Personally, I can't see them allowing a game effect that gives you stress in the middle of the activation phase.

There are effects already in the game that can do that.

Personally, I can't see them allowing a game effect that gives you stress in the middle of the activation phase.

There are effects already in the game that can do that.

I mean give an enemy ship....if you Adv Sens + PTL or Mindlink yourself, that's your fault.

I'm unaware of a game effect that allows you drop a stress on an enemy ship before they've moved.

Personally, I can't see them allowing a game effect that gives you stress in the middle of the activation phase.

There are effects already in the game that can do that.

I mean give an enemy ship....if you Adv Sens + PTL or Mindlink yourself, that's your fault.

I'm unaware of a game effect that allows you drop a stress on an enemy ship before they've moved.

I believe he was referring to the fact you can drop a Proximity mine on someone and they can roll up the crit that gives them stress. Its extremely unlikely but its still been there for a while.

Just a random thought. I'm sure this would be hard to pull off but what happens if you drop the cloud on someone who has yet to reveal their dial, they get the stress immediately and then they reveal a red maneuver they had set before they were stressed? Do they hand over the dial like normal if you attempt to execute a red maneuver while stressed?

Just a random thought. I'm sure this would be hard to pull off but what happens if you drop the cloud on someone who has yet to reveal their dial, they get the stress immediately and then they reveal a red maneuver they had set before they were stressed? Do they hand over the dial like normal if you attempt to execute a red maneuver while stressed?

Yessir. Your opponent gets to plot your legal move.

Just a random thought. I'm sure this would be hard to pull off but what happens if you drop the cloud on someone who has yet to reveal their dial, they get the stress immediately and then they reveal a red maneuver they had set before they were stressed? Do they hand over the dial like normal if you attempt to execute a red maneuver while stressed?

Yessir. Your opponent gets to plot your legal move.

We were just talking about this above. I dont think this is true. Unless it gets FAQ'ed, the only way to get stress from a debris field is after your "check pilot stress" step, right? Here's the reference card. When a debris gets dropped on you, there is no "check pilot stress" step, so it wouldn't trigger.

However, I do think you roll for damage, as that isn't attached to any step or phase, according to the reference card.

Just a random thought. I'm sure this would be hard to pull off but what happens if you drop the cloud on someone who has yet to reveal their dial, they get the stress immediately and then they reveal a red maneuver they had set before they were stressed? Do they hand over the dial like normal if you attempt to execute a red maneuver while stressed?

Yessir. Your opponent gets to plot your legal move.

We were just talking about this above. I dont think this is true. Unless it gets FAQ'ed, the only way to get stress from a debris field is after your "check pilot stress" step, right? Here's the reference card. When a debris gets dropped on you, there is no "check pilot stress" step, so it wouldn't trigger.

However, I do think you roll for damage, as that isn't attached to any step or phase, according to the reference card.

Strongly disagree. The second card (Using Cargo) explicitly says "it's effects are applied immediately." It is clear that the intention is 1. for the ship this is dropped on to receive a stress and roll a die immediately, and 2. allow double-stressing for K-turning through the token.

When a debris gets dropped on you, there is no "check pilot stress" step, so it wouldn't trigger.

Which is the exact same argument that was used when we were debating asteroids/debris fields and tractor beams.

So once again, if you want to say that you don't take a stress from a dropped debris field, then you must also say that tractor beams don't cause a ship to roll for damage when dragged over an asteroid.

It seems to me however that the intent is to apply all effects from obstacles in both cases, but I don't care to argue intent, so I won't. I will simply point out that the wording is pretty much the same for the errata'ed TB and the Using Cargo card.

TB says - "The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps." Using Cargo says - "it's effects are applied immediately"

When a debris gets dropped on you, there is no "check pilot stress" step, so it wouldn't trigger.

Which is the exact same argument that was used when we were debating asteroids/debris fields and tractor beams.

So once again, if you want to say that you don't take a stress from a dropped debris field, then you must also say that tractor beams don't cause a ship to roll for damage when dragged over an asteroid.

It seems to me however that the intent is to apply all effects from obstacles in both cases, but I don't care to argue intent, so I won't. I will simply point out that the wording is pretty much the same for the errata'ed TB and the Using Cargo card.

TB says - "The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps." Using Cargo says - "it's effects are applied immediately"

Sadly it's another case of inconsistent wording, but that aside, it still seems VERY clear to me that you suffer ALL the effects of whatever you just landed on or whatever just got dropped on you.

The Devs have come out several times now to say they use "Conversational English" when writing these cards. As in, not intended to be rules lawyered to death. The wording is fairly clear when you don't try to read too much into it. Get a rigged chute dropped on you, take stress, roll to see if you get a crit result.

Obstacles acts as hazards that can disrupt and damage ships. When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps an obstacle token, it executes its maneuver as normal but suffers an effect based on the type of obstacle:

as clear as water.

if a ship executes a maneuver.....

if i dump debris on a ship that stand stil it does nothing until he moves.

Obstacles acts as hazards that can disrupt and damage ships. When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps an obstacle token, it executes its maneuver as normal but suffers an effect based on the type of obstacle:

as clear as water.

if a ship executes a maneuver.....

if i dump debris on a ship that stand still it does nothing until he moves.

If a base overlaps an obstacle...suffers an effect based on the type of obstacle.

When you drop the debris on top of a ship it is overlapped. Effects happen immediately.

when a ship executes a maneuver.... there is a , in the sentence specifying the conditions next. so if you execute a maneuver and by doing so your moving template or base overlaps an obstacle token obviously during this maneuver you can execute its maneuver as normal but you suffer the obstacle effect.

Do not take a small portion of a sentence and make a new rule.

It clearly is part of this sentence and is not a loose sentence.

so i still say if a ship executes a maneuver

when a ship executes a maneuver.... there is a , in the sentence specifying the conditions next. so if you execute a maneuver and by doing so your moving template or base overlaps an obstacle token obviously during this maneuver you can execute its maneuver as normal but you suffer the obstacle effect.

Do not take a small portion of a sentence and make a new rule.

It clearly is part of this sentence and is not a loose sentence.

so i still say if a ship executes a maneuver

I still say you're reading too much into the base rules, and skipping the card that says quite clearly " if a cargo token is dropped on a ship it is placed under it's base and it's effects are applied immediately "

Superseding the usual timing, and instead applying the effects at the timing provided.

The base rules for debris weren't written to account for the fact that a new debris could be added or debris moved.

In this case the card rules should supercede the base rules. Full overlap debris effects happen immedately as indicated.

If one really wants to get hung up on the movement aspect it's there anyway, with the template moving and not the ship.

Conner net rules (the closest comparison) would seem to indicate a player with a red maanuver would still complete it finishing double stressed, that part is far less clear.

Take a deep breath and wait for the FAQ.

Take a deep breath and wait for the FAQ.

Indeed. It can't be far away now.

I hear it's on the boat...

when a ship executes a maneuver.... there is a , in the sentence specifying the conditions next. so if you execute a maneuver and by doing so your moving template or base overlaps an obstacle token obviously during this maneuver you can execute its maneuver as normal but you suffer the obstacle effect.

Do not take a small portion of a sentence and make a new rule.

It clearly is part of this sentence and is not a loose sentence.

so i still say if a ship executes a maneuver

I still say you're reading too much into the base rules, and skipping the card that says quite clearly " if a cargo token is dropped on a ship it is placed under it's base and it's effects are applied immediately "

Superseding the usual timing, and instead applying the effects at the timing provided.

This is correct, but incomplete. It DOES suffer both effects, but "take a stress" isn't an effect of a debris cloud. It's "take a stress after the Check Pilot Stress step".

Basically, this is the truncated version:

When you execute a maneuver and hit a debris cloud, execute the following steps:

1. Take a stress token after the "Check Pilot Stress" step
2. Roll for Damage

Now, this is what happens when someone drops a debris cloud on you:

When you execute a maneuver and hit a debris cloud, immediately execute the following effects:

1. Take a stress token after the "Check Pilot Stress" step (there isn't one)
2. Roll for Damage

I think the same thing applies for Tractor Beaming someone onto a debris cloud...don't see why it wouldn't. I think this is pretty iron clad, but I suppose it could get FAQ'ed. However, I don't see FFG (again, there's the intent argument) ruling in favor of such a thing.

I mean, debris fielding someone with a red move so they go off the board shouldn't be a tactic...right?

when a ship executes a maneuver.... there is a , in the sentence specifying the conditions next. so if you execute a maneuver and by doing so your moving template or base overlaps an obstacle token obviously during this maneuver you can execute its maneuver as normal but you suffer the obstacle effect.

Do not take a small portion of a sentence and make a new rule.

It clearly is part of this sentence and is not a loose sentence.

so i still say if a ship executes a maneuver

I still say you're reading too much into the base rules, and skipping the card that says quite clearly " if a cargo token is dropped on a ship it is placed under it's base and it's effects are applied immediately "

Superseding the usual timing, and instead applying the effects at the timing provided.

This is correct, but incomplete. It DOES suffer both effects, but "take a stress" isn't an effect of a debris cloud. It's "take a stress after the Check Pilot Stress step".

Basically, this is the truncated version:

When you execute a maneuver and hit a debris cloud, execute the following steps:

1. Take a stress token after the "Check Pilot Stress" step
2. Roll for Damage

Now, this is what happens when someone drops a debris cloud on you:

When you execute a maneuver and hit a debris cloud, immediately execute the following effects:

1. Take a stress token after the "Check Pilot Stress" step (there isn't one)
2. Roll for Damage

I think the same thing applies for Tractor Beaming someone onto a debris cloud...don't see why it wouldn't. I think this is pretty iron clad, but I suppose it could get FAQ'ed. However, I don't see FFG (again, there's the intent argument) ruling in favor of such a thing.

I mean, debris fielding someone with a red move so they go off the board shouldn't be a tactic...right?

I have to assume a FAQ is on the way, however as a TO and as someone who converses with a lot of other TO's about how things are being ruled in the wilds of tournaments right now - Pretty much everyone is having them stress and roll on drop.

Anyway it is now clear and resolved in last FAQ. This now cover any weird case that could happen in the future.

I can totally get behind the stress being applied upon being dropped now that the conditions governing red maneuvers have been revised. Also, my scum list just lost it's one point bid. Time to add some rigged cargo.