You're late to the party OP, stress changed from being a penalty to be a currency - many waves ago.

This was intentional so I doubt that they'll go back any time soon.

Isn't the main problem that the jumpmaster dial is just too good? That is why Dengaroo and U-Boats are great.

And the Partybus' dial is "bad" enough not to care about stress either, since Dengar is good enough to guarantee a decent amount of hits.

I think the partybus' is ok as it is. The YV was a decent ship since it came out and now it's pretty good. Scum has just a few vialble choices, but those are really good. The crew slot is what makes scum so great, I would rather not have those cards turned down.

So I would rather tune down the jumpmasters dial so the stress matters more.

I think Tobbert nailed it. Zuckuss on the partybus doesn't bother me as much as Zuckuss on Dengar. The YV666 takes one magnificent shot a turn. Yeah, it hurts, particularly to fragile TIEs, but that's it. And the YV666 can't turn worth a Hutt once it's stressed out.

The Jumpmaster on the other hand... Yeah... You really need to either out think your opponent (not something I myself apparently am capable of yet) or depend on rolling better dice on attack than your opponent does.

Or maybe it's time to accept that in the current x-wing meta not everything has a shot at beating everything else.

There are plenty of lists that ruin Degnaroo's day just fine. Pretty much everything that either tanks by HP instead of green dice or is mobile enough to go after Manaroo is a big problem for Dengaroo to handle.

That's currently the case, yes. And it's a bad case to make. It encourages power creep and the 'must buy these ships to compete' scenarios that infested the GW games. Not saying it's not what FFG is going for, just noting the like similarities in thought patterns here.

Dengaroo - yes, I've beaten it as well. It's VERY difficult, since MOST ships can't bypass Dengar to get to Manaroo. Some lists have enough firepower that they don't care and wax Dengar anyway. That was my case.

So, we all know what stress is in X-wing (I looked again):

"A ship is stressed while it has a stress token assigned to it. A stressed ship cannot execute red maneuvers or perform actions, even free actions. A ship receives one stress token when it executes a red maneuver and removes one stress token when it executes a green maneuver. A ship can have more than one stress token assigned to it. Stress tokens are not removed during the End phase. When a ship executes a green maneuver, it removes one stress token from itself even if it moves through or overlaps an obstacle or another ship. A stressed ship cannot execute red maneuvers or perform actions. If a stressed ship reveals a red maneuver, the opposing player chooses any non-red maneuver on that ship's dial for that ship to execute."

Seems to me, the easiest way to elevate this stress piling issue is to simply change the one sentence in bold to limit the number of stress tokens.

Problem. Solved.

Tycho Celchu would like to have a word with you...

He's barely even played and doesn't have an issue with piling stress balance wise like others in the game. Plus with my suppressing thought dealing with pilot abilities wouldn't nerf him more because his pilot ability is during his activation phase.

Slicer Tools just outright murder Tycho anyway. He will never be useful when there's even a small chance of slicer tools fonging him six ways from sunday.

Tycho needs errata: "You cannot be assigned stress tokens. You cannot perform red manoeuvres." Done. He now works almost exactly the same way with the exception of things that cost a stress to use which he wasn't using anyway because they usually require you to be unstressed to begin with, and all his rage/PTL/EI glory still functions.

So, we all know what stress is in X-wing (I looked again):

"A ship is stressed while it has a stress token assigned to it. A stressed ship cannot execute red maneuvers or perform actions, even free actions. A ship receives one stress token when it executes a red maneuver and removes one stress token when it executes a green maneuver. A ship can have more than one stress token assigned to it. Stress tokens are not removed during the End phase. When a ship executes a green maneuver, it removes one stress token from itself even if it moves through or overlaps an obstacle or another ship. A stressed ship cannot execute red maneuvers or perform actions. If a stressed ship reveals a red maneuver, the opposing player chooses any non-red maneuver on that ship's dial for that ship to execute."

Seems to me, the easiest way to elevate this stress piling issue is to simply change the one sentence in bold to limit the number of stress tokens.

Problem. Solved.

Tycho Celchu would like to have a word with you...

He's barely even played and doesn't have an issue with piling stress balance wise like others in the game. Plus with my suppressing thought dealing with pilot abilities wouldn't nerf him more because his pilot ability is during his activation phase.

Slicer Tools just outright murder Tycho anyway. He will never be useful when there's even a small chance of slicer tools fonging him six ways from sunday.

Tycho needs errata: "You cannot be assigned stress tokens. You cannot perform red manoeuvres." Done. He now works almost exactly the same way with the exception of things that cost a stress to use which he wasn't using anyway because they usually require you to be unstressed to begin with, and all his rage/PTL/EI glory still functions.

Slicer Tools is a very nice addition to the game, BUT it still takes an action to use AND still only works half of the time range 1-2. It's not as automatic as others make it out to be.

Still doesn't help Tycho with 2 hull :/ .....alas, Tycho will still only be used for fun.

Anything that let's me hit Soontir, or x7 Defenders is ok in my book.

Especially if Palp is on the field. Had too many games where 2-3 turns of my shooting has done nothing.

You're OK with Palpatine because he's on a shuttle but not ok with zuckuss even though to make him really effective you have to bring manaroo?

the fact that Zuckuss exists for 1pt, selects any number of dice to reroll, and doesnt have a stress limiter bugs me. Why? Elusiveness. He is literally an insanely superior elusiveness card, only elusiveness COSTS MORE, only works on 1 die, and cant be used when stressed.

Im not a fan of "its this card +1" mechanics.

So, we all know what stress is in X-wing (I looked again):

"A ship is stressed while it has a stress token assigned to it. A stressed ship cannot execute red maneuvers or perform actions, even free actions. A ship receives one stress token when it executes a red maneuver and removes one stress token when it executes a green maneuver. A ship can have more than one stress token assigned to it. Stress tokens are not removed during the End phase. When a ship executes a green maneuver, it removes one stress token from itself even if it moves through or overlaps an obstacle or another ship. A stressed ship cannot execute red maneuvers or perform actions. If a stressed ship reveals a red maneuver, the opposing player chooses any non-red maneuver on that ship's dial for that ship to execute."

Seems to me, the easiest way to elevate this stress piling issue is to simply change the one sentence in bold to limit the number of stress tokens.

Problem. Solved.

Tycho Celchu would like to have a word with you...

He's barely even played and doesn't have an issue with piling stress balance wise like others in the game. Plus with my suppressing thought dealing with pilot abilities wouldn't nerf him more because his pilot ability is during his activation phase.

OK, yes, I get Tycho needing to stack some stress as he tries to maneuver for defense and to get good shots.....but would a maximum of 5 or 6 stress tokens be set before he can get some green relief? Seems unlimited stress is combat would illogical in ways...I have seen players piling up well over 20.....that's kinda beyond what the designers thought would happen, right?

So, we all know what stress is in X-wing (I looked again):

"A ship is stressed while it has a stress token assigned to it. A stressed ship cannot execute red maneuvers or perform actions, even free actions. A ship receives one stress token when it executes a red maneuver and removes one stress token when it executes a green maneuver. A ship can have more than one stress token assigned to it. Stress tokens are not removed during the End phase. When a ship executes a green maneuver, it removes one stress token from itself even if it moves through or overlaps an obstacle or another ship. A stressed ship cannot execute red maneuvers or perform actions. If a stressed ship reveals a red maneuver, the opposing player chooses any non-red maneuver on that ship's dial for that ship to execute."

Seems to me, the easiest way to elevate this stress piling issue is to simply change the one sentence in bold to limit the number of stress tokens.

Problem. Solved.

Tycho Celchu would like to have a word with you...

He's barely even played and doesn't have an issue with piling stress balance wise like others in the game. Plus with my suppressing thought dealing with pilot abilities wouldn't nerf him more because his pilot ability is during his activation phase.

OK, yes, I get Tycho needing to stack some stress as he tries to maneuver for defense and to get good shots.....but isn't 5 or 6 enough to stack before he can get some green relief? Seems unlimited stress is illogical in combat; it HAS to cause negative consequences beyond some movement and actions; right?

No.

Especially not for Tycho whose sole pilot ability is basically ignoring stress.

This is what I was getting at, it's a massive NPE experience for me when no matter how I fly, a turret with Zuckuss will make me reroll my evades and there isn't a **** thing I can do about it, it isn't player skill that's winning, it's sitting in the middle of the board letting RNG do all the work. People have bought up some very valid points and I appreciate the feedback, I just hope FFG have a bit of a look to get this style of NPE out of the Meta ASAP.

Have fun and thanks again!

see the problem here isn't zuckuss, it's the turret

stress always matters

even party bus loses focus mods and becomes far more predictable (can't stop and can't 2-turn; 3-turn is rough on large bases due to obstacles) and even dengaroo can't 180 flip outside the white 2-sloop and is no longer able to PS 9 barrel-roll

slap an in-arc restriction on zuckuss' ability. honestly don't know why any offensive upgrade doesn't have an in-arc restriction

This is what I was getting at, it's a massive NPE experience for me when no matter how I fly, a turret with Zuckuss will make me reroll my evades and there isn't a **** thing I can do about it, it isn't player skill that's winning, it's sitting in the middle of the board letting RNG do all the work. People have bought up some very valid points and I appreciate the feedback, I just hope FFG have a bit of a look to get this style of NPE out of the Meta ASAP.

Have fun and thanks again!

see the problem here isn't zuckuss, it's the turret

stress always matters

even party bus loses focus mods and becomes far more predictable (can't stop and can't 2-turn; 3-turn is rough on large bases due to obstacles) and even dengaroo can't 180 flip outside the white 2-sloop and is no longer able to PS 9 barrel-roll

slap an in-arc restriction on zuckuss' ability. honestly don't know why any offensive upgrade doesn't have an in-arc restriction

Yeah, in-arc only would be a pretty solid fix for Zuckuss.

Yes, Zuckuss is too good for one point.

If Zuckuss was too good for 1 point you'd see it on ships that can't simply ignore stress too. You don't.

Nonsense argument is nonsense.

It's like saying "If Palpatine is too good for aces, why isn't he run in TIE swarms?". Wrong tool for the job.

the fact that Zuckuss exists for 1pt, selects any number of dice to reroll, and doesnt have a stress limiter bugs me. Why? Elusiveness. He is literally an insanely superior elusiveness card, only elusiveness COSTS MORE, only works on 1 die, and cant be used when stressed.

Im not a fan of "its this card +1" mechanics.

I think Zuckuss is at least 1pt too cheap, but that Elusveiness comparison isn't really a good argument. You ever see anyone use Elusiveness (...maybe Ezra)? That's because Elusiveness is costed incorrectly. It should in no way be used as a gauge for other upgrades.

Yes, Zuckuss is too good for one point.

If Zuckuss was too good for 1 point you'd see it on ships that can't simply ignore stress too. You don't.

Nonsense argument is nonsense.

It's like saying "If Palpatine is too good for aces, why isn't he run in TIE swarms?". Wrong tool for the job.

If that would be the case, they would not have limited the TIE-Shuttle to exclude Palpatine. He is the right tool, he is just not fitting into the toolbox.

If that would be the case, they would not have limited the TIE-Shuttle to exclude Palpatine. He is the right tool, he is just not fitting into the toolbox.

If only there were some way to ferry Palpatine around and put TIE Fighters in the same list! If only there were some kind of other shuttle that would carry Palp. A "Palp Shuttle", if you will. Oh well, we can always dream.

Yes, Zuckuss is too good for one point.

If Zuckuss was too good for 1 point you'd see it on ships that can't simply ignore stress too. You don't.

Nonsense argument is nonsense.

It's like saying "If Palpatine is too good for aces, why isn't he run in TIE swarms?". Wrong tool for the job.

Nonsense argument is nonsense fits your argument even better.

Palpatine is used competitively on anything that can carry him (Shuttle and Decimator). He's that good.

Zuckuss is only used competitively on ships that can ignore his drawback which IMO suggest that he's not worth it if you can't. Please provide a counter-argument, a competitive list that uses Zuckuss without being able to ignore his drawbacks.

Stress always matters. Dengaroo sacrifices 45+ points and the ability to barrel roll to handle being stressed all the time. The party bus sacrifices half the dial and the ability to focus and the ability to turn crits face down.

Zuckuss is only used competitively on ships that can ignore his drawback which IMO suggest that he's not worth it if you can't. Please provide a counter-argument, a competitive list that uses Zuckuss without being able to ignore his drawbacks.

U-Boat, U-Boat, Party Bus.

Party Bus doesn't "ignore the drawbacks". It loses access to the two turns and stops being able to take focus tokens. Honestly, Rigged Cargo Chute and Burnout Slam are really good illicits for 1pt that the Party Bus probably won't be able to take and won't be able to use, because it'll be too loaded up with stress to perform those actions. Even Dengar loses his barrel roll.

Also, you asked me to name a competitive list that uses Zuckuss without being able to ignore his drawbacks. I'll do you one better, how about you name me a competitive Scum list with open crew slots that doesn't take Zuckuss? Hold on, I'm flipping through the Top 32 in Australian Nationals, ...nope, looks like Zuckuss is in every Scum list with a crew slot. I guess he's that good. Perhaps, too good for one point?

Don't get me wrong, I do not think Zuckuss is ruining the game, just that he might really be worth like, 2 points at minimum.

I hate seeing card erratas, and I don't think this is severe enough to do it.

If anything is to be changed, change the core rules to where a certain amount of stress does something else as well.

If anything is to be changed, change the core rules to where a certain amount of stress does something else as well.

....large base ships with at least 3 stress tokens can be ionized by one ion token? /shrug

I hate seeing card erratas, and I don't think this is severe enough to do it.

If anything is to be changed, change the core rules to where a certain amount of stress does something else as well.

I agree, possibly something like 'at the start of combat roll 1 red die for every x stress tokens on your ship and suffer each hit or crit'.

I mean, to be fair, the stress from Zuckuss still matters, so I don't understand the complaint?

It still prevents the ship from performing Red Maneuvers or getting a Perform Action Step during their activation phase. Those are real drawbacks and costs. The point of a Zuckuss Party-Bus or Dengar, though, is that the list assumes the benefits of Zuckuss' forced-rerolls on offense is worth more than the loss of Red Maneuvers and a Perform Action Step.

Stress tokens always matter, just in some builds they don't matter enough to keep from piling on in the right circumstances.

Scum also benefit from having lots of other upgrades that have powerful benefits and pile on stress, regardless of if you are already stressed and regardless of if you get actions or not: Inertial Dampeners, Glitterstim, and Overclocked Astromech, for instance.

I hate seeing card erratas, and I don't think this is severe enough to do it.

If anything is to be changed, change the core rules to where a certain amount of stress does something else as well.

I agree, possibly something like 'at the start of combat roll 1 red die for every x stress tokens on your ship and suffer each hit or crit'.

Sorry Tycho! Also, hello BTL-4 Stresshog Y-Wing, now you're possibly doing extra damage in addition to your three attacks a turn and double-stress control.

I hate seeing card erratas, and I don't think this is severe enough to do it.

If anything is to be changed, change the core rules to where a certain amount of stress does something else as well.

I agree, possibly something like 'at the start of combat roll 1 red die for every x stress tokens on your ship and suffer each hit or crit'.

Sorry Tycho! Also, hello BTL-4 Stresshog Y-Wing, now you're possibly doing extra damage in addition to your three attacks a turn and double-stress control.

true, it'd have to be a pretty high number to trigger. I think it would punish dengar worst though, tycho is at least capable of easily losing stress while staying agile.

I don't think you need to change anything about the way stress works, or the cards/combos that can abuse it. Just introduce more things that prey on stressed opponents like they're doing with Slicer Tools and Latts.

I could see a cool EPT like Outmaneuver being a cool way to go too:

Prey on the Weak:

When attacking, if the defender is stressed, [some effect that benefits the attacker].

Some Crew:

At the start of the combat phase, choose an enemy ship at range 1. You may flip one facedown damage card faceup for each stress token on that ship.