Second, grease trap cannot be played after an ettin throw. It specifies "when a hero enters an empty space FROM AN ADJACENT space."

Oh my god, how did I miss that part... Thank you again Zaltyre

• This one is pretty cleared already, but I still smell a rat on the "forced movement" concept, that therm is not related to Descent yet. In the example above, Vancheng brought up a doubt I had months ago. At that time I got a response from Zaltyre, BUT I couldn't find anywhere the concept of forced movement. For me movement is a movement, doesnt matter what the source is(hero or OL). However, confronting the text of cave spider with Grease trap it would be like a cheap move making a hero lose fatigue by sliding on a cave spider side (Moving by a grease trap effect: theorically a sliding figure would stop on a giant web - Moving intentionally: a relentless warrior would exert himself to get throw the other side of a web). So I took the Zaltyre answer at that time as a specific rule for the case.

You can look at this like hero need to clean himself from sticky web after forced slide throught it and thus he suffers 3 fatigue =D

About forced movement I also found some interesting thing, though Im not sure and need confirmation if I right on this one:

if hero is under Dark Char effect or similar to it he is treated like a monster and thus he will not suffer fatigue from Spider Web ability or Demon Lord Aura, but he still can suffer from lava and pit spaces, and OL cant play traps on him during this movement cause traps target only heroes

On the other hand if he is greased along the master spider he suffers fatigue as if he walks by himself and can be a subject to another trap card

In other words descent doesnt need 'forced movement' term as I thought before. You just need to divide 'hero' from 'monster' thats all. Is it correct, what you think?

There is a concept of "voluntary" or not, (see:suffering fatigue while at your stamina or the dark minotaur ability putrid boils.) However, in many cases, voluntary or compulsory doesn't matter- it is the event which matters.

Vancheng, the effect on cave spider web is different than Demon Lord aura. On Web you must move on adjacent spaces of the master spider, while the aura you just need enter the space. So, a grease trap would make a hero take 3 dmg from the Demon lord aura if it slide on its side, no doubt about that. But you're right when you made a point about dark charm not triggering both web and aura.

EDIT: added answers to the topic

Thanks everyone for taking part in discussion, at last I feel really confident about way we play this game =D

(...)

On the other hand if he is greased along the master spider he suffers fatigue as if he walks by himself and can be a subject to another trap card

In other words descent doesnt need 'forced movement' term as I thought before. You just need to divide 'hero' from 'monster' thats all. Is it correct, what you think?

No doubt the term "forced movement" is not a valid term to Descent, however, like Zaltyre said, there is a implicit concept of voluntariness on some card texts that you have to deal with.

On the specific case of the web ability of the master cave spider, I feel the lack of instructions, since the developer reffers to move instead of "enter an empy space". But I also agree it would be redundant a term like 'voluntary moving/willingly moving' etc. That said (and by logics), I am now 100% sure the intent of the ability is the voluntary movement of the hero, but the text leave some gaps for further interpretations, like the one I had on grease trap.

So, my conclusion is: a hero failing on the awareness test of a grease trap is resolving an effect of that OL card, that instances the hero needs to move 3 times in the same direction of the last "empty space" entered (note the inconsistancy of the term move , by the rules a sliding hero is "moving"). He can, however, "enter empty spaces", if that occurs, effects like Demon Lord aura, lava, hazard, pit etc etc, will normally happen.

So, I stand with the idea the concept of "forced movement" is weak, but it truely exists, it just need to be better placed in some cases, like this one above.

1.CAN a summoned stone(be counted as a obstacle) be effected by Massive bulk ?

2.For Fire Breath：Starting with the target space, trace a path of 4 spaces in any direction .....

A Summoned stone is counted as a obstacle space , it seems not to be a available space ?

1. No. The summoned stone is not treated as a hero. Even if it were, the plot card would not consider it one (massive bulk would not work on the reanimate).

2. Fire breath can be traced through the stone. Even though it is an obstacle, it is explicitly vulnerable to attacks.

1.wow , so a conjurer's Image token will prevent massive bulk?

1.wow , so a conjurer's Image token will prevent massive bulk?

Yes

RAW, yes it would. Remember that images are not familiars, though they aren't true heroes either.

2. Fire breath can be traced through the stone. Even though it is an obstacle, it is explicitly vulnerable to attacks.

Just a clarification/nit-pick:

Fire breath can target the stone, can affect the stone, but the original target cannot be behind the stone, because the stone would block line of sight to the target (because it's an obstacle, follow normal rules for line of sight).

1. OL can choose the stone as a target for the attack.

2. Fire Breath is a surge ability that can only be triggered from a melee attack. So either the primary target of the attack is adjacent or not. Adjacent spaces have always line of sight to each other.

3. The fire breath effect itself does not need LOS as the path is determined by counting spaces.