just love sticking him in every chance I can get. Yes, Dutch gets used a lot more and is very handy, but I like the Horton Mustache.

OK.....so.....since I forgot to include the Guidance Chips and I know Ken wants the list to be complete.......

Oh, Ken at Sunrise, I do have a question for you if you are going to use these lists. Are your guys familiar with the Epic rules? If not, then I would recommend at least 2 people per side. I thought we were going to have 2-3 per side and I did load up these epic ships and there is quite a bit to get used to. We ended up with 1 on one side and 2 on the other. It became difficult for those guys that aren't used to Epic to recall all there was on all the different ships.

There's something else I figured out that I can't recall if it's mentioned in this thread or not. It is about squads and PS skill. If you have more people in the game and you want to keep everyone involved/paying attention, then the squads with different PS levels are better. This way you can't really get away without having to do something in the game every so often. Make sure you have a barker (guy who yells off where you are at that moment) keeping everyone moving along and it's better that way. If you have LESS people involved, it might be better to have the squads all have the same PS. This way, when someone has a whole epic fleet to worry about and they are dividing their tasks, it's a lot easier to turn to the entire X-wing squad and go "Ok....now I move all of you and now I shoot all of you" instead of bouncing around between squads with all different PS. Make sense?

If you wanted me to build an epic game that had fewer players and less complicated Epic ships, I can do that. I can also streamline the PS of the squads to match better.

I'd be tempted to ditch the Interceptors and go for TIE or TIE/FO Fighters at PS4+. Interceptors melt in Epic, at least for me. For my next epic I'm considering sensor jammer on 3 Advanced and making them all PS4. The CR90 can't have focus tokens and Suppressor/Tarkin can strip them so makes them tankier. PS4 is good so the Imperials can fire before the CR90 if they have initiative. Also thinking about Assualt Missiles on the Advanced with Guidance Chips or maybe ion pulse missiles. Argh I've got to get another epic game sorted!

I've had bad luck with Tie Fighters in epic games. They just seem to die pretty easily and not really do much damage. It's kind of frustrating. I haven't found the best target to send the Tie Fighters after. If I go after Epic ships, the Reinforce token makes Ties do hardly any damage. If I send them vs. Y-wings, they would usually end up Ionizing the Tie Fighters and blasting past (OK...no Ion Turrets in this match). If I send them against anything else, they usually end up getting blasted as a squad of 4 Tie Fighters isn't much of a match vs. 3 of anything else.

As for First Order Tie Fighters......I kind of don't want to mix the eras. I dunno. Maybe if I get a bunch of Special Forces Tie Fighters it might be different, but I don't have the cash flow for that.

I've had great luck with Tie Interceptors. I keep them cheap and only give them AutoThrusters. They are super fast. They hit hard. They have a great dial. Just looking at this game I played and those Interceptors get behind the CR-90 and can stay there. With their range of actions and dial, they can really stay behind an epic ship and blast it with superior guns. They can also hold their own against X-wings and A-wings. They threaten Y-wings much better than Tie Fighters. I dunno....I think they are the most successful Epic ships I've used.

This was my first time using Tie Advanced X1's in epic and I was pretty happy with them. I'd love to include missiles with them, but that gets pretty expensive. I'd probably put in Cluster Missiles. I know it gets hard to get TL on epic ships with them moving last and then being in R2-3 and I like that Cluster can fire 1-2. You often get into a mixed up furball and Cluster Missiles are good at taking out almost anything, really. Shoot at an Epic ship, or X-wing, or A-wing, or Y-wing and you are doing pretty well. You can even take Accuracy Corrector to at least ensure you will get 2 hits. OK....an Epic with Reinforce on that section is probably one of the worst things to shoot at, but with AC, you are at least going to get 2 hits through, if not more. That's better than a regular attack. I had kept these guys with Adv. Targeting Computer as the ability to crit an epic ship is so nasty. Also, you can throw in the extra damage result if shooting at regular ships, so I wanted to see how they fared when fighting snub nosed fighters. True, no dice mitigation, but....damage potential is higher.

If you wanted me to build an epic game that had fewer players and less complicated Epic ships, I can do that. I can also streamline the PS of the squads to match better.

Really? You have to ask? Of course.

I finally got a few people playing X-Wing and we are getting ready to set up the scenario you and I discussed months ago. Another would be perfect timing. I'm terrible at squad building and of course by its very nature worse at Epic squad building. Any help is always appreciated.

Know what you mean about mixings eras but I think FOs are under appreciated. A shield, targeting computer and amazing dial they're tough and cheap. Shove em on the gozanti and deploy at close range. Kinda wish there was an FO Interceptor... roll on episode viii! Which of course will also feature Phasma's chrome FO Defender. . I digress...

I like the idea of different Pilot Skills in different squads. It does serve to keep the players more interested. Also the fewer upgrades and abilities to keep it less complicated is a good idea. Even experienced players can loose track when there is too many. One or two per person is added fun.

If you wanted me to build an epic game that had fewer players and less complicated Epic ships, I can do that. I can also streamline the PS of the squads to match better.

Really? You have to ask? Of course.

I finally got a few people playing X-Wing and we are getting ready to set up the scenario you and I discussed months ago. Another would be perfect timing. I'm terrible at squad building and of course by its very nature worse at Epic squad building. Any help is always appreciated.

OK.....give me some time to whip up a new list.

Total: 400

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Just a variant with the same PS for the groups.

OK....the one issue I have is that each of the 3 different Epic Modifications were used in the game. I kind of want the players to experience each one.

Know what you mean about mixings eras but I think FOs are under appreciated. A shield, targeting computer and amazing dial they're tough and cheap. Shove em on the gozanti and deploy at close range.

Oh, I agree with you on the FO's. I didn't think much of them when they were first released. I decided to fly with some. Man, was I impressed! They were really good. The dial was awesome and I loved the S-loop for low PS ships to get out of the way, but still have a shot. I also liked what the single Shield did. I agree that they are not regarded highly enough.

OK Ken at Sunrise......here is a simplified Rebel List. I don't think they really needed it as much, but I removed a few upgrades on the CR90 and gave the Y-wings Ion Turrets. The CR90 will be less effective, but also less complicated.

I didn't touch the GR-75. It's still kind of complicated. You want to know why? Because....it has no guns. The only thing it can do is all the crazy little things. The trick to the GR75 is this. You always want to either use Toryn Far to remove tokens from one ship, or you want to use the Jam ability. Don't forget that Frequency Jammer means you give a stress to one ship in R 1-2 and then it also stresses another enemy within R1 of that ship. So, those are the 2 actions you should always do. It has Automated Protocols, which means after you do your first action, you get either a free Reinforce action or Replenish Shields action. When you do the Reinforce action, the title Bright Hope adds 2 Evade results to all attacks that round. So.....you don't attack, but you get up there and spoil the attacks of others. Try to run people over. Get them to shoot at you, but not enough to do too much damage. If they swarm you at close range, use Cluster Bombs. If they actually get through your shields, then use the Construction Droid to repair the damage. Make sure whomever is flying the GR75 understands this.

OK....I figure I should also explain the mechanics for the CR90. The real trick is Han Solo, Weapons Engineer, and Sensor Team. They all work together. Sensor Team lets you get a TL up to R5 of someone. Weapons Eng. lets you get 2 Target Locks. Remember that the CR90 doesn't get any Focus tokens. So, if you roll a bunch of eyeballs....you are screwed. So, Han Solo lets you spend a TL to turn all eyeballs into hits. So....if you roll the main gun and get 3 eyeballs, spend the TL and turn them into hits. Or...just use the TL's like regular TL's and re-roll on any of those attacks. The special modification for the CR90 is Optimized Generators. That means that whenever you put Energy on one of your sub systems (weapon systems), then you get 2 bonus
Energy. The CR90 requires a lot of Energy to fire it's guns, so you are probably putting Energy into your weapon systems. So....it works and helps you fire your weapon systems.

I did reduce the number of weapon systems on the CR90 to make it less complicated. You have the main gun that fires R 3-5 and 360 (except you can't fire through the engines). You also have an Ion Cannon Battery in the front that fires R 2-4. This thing is best used against enemy capital ships. If/when it hits, it will DEAL A CRITICAL HIT to the target. Through the shields! Just....BAM! If you look at the critical hits for Epic.....they are nasty and many of them will just cost you the game if you have them. So....this is a good weapon to plan on using and it has good range. You don't have anything that can fire at R 1 of the front, though. So, watch out for that. The rear section only has Quad Lasers that fire R 1-2. So....if something gets close, you fire with those.

OK......here is the simplified Imperial list. I removed some of the Crew and Teams off the Raider. I got rid of Tarkin. He's kind of hard to remember each round, anyways. I made the Raider just more straight forward to use. It uses the Modification Ordnance Tubes, which replaces the other energy weapons with ordnance. This is really good because you don't need as much Energy to fire your weapons like the CR90 does. The bad news is that you have to have a TL to fire and you can't fire them past R 3. So.....whomever is flying this ship will want to go fast towards the enemy. The main gun does fire out to R 4 and if you spend 1 Energy, you can fire it a second time. That's pretty good as you don't usually need to spend Energy on much. Since you are so reliant on Target Locks, I gave them a Weapons Engineer so that you can take 2 TL whenever you are supposed to grab 1. Also, the front section has Homing Missiles, which don't require spending the TL. The rear has Homing Missiles and Ion Torpedoes. The Ion Torpedoes spend the TL. So....if you have targets in arc of both the front and the rear, don't spend the TL on the first Homing Missile shot and you will be able to fire all three ordnance tubes in the same turn. There is a bonus, though. If you manage to kill someone, the Impetuous title lets you get a free TL if you kill someone, which then turns into 2 TL with Weapons Engineer. So, I might recommend shooting your Homing Missiles and Ion Torpedo first to see if you can do some damage and kill something. If so, then you can get new TL's and use them for your main gun. Oh, I also left the Ordnance Team on the Raider. This team can (once per round) change a blank result on a Missile or Torpedo to a hit for the price of 1 Energy. It has a range 1-3, so even if the Raider doesn't need it, you can use it for the Tie Advanced missiles (if they are in range).

Please note that the Ion Torpedo is for crowd control. Yes, you still roll 4 red dice and all those dice do damage. So, you can fire it at a big ship if you want, but everything in R 1 of whatever you hit gets an Ion token. So, if you hit the lead Y-wing, then ZARCH! All of them are Ionized and only moving 1 forward next turn. Maybe you can run them over? Don't forget to read up on the rules for Ion tokens on epic ships. The CR90 has the Ion Battery and the Raider has the Ion Torpedo.

Besides that, the only other thing the Raider has is the WED-15 Repair Droid. Spend 1 Energy to remove a damage card from the Raider. Spend 3 Energy to remove 1 critical damage card from the Raider. So...the only thing the Raider needs to spend money on is firing the main gun a 2nd time, repairing damage with the Droid, and then replenishing it's shields. That's the benefit of the Raider. Just watch out, though, as the CR90 will be able to fire at you first from longer range.

The Gozanti is a bit simplified. It has the title if you put a Target Lock on someone, you remove all good tokens. It's only weapon is the Dual Laser Turret, which fires R 1-3. You can start off with something docked, but you don't have to. You can only un-dock 2 ships at a time. It has an Engineering Team, so if it goes straight, it gets a free Energy. It also has Automated Protocols, so you do your TL to mess with someone, spend an Energy, and can then do either a Reinforce, or Replenish Shields. I wanted to give someone in the game the Shield Technician. Now, normally when you Replenish Shields, you need to spend ALL your Energy, even if it's wasted. The Shield Tech lets you spend only as much as you want, which is nice. So, if you want to save some for next turn or save some for your gun, you can do that. Nothing crazy, but hey, someone gets practice with it. Lastly, I added Moff Jerjerrod to the ship. He basically dies so that you can discard one critical hit. That's it. A little insurance. This ship flies up, TL's to mess with someone, Reinforces for protection, and then fires his little cannon.

What did I do with the extra points? Well, I did something people don't normally do. I gave the 3 Tie Adv. X1's missiles. Not just any missiles, but Advanced Homing Missiles. Yes, they only fire at R 2 and they only roll 3 red dice, but if they hit, they push a Critical Hit through shields and everything. They are keeping their Adv. Targeting Computers, which give an extra Crit when you don't spend the TL, but if you find yourself at R 2 of an Epic ship, then you can fire away. I think this is a really good weapon to use against the GR75. With the enemy title, it can block a lot of damage. If you start dishing out Critical Hits to the ship through shields and all that, then you can really hurt it. Yes, you will have to get past the 2 Reinforce tokens (or shoot it in the other section that doesn't have Reinforce that turn), but you also have Guidance Chip which will turn one miss into a hit. It's a neat thing that can really rip apart either the CR90 or the GR75. Maybe a waste, but it looked fun.

Cool, two lists. One with a few less abilities and one with a few more.

Awesome thanks. Now I have to work on the new players and get them moving toward Epic.