Greetings Forum-Goers, experienced GMs & Players alike,

I'm here to ask a question and plan to keep this forum for all my questions here on out, rather than making a new post every time I think up one. Anyway, to the point:

I am in need of help concerning a player who shows 100% disregard for all NPCs that don't do what he wants, fail to help him or don't have any perceived value to him. I should maybe elaborate a bit more.

During a 1-on-1 session, he was asked to help an old time friend, a member of the Rebellion, to help save some political prisoners from their expected execution. The general jist of the mission was the prisoners were held in a valley and the NPCs with the PC (the old friend, a bothan pathfinder and a rebel recruit) could not enter the nearby town as they were known rebels, unlike the PC who's a mercenary. The old friend gives him a few places to check in town that might help reveal where the prisoners were being held. To help the PC with that (who is a wookiee) the NPC also provided Kashyyyk fruit to use as a cover. The PC then entered the market and proceed to sell the fruit to a slushy maker. He made a deal on when he'll come back (one hours time ingame) and then proceeded to the cantina and offered to help clean dishes there for a hour. He then returned to the slushy maker who handed him a large sum of credits due to successful sales and he requested more. The PC radio's in that he needs more fruit and the NPC does in fact have some left but it'll take roughly two hours for it to arrive (via the hands of the Rebel recruit). He agrees to this and then proceeds to the cantina to work another 2 hours there. What interactions he was with Imperials up to this point always work in his favor (very good rolls) and they don't touch him (even though he's pretty much the only wookiee on the planet). I needed to increase the stakes and remind him of his actual reason for being there, so I then had the Officer in charge of both maintaining the town and the prison (which was meant to be a complete secret) come to town to speak with the town elder. The Pathfinder NPC reports this to the PC, who then proceeds to sell his fruit in a hurried manner. The officer and the elder then proceed to the market where the wookiee is giving the crate of fruit to the slushy maker and the officer interrogates the wookiee via the slushy seller translating. Many more successful dice later, the PC convinces the Officer that he's only the delivery man and the fact he carries a vibro-axe is to deal with the local wild-life when he has to travel on foot to another location. The officer then assigns two stormtroopers to guard the PC until he leaves the planet. The PC then proceeds to kill both stormtroopers in the woods before ordering the rest of the NPCs via-com that they need to move now. They ask if he's discovered the location and he says no. We then fast-forward past the point where the PC does a successful charge at an enemy emplacement and comes to the conclusion that the prison is at the middle of the lake. He then attempts to take one of the Imps' hover craft to cross, only to get shot down by roughly two squads of stormtroopers, along with the rest of his party. The wookiee lost his hard earned money from the slushy maker and the rebel recruit was the only one to die.

At this point, I ended the session and had to call a break as I tried to think of a way to get him out. That is when two of my other players suggested they could use this as a way they first meet each other and help each other. I agree to this and have the wookiee and the bothan pathfinder NPC break out on their own and meet up with the other two PCs. Not going to go through the full adventure of trying to rescue ppl, but will go through the stuff that proved annoying/unfortunate with/for the wookiee.

One of the other PCs, a human, disguised himself as a stormtrooper and took the wookiee to the prisoner transports. As the sergeant tells the PC to stand to the side as he asks some questions to the governour some questions, the wookiee inside the transport tells the political prisoners and the old friend that they have a plan and to follow his lead. He also asks if any of the political prisoners will help and 6 offer, he then tries to coerce the rest to fight (who all happen to be very old or not physically capable). He fails a first time, with a blind old woman saying they aren't able to do so. He tries a second time, rolling a despair, which leads to the sergeant stating that the wookiee will be beheaded by the disguised PC. So the wookiee is pulled out of the transport and put on a simple landspeeder with the sergeant, the other PC and a random stormtrooper. Fast-forward to the plan where the bothan pathfinder detonates explosives at certain points in the city to distract and draw stormtroopers to said points. Unfortunately the wookiee, immediately after the explosives go off, proceeds to remove his cuffs and attacks the stormtrooper sergeant that's nearby, thus all stormtroopers at the square are now focused on him and the prisoners and not going for the sites of the explosives (20-some). The prisoners proceed to fight the stormtroopers, where the wookiee player then complains they shouldn't be fighting but running. As more and more of the prisoners are getting killed in the combat, he also mentions he wants the old blind woman to be one of those to die. She ends up surviving but the rest of the political prisoners (13 of them) all end up dying.

All in all, it was a disaster. I had to stay my hand in many instances of what SHOULD have happened instead of what DID happen. I quickly urged the human PC to get the transport and use it's weapons against the stormtroopers, as they were about to shoot down the wookiee yet again. Granted, some of this is my fault, too many stormtroopers, too much danger, etc.

I know that the reason the PC cared little for NPCs is normal, as they have no real human value because their fictitious, I simply foresee the PC making things worse for the group by acting in such a selfish fashion. We have talked about this but he either refuses to listen or doesn't seem to understand that he's still doing it wrong. Heck, he's a wookiee marauder who is force sensitive and wishes to be a light-side user yet the first power he asked to have was force choke (only have EotE core rulebook anyway so he can't get it) and he tries to coerce everyone who doesn't do what he wants. He really wants to get a lightsaber and talks about how it could be used in every situation, when I've told him specifically that it's not something you'll simply come across and using it openly will cause a lot of trouble. I'm not against him having a lightsaber, but I am unwilling to give it to him due to his actions. That said, I also see him accidently getting everyone in the party in massive trouble if he continues to react and act such a way to everything. He's the kind of guy who tends to charge headfirst into e-webs in order to get things done (as we experienced in Imperial Assault).

I'm not writing this to vent steam off of an annoying player, I writing this because this player is a good friend and I wish for him to get the full fun out of this game as possible but without risking the other players. Any help from both GMs or players on how to help my friend get into the right mindset for the game. Thank you for reading through this mess.

Congrats, your friend is a Munchkin. (lightside force choke, yeah dead giveaway )

"All in all, it was a disaster. I had to stay my hand in many instances of what SHOULD have happened instead of what DID happen."

Don't pull your punches! Actions have consequences. All my old GM said when we were about to do something stupid was: "You sure?" wich loosly translated to: "If you guys are gonna do this your characters are gonna die." Eventually we caught on.

Now It's perfectly ok to play a character who sees other people only in terms of value , ie what they can do for him/her. (Lawfull evil in D&D, Criminal psychosis in CoC) but as a GM it can be a bit galling to see the players abuse your lovingly crafted NPCs in such a way.

My advice would be put him together with a bunch of NPCs who won't just roll over and take his sh*t. I'm talking crimal cartels full of bounty hunters, Hutt crime bossess and the like. I he starts bossing people around, drop him in a rancor pit (Hell, your player might even like that.) or maybe another rebel group with high ranking NPCs who are used to giving order, not taking them.

I hope you and the player(s) work this out.

Just did a search for murder hobos.

These were two that came up:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/177483-trouble-with-murder-hobos/?hl=murder+hobo

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/143601-the-murderhobos-are-back/?hl=murder+hobo#entry1524359

One thing that I noticed is that you shouldn't have allowed the second Coercion check. A single skill check is not a single attempt at something, but all the sum of all the character's attempts. Unless he had Natural Enforcer.

Maybe it's not that hard to deal with. Just talk together. Everyone goes into the game with expectations. They have ideas about what they'd like to do and how things work in the setting. Without talking about it, they probably won't all be exactly the same.

If a player has a radically different set of expectations when compared with the gm's, that player might seem like a problem just because he thought what he was doing was just murderhobo fun and that it was ok.

Just having a discussion so everyone can get on the same page is probably a good idea for any game, I think. Ideally, that's a Session 0 thing but I don't think it's ever too late.

Oh. One more thing:

Blind Lives Matter!!!

(I sure hope I won't get in trouble for that.)

I can't tell if this player is new to RPGs, maybe they think it's a chance to play Grand Theft Auto. This sounds like someone you have to be blunt with. Explain what a murder-hobo is, and that his character is acting like a cross between Charles Manson and Timothy McVeigh. And that even though it's a fantasy world, the fantasy society isn't going to take any of it lightly. He's a Wookiee, easy to find, and at some point the authorities will just shoot to kill. After a couple of warnings, I wouldn't hesitate to kill the character, it doesn't sound like this person is the type to get the message any other way.

Either your player is new to table-top RPGs or he's had very permissive gamemasters in the past. Regardless, a conversation needs to be had about expectations with your game. Specifically that you're running a game that takes place in the SW universe and is meant to emulate the tone of a SW film or TV show.

If he's an adult, he will understand and adjust accordingly. If he isn't, you should (politely) replace him as your game won't be fun for him. Or you.

People can be good friends and suck at playing RPGs.

Have the talk with them and explain they need to act like how people would act and not like he's parked in a chair playing Xbox otherwise RPGs don't work.

We have talked about this but he either refuses to listen or doesn't seem to understand that he's still doing it wrong

Well poopie. There goes my suggestion!

Okay, the next step, now that you've made your position clear is to add weight to those actions. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. The wook throws a recruit under the bus? The Rebellion fails to promote him (but everyone else gets their duty bling). He starts flipping out and treating shopkeepers badly, then suddenly nobody deals with him.

Throw some obligation at him, something like Reputation: Jerk to all NPCs (worded better, of course) and add to it every time he's a jerk to an NPC. When it's him and him alone that carries the group over a hundred obligation, you bet your bottom dollar that he'll start cleaning up his act when he cant spend experience. At the very least the other players will not take kindly to THEM being unable to spend points because of his assholery.

And I know you've tried talking to him - but come out and be blunt. "Your behavior is disruptive to the group and not appropriate to the genre. Continue if you wish, but know that from this point on, there will be in-game consequences to your actions."

A lot can be said about "expectations."

Like "by the Emperor's black bones, what are you doing washing dishes for hours when you can be doing other things that are way more entertaining and fun?" You're playing Star Wars. The character is a Wookiee mercenary working for the Rebel Alliance. Why is he spending time on menial work when he can be having an adventure or something? To be honest, your story sounds like some kind of escapade out of a playthrough of Skyrim. "Powerful warrior of legend, spends time chopping wood and baking pies for petty cash."

From what I can extrapolate from the post, you didn't really have fun playing that session, this may seems to be a recurring problem, and not unique to that session. What about the other players? Have they expressed concern or dissatisfaction? Because, honestly, everything you've written doesn't paint this person as a good friend so much as a self-centered boob. That's an honest observation just from what I know (which isn't much), and I may be wrong.

In general, too, RPGs aren't really a good place for selfish behavior from players*. It's cooperative gaming. Even if there is only the game master and a single player, it's still cooperative, especially in this system, which encourages game masters and players to work together to tell a good story and have fun . This is all the more true if the other players couldn't make it to the session that night, because the one player is, in a limited way, responsible for their PCs.

*This is totally different from playing a self-centered character, but that's good role-playing. This experience is just lunacy.

Sometimes a friend is a friend despite their behavior. Sometimes the history is that strong, and you tolerate in a friend things you wouldn't in someone who wasn't. Still, a friend isn't always a person you want to RPG with. If you are lucky you can make the break in a way that means you can still go to the pub with them. If you don't make the gaming break, a total break might come instead.

Remember, it's a two-way street. Just as you should want to provide fun agency for a player, the player should want to accommodate the kind of table you prepare for and run.

As others stated, some people aren't meant for traditional tabletop RPGs.

Thank you all for the responses. I feel some history is required to show both my RPG experience and my player(s). This is the second table-top RPG I've invested time in, first one being a game I made up at a younger age that was a combination of standard table-top gaming and RPGing, so my actual GMing skill is very 'green'. I do have one other player who has played another RPG but it was 'Call Of Cthulhu', so she has a somewhat high paranoia rate in the game (she keeps this under control in game). The Wookiee player is a younger chap of 16 years (youngest of the group), this being his first ever experience of table-top RPGs.

Continuing with the wookiee player; he has genuine interest in playing and wanting to play well but, as already mentioned above, doesn't seem to get the grasp of things. I prob should have mentioned I was partially hoping for mechanical/narrative ideas on how to latch him into the world, but I will take all advice onboard in order to improve things all around (I'm not exactly a push-over but I am not as strict as I should be). However, his 'always have to win, no matter the cost' attitude and meta-gaming is tiring. A couple of my players have tried meta-gaming the mechanics and I plan to talk with them about that when the chance arises.

What I have learned is that there is a name for this type of player now; 'Murder Hobo'. @Grimmerling : Much appreciated for those links. Thinking up different 'anchors' to try to draw all the PCs to the world as of this moment.

For those wondering how my other players think about this: We haven't exactly started the main campaign, I've been doing a lot of mini-missions to get a good handle of the rules and situations they may put me in. As a result, only 3 of my 6 players have actually played stuff outside the beginner box set. That said, of the other two players that have played, they both have shown a mild annoyance towards these events. This is where nearly 5mins was spent with them mentioning that was a bad idea. This particular event lead me here in hopes I could find a way to mechanically and narratively bind him into the world as the loss of his credits after roughly 1 hour of play was more devastating to the player than the risk of his NPC friends dying (which he, granted, just met outside of narrative). While I do partially blame myself for not seeing this coming, I'm glad it did pop up so I could try to deal with it before the main campaign started.

@Blackbird888: I guess 'good' friend is incorrect usage of the word 'good'. More like 'we hang out occasionally, play games and sometimes discuss things' friend would be more appropriate.

My top post there was written in both annoyance and a want to have an idea to try to make things better, so there was a bit of passion with each key hit.

Anyway, I will use the 'shape up or leave' option as my last bullet. I fully understand it, I'm simply hoping for a few other ideas to be suggested. As they have.

Have a discussion as a group. If you can't get through to your friend, maybe he'll listen to everyone else. If not, well, what do you call a person who ruins the fun of everyone else and doesn't care that he's doing it?

If he's 16 and a first-timer, that makes more sense. Not his fault necessarily that he doesn't understand what's going on, he's playing how every video game is set up to be played (except maybe KOTOR, you can't really get away with that crap if you want to play a lightsider). I've played with my kids at that age (sometimes still play with my son) and had to explain that there's more going on than "kill stuff and take their loot". And sometimes kids just need it said straight: you're interested in hosting a game with a certain kind of tone, his style of play needs to conform to that tone or the game is no fun for anybody, no hard feelings.

We have talked about this but he either refuses to listen or doesn't seem to understand that he's still doing it wrong

Well poopie. There goes my suggestion!

Okay, the next step, now that you've made your position clear is to add weight to those actions. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. The wook throws a recruit under the bus? The Rebellion fails to promote him (but everyone else gets their duty bling). He starts flipping out and treating shopkeepers badly, then suddenly nobody deals with him.

Throw some obligation at him, something like Reputation: Jerk to all NPCs (worded better, of course) and add to it every time he's a jerk to an NPC. When it's him and him alone that carries the group over a hundred obligation, you bet your bottom dollar that he'll start cleaning up his act when he cant spend experience. At the very least the other players will not take kindly to THEM being unable to spend points because of his assholery.

And I know you've tried talking to him - but come out and be blunt. "Your behavior is disruptive to the group and not appropriate to the genre. Continue if you wish, but know that from this point on, there will be in-game consequences to your actions."

Reputation dangerous jerk. Shop keepers start shuttering their shops when he comes there way. Bouncers lock him out of the cantina. His allies leave him hanging.

If he's 16 and a first-timer, that makes more sense. Not his fault necessarily that he doesn't understand what's going on, he's playing how every video game is set up to be played (except maybe KOTOR, you can't really get away with that crap if you want to play a lightsider). I've played with my kids at that age (sometimes still play with my son) and had to explain that there's more going on than "kill stuff and take their loot". And sometimes kids just need it said straight: you're interested in hosting a game with a certain kind of tone, his style of play needs to conform to that tone or the game is no fun for anybody, no hard feelings.

Yeah, this bit of information changes my approach a touch. I remember being 16 once - hell, you barely have normal human interaction down, let alone talking to an imaginary person in a fictional setting!

So yeah, I would straight up tell him "Look, this is suppose to be a more dynamic world than what you get in INSERT FAVORITE VIDEO GAME HERE, where the NPCs solely exist to hand you missions and/or use for target practice. This is like the real world, with consequences to using them for target practice. Sometimes you'll have the upper hand, sometimes you will lose - and both results are fine. All that matters is that we all tell a good story and everyone has fun."

And then use patience with him as he figures out actions and reactions. Dont be afraid, when he is on the cusp of doing something that will crash and burn the mission, to point it out to him - and then give him a do-over if he wants to change his mind.

Eventually you'll stop holding his hand - but for the moment, help him figure things out. And then, if months down the road, he is still a jerk - THEN you drop the hammer.

I'd like to point out that it isn't an issue that he's 16. It's far more an issue that he's a 16 year old BOY!!!!

Death Star

The Force

16 year old boy

that's the scale of potential destructiveness. Weakest on top!!

If he seems sincere in wanting to play the RPG and is trying, but not getting it, have patience. Do some hand-holding at first, like Desslok said. If he wants to do something stupid, or selfish, or completely against what his stated goals for his character are, warn him first. Not to the extent that you're running his character by proxy, but just because he can't tell yet. It takes skill to get into your character's head and be able to think and act as they would. Let him develop that skill. Like any skill he will get better with practice and eventually shouldn't need those reminders often, if at all. And he might learn something that is useful for real life in the process.

On the other hand, if he gives up or doesn't try or just doesn't care, then what I said before stands. Don't let him screw it up for everyone else.

He wants to be a light side Force user, he clearly wants to be the hero, but he's going about it all wrong. So help him do it right.

I'd like to point out that it isn't an issue that he's 16. It's far more an issue that he's a 16 year old BOY!!!!

Death Star

The Force

16 year old boy

that's the scale of potential destructiveness. Weakest on top!!

I gamed with a 16-year-old boy and he did great. In the longest campaign we ran with him (a 3rd Edition D&D game in the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting) he often did awkward things with his character, but his character had a low Charisma stat and was kind of a nerd so it fit. He definitely grew as a gamer over the course of our gameplay.

In our current semi-weekly game (the non-Star Wars one) one of my friend's daughters plays. She had trouble role-playing social stuff with her character but got better. It's usually that social stuff that's the hardest thing to do, to speak as your character and interact as they would rather than describe what the character is doing. For example, acting out the interaction with a guard rather than saying, "I want to convince the guard to let us past, what do I roll?"

I've found that most kids will do just fine if they are really interested in the game and open to learning. I know that in my pre-teen years I would have been clueless as to how to play a character properly, and as a teen I wasn't very good. Now that I've been doing it for 30+ years though I think I have the hang of it. Remember that adults who just get into gaming without any prior experience with it can have the same struggles.

I believe it wasn't that long ago for you Haley that you were the "kid gamer", do you have advice from the other side of the situation?

Oops.

Oops.

Uh-oh. Your secret is out!

Oops.

Uh-oh. Your secret is out!

Wait! WHICH secret?

I'd like to point out that it isn't an issue that he's 16. It's far more an issue that he's a 16 year old BOY!!!!

Death Star

The Force

16 year old boy

that's the scale of potential destructiveness. Weakest on top!!

I gamed with a 16-year-old boy and he did great. In the longest campaign we ran with him (a 3rd Edition D&D game in the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting) he often did awkward things with his character, but his character had a low Charisma stat and was kind of a nerd so it fit. He definitely grew as a gamer over the course of our gameplay.

In our current semi-weekly game (the non-Star Wars one) one of my friend's daughters plays. She had trouble role-playing social stuff with her character but got better. It's usually that social stuff that's the hardest thing to do, to speak as your character and interact as they would rather than describe what the character is doing. For example, acting out the interaction with a guard rather than saying, "I want to convince the guard to let us past, what do I roll?"

I've found that most kids will do just fine if they are really interested in the game and open to learning. I know that in my pre-teen years I would have been clueless as to how to play a character properly, and as a teen I wasn't very good. Now that I've been doing it for 30+ years though I think I have the hang of it. Remember that adults who just get into gaming without any prior experience with it can have the same struggles.

I believe it wasn't that long ago for you Haley that you were the "kid gamer", do you have advice from the other side of the situation?

I have circumstances that are hard to duplicate.

The gm is Dad to two players. He's Dr. Haley's Dad to the rest. He's known all but one from birth. Knew their parents before that! He had very good control of the table because everyone knew better!

And I was his secret weapon when he wanted to get them to switch from Murderhobofinder (or is that Pathmurderhobo?) to Star Wars. The 16 year old boys had started noticing the 14 year old me. Except my brother. We're not Skywalkers...

The gm is Dad to two players. He's Dr. Haley's Dad to the rest. He's known all but one from birth. Knew their parents before that! He had very good control of the table because everyone knew better!

GM dad, ho boy. I'd so abuse that power.

Me: "After this game, go clean your room, son."

Son: "No I don't wanna."

Me: "Whoops! Itseems the Empire has tracked you to this world! Using the hidden locator device in your new lightsaber as a beacon the super star destroyer fires all its turbolaser batteries at your location!"

Son: "Do I get a save?"

Me: "Only if you clean your room son. Otherwise it's death rains down everyone dies."

Son" Sigh! Fine. I wish Darth Vader was my dad ."

Me: "Oi! I heard that!"