Title says it all! Discuss!

I think it'd be neato.

You can't?

End of discussion.

Mystic Role gives you the Psyker elite advance and the prerequisite for the Untouchable Elite advance is not having the Psyker elite advance?

Mystic says that you start the game with the Psyker Elite Advance, not at which point you receive it. If one bought the Untouchable Elite Advance in char gen, then I imagine the Psyker Elite Advance from the Role Bonus would be ignored, no?

Both cancel out each other, and it doesn't say at what specific step you receive the Psyker Elite Advance, not at RAW afaik. As a GM, I'd allow the choice of either.

Starts the game implies when character creation is finished and as the session begins. You receive it immediately since the order of operations is Home World - Background - Role - Elite Advance. the Role of Mystic gives an immediate Elite Advancement, which takes precedent over one you'd buy after it's all said and done.

My book says starts the game with the Psyker elite advance, and at Stage 3. Nothing I see in Stage 1-2 seem to allow you to snag the Elite Advance for Untouchable, before you acquire the role of Mystic, which would block the Untouchable acquisition; for the most part, you are born a Psyker, or you are born a Blank, while everything regarding the Mystic role alludes to it expecting to be your "I'm a Psyker" choice. As a GM, I'd say no to it, and ask what about Mystic you really want, aside from the free Psyker EA you are trying to deny yourself, with another, mutually exclusive EA that won't be free, and say you can probably pick those up as other Elite Advances, like any other character.

Of course, it's your game, so this only means as much as you care for it too, and some writings do try to claim that, in a way, psykers and blanks are simply opposite ends of the same thing, plus they do cost the same, as Elite Advances, while Untouchable then makes you buy numerous, possibly expensive talents, many of which Mystic will help you buy, instead of ups to your rating, and various powers. I'd probably still say no, but I could see where one might argue that it works, and try to discuss it with the GM, but maybe not get the hopes up. Best of luck.

My first question as a GM would be 'why'?

What are you trying to achieve with that combination?

What exactly makes it 'neato'?

My first question as a GM would be 'why'?

What are you trying to achieve with that combination?

What exactly makes it 'neato'?

For the benefits, I see what is (from what I could gather by looking around the books and trying to find a duplicate combo) a unique set of aptitudes available, that do benefit an Untouchable greatly. Just those five aptitudes, compared with what's given by other roles, already allow for a bit of defence mixed in with science, and whatever you'd take from Per and WP. If the GM would allow for another Talent of the same cost due to doubling up on Resistance (Psychic Powers) then that's also another plus in my book.

Starts the game implies when character creation is finished and as the session begins.

My book says starts the game with the Psyker elite advance, and at Stage 3. Nothing I see in Stage 1-2 seem to allow you to snag the Elite Advance for Untouchable, before you acquire the role of Mystic, which would block the Untouchable acquisition.

What I question here is if the RAW actually applies the Role before any Elite Advances? As it would imply, you'd gain the Elite Advance at the end of Character Creation, but the order of operation that you're suggesting here...

You receive it immediately since the order of operations is Home World - Background - Role - Elite Advance. the Role of Mystic gives an immediate Elite Advancement, which takes precedent over one you'd buy after it's all said and done.

...Doesn't seem to support that? At least not as far as I know. I would think that because you've purchased the Elite Advance during character creation for Untouchable, and then are given the Psyker Elite Advance, that the latter is bounced off rather than the former?

What I'd like to think that the choosing of the role would mean, in the fluff, is that there's a more deeper and synonymous understanding of Psykers as oppose to an antonymous one.

Starts the game implies when character creation is finished and as the session begins.

What I question here is if the RAW actually applies the Role before any Elite Advances? As it would imply, you'd gain the Elite Advance at the end of Character Creation, but the order of operation that you're suggesting here...

You receive it immediately since the order of operations is Home World - Background - Role - Elite Advance. the Role of Mystic gives an immediate Elite Advancement, which takes precedent over one you'd buy after it's all said and done.

...Doesn't seem to support that? At least not as far as I know. I would think that because you've purchased the Elite Advance during character creation for Untouchable, and then are given the Psyker Elite Advance, that the latter is bounced off rather than the former?

What I'd like to think that the choosing of the role would mean, in the fluff, is that there's a more deeper and synonymous understanding of Psykers as oppose to an antonymous one.

You don't get XP to spend until you are done choosing your role so you can't buy an elite advance unless a role specifically states to take it.

Yes it does support it, look at the answer above.

My first question as a GM would be 'why'?

What are you trying to achieve with that combination?

What exactly makes it 'neato'?

For the benefits, I see what is (from what I could gather by looking around the books and trying to find a duplicate combo) a unique set of aptitudes available, that do benefit an Untouchable greatly. Just those five aptitudes, compared with what's given by other roles, already allow for a bit of defence mixed in with science, and whatever you'd take from Per and WP. If the GM would allow for another Talent of the same cost due to doubling up on Resistance (Psychic Powers) then that's also another plus in my book.

I see.

In that case, to continue my previous hypothetical, my answer would be a polite but firm 'no'.

If you want that mix of aptitudes you'd have a lot better chance, I'd guess, lobbying the GM to allow players to simply choose aptitudes, rather than presenting a very counter-intuitive and rules-lawyer-y interpretation of the exact order of operations of character creation that benefits exactly 1 person at the table.

Is there an order for apptitudes in terms of homeworld gives you x and y, background z, and role a that might facilitate that kind of thing?

Or is it more random?

Fair enough. I guess that settles that thought.

I do want to hear more about this aptitude-pick system though.

There is no way RAW that allows a non-psyker to get double aptitudes in Willpower advances, which I imagine was the main drive for this question. As for ways around this, a free aptitude-pick system is certainly one way. I'm more in favour of extending Leadership as an optional replacement of Psyker aptitude for Willpower given that Leadership currently blows and it makes sense for a leader to be iron-willed and resolute. I also like Doc's house rule that if you pick up the Willpower aptitude twice, you can choose to count as having two aptitudes for Willpower rather than getting another characertistic aptitude.

I also like Doc's house rule that if you pick up the Willpower aptitude twice, you can choose to count as having two aptitudes for Willpower rather than getting another characertistic aptitude.

I was just about to say that before I read the rest of your reply.

There is no way RAW that allows a non-psyker to get double aptitudes in Willpower advances, which I imagine was the main drive for this question.

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. You can easily get the Psyker Aptitude by picking Adeptus Astra Telepathica as your Background. So a Shrine Worlder/Astra Telepathica ( Defense /Psyker)/anything without any Elite Advances would always have cheap advancements in Willpower.

I'm more in favour of extending Leadership as an optional replacement of Psyker aptitude for Willpower given that Leadership currently blows and it makes sense for a leader to be iron-willed and resolute.

This on the other Hand I can agree on. Leadership really needs the boost and the Psyker Aptitude - while not impossible to get - is VERY elusive.

About the main question of the Thread... If I were your gm, you could simply exchange the Mystics Psyker Elite Advance for the Untouchable EA. Both are supposed to cost 300xp and I don't consider that too bad a break in fluff. One way or the other, you are a student of the currents of the Warp. Whether by calling upon them, to study them, or by being able to get closer than anyone else...

Besides, you're still somewhat punished in the way, that the Role Talent would be a bit of a waste on you... since Warp Sense requires a Psy Rating (which you don't own) and Untouchables already own Resistance (Psychic Powers) by default.

Then again, I get that not every table is as positive towards players ideas.