APT with Dodonna, and only with Dodonna (or a list built specifically to punch through shields).

The question isn't APT vs RR, then--it's ACM vs RR. And the answer is "it depends." If your meta is heavy on Targeting Scramblers and your list doesn't have an effective way to quickly deal with Interdictor, RR is the better option. If your list includes a way to quickly kill or neuter the TS or your meta doesn't see TS a lot, and you're not either running Dodonna or otherwise depend on punching through shields rather than overwhelming them, then ACM. If you can handle any TS's and are running Dodonna or spamming XI7, APT is the best option.

All that said, the calculus comes out pretty close on most of these options, so if you have a strong personal preference for one or the other, you're generally not wrong to just run that.

I've been waffling on the issue, running Dodonna APT's with a CR90B with MS-1 to shut down Interdictor's title and Targeting Scramblers before I shoot.

I've just started building cr90s with Ms-1

APT with Dodonna, and only with Dodonna (or a list built specifically to punch through shields).

The question isn't APT vs RR, then--it's ACM vs RR. And the answer is "it depends." If your meta is heavy on Targeting Scramblers and your list doesn't have an effective way to quickly deal with Interdictor, RR is the better option. If your list includes a way to quickly kill or neuter the TS or your meta doesn't see TS a lot, and you're not either running Dodonna or otherwise depend on punching through shields rather than overwhelming them, then ACM. If you can handle any TS's and are running Dodonna or spamming XI7, APT is the best option.

All that said, the calculus comes out pretty close on most of these options, so if you have a strong personal preference for one or the other, you're generally not wrong to just run that.

I've been waffling on the issue, running Dodonna APT's with a CR90B with MS-1 to shut down Interdictor's title and Targeting Scramblers before I shoot.

I've just started building cr90s with Ms-1

It's great, cheap insurance against Interdictor/TS, while still serving a pretty good role in any other matchup. Worst case you're up against something with no exhausts and you've wasted 2 points and the opportunity cost of SW-7's on the CR90.

Of course, this is also predicated on the ability to use CR90B's, which apparently nobody but me has bothered figuring out. /s

It took me a while but I'm finally decent with torpedo frigates and cr90bs

Good man.

I know how to run CR90Bs.

And yes, the MS-2 with MC30s is on my list of things to try. It just might take a while. Why do I have to have so many ideas I want to try out?

It's the lack of articles I'm sure.... Don't worry I'll return to my complaining ranting self soon enough......

Translation- i only whine and complain when i legitimately have nothing to be upset about.

a CR90B with MS-1 to shut down Interdictor's title and Targeting Scramblers before I shoot.

Probably worth it, even if you don't see TS, it's of good use v ECM

Speaking of ordnance... a question concerning APT v ACM.

Assumption: APT is way more prevalent over (from what I gather in reading) most of the community, not just in my area.

If they were both the same cost, would we see more ACM than APT?

Or, are APT just generally (I guess there are specific times for each, but generally...) a better choice, even if they were at the SAME cost.

Or is my assumption just intrinsically flawed and ACMs are used frequently, just not ever against me so I am crazy?

Speaking of ordnance... a question concerning APT v ACM.

Assumption: APT is way more prevalent over (from what I gather in reading) most of the community, not just in my area.

If they were both the same cost, would we see more ACM than APT?

Or, are APT just generally (I guess there are specific times for each, but generally...) a better choice, even if they were at the SAME cost.

Or is my assumption just intrinsically flawed and ACMs are used frequently, just not ever against me so I am crazy?

I think the 2 point increase is the real reason why ACM suffers... If it were 5 or even 6 points, I think they would be as prevalent as APT, as they help your fleet as a whole much more than APT, who act more as independant operators and sort of force you to trailer the rest of your fleet to them (drilling via XI7, etc)

Or if apt was an exhaust

The main reason I run APT over ACM is the fact that if you double arc you can potentially push two face ups through before even moving to the next phases of damage calculation.

For cheaper.

Direct hull damage to me is better than splash damage, which although it can result in more damage sometimes, is more situational. Direct hull damage, especially with face up crits, is always good.

And then you get TSed and you cry

What about a GSD2 Demo that's kited out to flotilla hunt. do you run RR for more side dice with sensor team to turn the red to a acc. or just use apt and hope you crit roll and then spend another black for acc. or just EL and try and front arc them mostly, 2 reds mean you always get a Acc and don't need to touch your 4 black out front. ship is about 100 points but can still bring the hurt to other ships its size.

GSD2 Demo, Wolf, Sensor, Engine T, then RR/EL/APT

I my self usually always run APT because dealing face up cards past shields can really ruin ppls days. The pay off for me just is higher then extra shield damage or an extra die.

We used to see ACM a lot in the early days before APT but now every one in my area uses APT if there taking a ordinance upgrade.

I have never seen RR used once.

And then you get TSed and you cry

And they're running a dictor...

And it's in range...

And they want to spend it for that attack...

And then it's used for your second attack, and any subsequent attacks.

I'm willing to take the risk.

Except they can interdict it and do it again next activation

Once when I had: VSD1, 2xGSD1, 2xRaider1... all with ACMs, Vader, and got to choose opening salvo. Lots of black splash damage was fun.

However, I still think APT might have been better due to just overwhelming internal damage and shields be damned. Just blow the ships up and who cares about the other shields being drained.

I use mixed APT and ACM in my fleet (usually 50:50). In some situations APT is better than ACM but when mixed they are teryfying. Two raiders (screed and APT and ACM) runned down Imlerial in one round (first strike APT and soften shields on one arc clearing whole shields on another one plus 3 hits on Imperial (two from apt) then ACM score 6 hits plus 3 from ACM.

Personally I will run only ACM but they are too expensive comparing to APT

Returning to the main topic. If I have dilema to run MC30 with APT or RR i will use RR and then took another MC30 with APT (I know, I'm weird)

Here's the thing. Hull damage is great and all, if and only if you don't have to take down the rest of the shields before killing the ship. If at any point you have to take down the rest of the shields before the ship dies, ACM just became the better upgrade.

IFF mentioned it in one of their shows: hull damage is not inherently better than shield damage. I'm not offended that you've done a hull damage to me, as such. It doesn't decrease my attack effectiveness.

So, unless you never have to take down the shields in those adjacent zones--and there are situations where that is the case--the one hull damage from APT is not worth more than the two from ACM, even though it's more focused. So if you're trying to build to, say, one-shot small ships, punch through shields with XI7, or overwhelm redirects with squadrons, APT remains the best choice.

Consider a double arc against a CR90. With both proccing APT and no accuracies, you need to do 8 more damage to kill it. With ACM, you need 6. Structural, Shields Failure, or Projector Misaligned will improve the parity, but you have ~25% chance of fishing those up.

Now, of course this disregards the value of the critical, and Precision Strike, and Dodonna, etc, which is what keeps the choice interesting. But ACM gets dismissed outright way too fast around here for its relative value.

For me its cost. Then it was the fact that fleets HAD more small based ships which means less hull. Therefore a double tap and a ram would nearly destroy any small based ship just off apt and the bump.

Now with wave three & four. Flotillas first, apt and acm are both kinda worthless vs floatillas. If you get past the scatter you probably did enough damage to kill it.

Now the liberty and Dictor, dictor can shed a card with just a token and liberty's 2 shields on the side look real nice for acm.

Now apt does have the chance of getting the the perfect face up card that basically wins you the game. Like pulling the card that doesnt allow you to ready defense tokens vs Avenger. With the likes of comms net, repair crew, or the rise of projection experts. (at least in my neck of the woods) im starting to feel like acm is more useful or maybe the better option.

I guess since I run rebels and xi7s it's more about the APTS for me.