Now that you've gotten to try them out a bit, what do you think? What are the best Tie D builds?

What are they good for?

What are they bad against? (Anyone else hating big ships like me?)

They're probably the closest thing to an all-rounder in the current meta tbh. No major weaknesses but also no amazing strengths/things they hard counter.

(Anyone else hating big ships like me?)

TIE/D is fine against big ships if you use the ion cannon. I always run my defenders in pairs, and a few days ago I flew an Outrider off the board, and almost did the same to a Ghost.

I find that they're somewhat susceptible to arc dodgers (at least in a 1-on-1 or 2-on-2) but that can be mitigated with good flying and covering each other's flanks at the 100 point level. Carnor Jax is also the bane of X7 defenders but he's the bane of most imperial ships anyway.

Apart from that, I find I don't have too much trouble beating dengaroo or RAC (though uboats is always a stressful matchup), and against IGs initiative is important if you're flying Vessery and/or Glaives.

I really like to have a Delta/x7 for 28 points. As a blocker a hard nut to crack and able to do some damage.

Of course they fire usually last, which for 28 points is a big disadvantage - also predator works on them almost like a TL.

But thanks to the evade, they usually get in to the death dance of K-turns - which an be a major advantage - or a disadvantage, because your opponent will predict your k-turns nearly every time.

Omega Leader, Carnor, Gunner-FCS Whisper, Homing Missiles, Connor Nets, Bombs with Sabine, they all love Defenders.

But thanks to the evade, they usually get in to the death dance of K-turns - which an be a major advantage - or a disadvantage, because your opponent will predict your k-turns nearly every time.

The K-Turn (in general) is one of the most easily predicted maneuvers in the game. For any ship, not only the Defender.

However, with Defenders, there are times your opponent can do nothing about it, even if he see it coming.

Defenders are right up there in my opinion, the /x7 especially. Point for point they are definitely one of the most efficient ships in the game (if you consider the free evade to be equivilent to a free shield upgrade every turn, plus the two point reduction in base cost its easy to see why they are so powerful).

I've seen them work equally well with a 3 defender build or 2 (normally ryad and vessery with palpatine), and given the new cards in wave 9 we may end up seeing them replace the traditional aces quite regularly (although only time will tell if cards like BMST will live up to the hype).

However, they are generally fairly low PS for ships in that price range and also dont have access to autothrusters so this actually be a good thing in terms of shifting the meta slightly.

I think the /d title is actually how you beat the x7. Nothing melts a token stack like giving 3 ships the firepower of 6.

Except of course that you don't get as much /d for your money, and three /x7s should be able to PS kill one.

I find that they're somewhat susceptible to arc dodgers (at least in a 1-on-1 or 2-on-2) but that can be mitigated with good flying and covering each other's flanks at the 100 point level. Carnor Jax is also the bane of X7 defenders but he's the bane of most imperial ships anyway.

Apart from that, I find I don't have too much trouble beating dengaroo or RAC (though uboats is always a stressful matchup), and against IGs initiative is important if you're flying Vessery and/or Glaives.

If you're getting arc dodged you're flying them wrong they Arnt knife fighters you should stay at 2-3 with defenders.

I find that they're somewhat susceptible to arc dodgers (at least in a 1-on-1 or 2-on-2) but that can be mitigated with good flying and covering each other's flanks at the 100 point level. Carnor Jax is also the bane of X7 defenders but he's the bane of most imperial ships anyway.

Apart from that, I find I don't have too much trouble beating dengaroo or RAC (though uboats is always a stressful matchup), and against IGs initiative is important if you're flying Vessery and/or Glaives.

If you're getting arc dodged you're flying them wrong they Arnt knife fighters you should stay at 2-3 with defenders.

I have plenty of experience beating aces with defenders, you just have to be careful in the approach. I find that a lot of people just point them in the right direction and go, which is why I said they're "somewhat susceptible" and not "useless against." Of course, in a 1-on-1 with Ryad against Soontir, the Soontir player is probably going to win most of the time if you assume equal player skill.

It's just cool to hear about Tie Defenders on top tables.

Of course, in a 1-on-1 with Ryad against Soontir, the Soontir player is probably going to win most of the time if you assume equal player skill.

I don't know, with extra hp and rerolls from target lock or lone wolf combined with repeated 5ks it doesn't seem too bad for countess

Definitely up there, I think. They lack the obvious power of something like Dengaroo or the triple Jumpmasters but they have no real weaknesses either.

Ultimately I think that lack of pure power might be the thing that stops them being truly top tier but recent results seem to suggest that might not be the case. Either way I'm happy to see Defenders finally being used after a long time spent gathering dust.

Of course, in a 1-on-1 with Ryad against Soontir, the Soontir player is probably going to win most of the time if you assume equal player skill.

I don't know, with extra hp and refills from target lock or lone wolf combined with repeated 5ks it doesn't seem too bad for countess

I tend to agree. Ryad most of the time be able to move in ways that prevent Soontir from getting quality shots unopposed, and she's got Evade/Focus for the turns he gets low quality shots. Heck, at Gencon, I had a game where I took Soontir to time with a TIE/D, just because he couldn't open up to attack me without getting hammered in return, and that was Steele, who didn't have Ryad's nice selection of K-turns.

I've enjoyed Vessery T/D with VI & Ion plus any mod with extra points along side Inquisitor and Omega. Although, you can talk about your defenders all you want, I'm thoroughly enjoying my Tie Bomber list including Tomax, 2 Gamma Vets, and Wampa. All 3 bombers with homing missiles and crackshot. Go ahead x7s and take those evade tokens

I just placed second with a list made up of 2 Defenders (Vessery and Countess) and a TAP (Inquisitor). My only loss came due to the clock. I felt I created a list that covered all the angles. Both Defenders had Juke to help them with high agility ships. They were also sporting the x7 title to give them a free Evade every round. (No mater what, I took a 3,4, or 5 move every round.) The Inquisitor ran with PTL and the V1 title to help Vessery gain free target locks.

This list destroyed 2 big ship builds without issue. I had two 100 - 0 games. With that free evade token, it generally took 3 ships shooting at the same defender to do any real damage. PS 9 Aces took a little longer to box in, but Juke (and white K turns) helped get the damage through.

I agree that it's a solid ship without weakness but without being overwhelming. If it is the Empires best fighter design, it's nice that it is arguably the best head-to-head fighter. It's also fun to fly ships who are not only good at the top, specific pilots, but are used with general squad-level pilots too.

I hate them. My TIE fighters have more trouble with them than any of the other meta builds.

Tie/D = tie don't

Tie/x7 = eXtra seven rounds of life

X7s compete at the absolute highest level imo

X7s compete at the absolute highest level imo

This isn't even opinion at this point, x7's won and populated the Australian nationals top 16 pretty solidly.

They're darn good

Even juggler I believe found them mathematically in line with the silliness of imp aces

I believe that's right and they have the benefit of not exploding instantly if their green dice are too fickle.

"Major's Palpfenders" has won two nationals: Canada and Australia. Safe to say Defenders (at least the x7 variety) are here to stay. Biophysical's double D with an Academy should not be overlooked though. One of the guys down here has been wrecking face with it.

I am curious to see how Defenders do in the wave 9 meta though...