Xwings can't roll without wasting the IA slot

They also can't sloop or take systems/tech

The SF is its own thing

The T-70 can boost (which is better than roll), troll, and take tech and astros.

The sf may be a perfectly balanced and competitive ship (though I don't think it is good enough for that), but it doesn't feel like a TIE Fighter and that's what really bothers me. It's thematically broken for me. I'll end up owning one, but I probably would have ended up with four if it flew like a TIE Fighter.

What must a ship have to be considered a TIE in your mind?

Is it the Evade action? Are TIE Bombers not TIEs?

Is it a 2 dice Primary attack? Are Interceptors, Defenders, and Phantoms not TIEs?

Is it a lack of 5 forward? Because you again question the Bomber and Phantom.

Is it a lack of 1 Hard turn? Because the TIE Advanced and Bomber don't have those but the SF does even if it's red.

Is it a barrel roll? Because the TIE SF has that but the Defender doesn't.

The TIE SF lacks standard TIE characteristics that is true. But it has ones that other TIEs are lacking. The TIE Advanced feels and plays much more like an X Wing than the Special Forces TIE does yet you have cast judgement on this one.

The lack of Evade is sad and 2 agility but I'll take my barrel rolling double tapping aux arc with Sensor Clusters any day.

Edit: I apologize. I was wrong in saying the Defenders have Boost instead of Barrel Roll. I could have sworn I remembered hearing they were given boost because they were considered to rely so much on speed. But they don't have the Evade action. So are all Defenders without the X7 title not considered TIEs? I know the competitive scene considers the X7 the only version to exist but I'd still think it's a TIE even though its only similarity with others is 3 agility and Barrel Roll.

TIE Fighter, we're talking about a TIE Fighter. There are now three ships in the game named TIE Fighter, and one of them isn't like the others. If you're going to be called a TIE Fighter, then you should act like a TIE Fighter. Take the TIE/sf, redo the model and call it a TIE Aggressor and all my complaints go away. This is why I'm not complaining about the TIE Advanced, as that is its very own ship, distinct from the Fighter. It makes sense that it handles differently.

Nobody ever liked or cared about the TIE Aggressor.

Only problem is the SF has a hardeer time than the ARC ito making its aux arc awesome v higher agility

All the more reasons to be excited about Backdraft.

Only problem is the SF has a hardeer time than the ARC ito making its aux arc awesome v higher agility

All the more reasons to be excited about Backdraft.

Exactly

Otherwise, the SF is cheaper and has an easier time using the primary arc thanks to sloop

Seriously kturned with Arcs 3 times ever. Its been a month of playtime

Those things don't joust; the SF can if it wants to

Makes backdraft a great compliment to juke x7 Glaive and Vess ; esp when using FCS

Xwings can't roll without wasting the IA slot

They also can't sloop or take systems/tech

The SF is its own thing

The T-70 can boost (which is better than roll), troll, and take tech and astros.

The sf may be a perfectly balanced and competitive ship (though I don't think it is good enough for that), but it doesn't feel like a TIE Fighter and that's what really bothers me. It's thematically broken for me. I'll end up owning one, but I probably would have ended up with four if it flew like a TIE Fighter.

What must a ship have to be considered a TIE in your mind?

Is it the Evade action? Are TIE Bombers not TIEs?

Is it a 2 dice Primary attack? Are Interceptors, Defenders, and Phantoms not TIEs?

Is it a lack of 5 forward? Because you again question the Bomber and Phantom.

Is it a lack of 1 Hard turn? Because the TIE Advanced and Bomber don't have those but the SF does even if it's red.

Is it a barrel roll? Because the TIE SF has that but the Defender doesn't.

The TIE SF lacks standard TIE characteristics that is true. But it has ones that other TIEs are lacking. The TIE Advanced feels and plays much more like an X Wing than the Special Forces TIE does yet you have cast judgement on this one.

The lack of Evade is sad and 2 agility but I'll take my barrel rolling double tapping aux arc with Sensor Clusters any day.

Edit: I apologize. I was wrong in saying the Defenders have Boost instead of Barrel Roll. I could have sworn I remembered hearing they were given boost because they were considered to rely so much on speed. But they don't have the Evade action. So are all Defenders without the X7 title not considered TIEs? I know the competitive scene considers the X7 the only version to exist but I'd still think it's a TIE even though its only similarity with others is 3 agility and Barrel Roll.

TIE Fighter, we're talking about a TIE Fighter. There are now three ships in the game named TIE Fighter, and one of them isn't like the others. If you're going to be called a TIE Fighter, then you should act like a TIE Fighter. Take the TIE/sf, redo the model and call it a TIE Aggressor and all my complaints go away. This is why I'm not complaining about the TIE Advanced, as that is its very own ship, distinct from the Fighter. It makes sense that it handles differently.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing/products/special-forces-tie-expansion-pack/

According to FFG's product page its just Special Forces TIE.

The word Fighter doesn't mean anything. Its just saying that the TIE/SF is a starfighter. Its a heavy fighter and designed as a heavy starfighter. Tough slow but a great brawler.

It's not a brawler range ones the last place it wants to be with two agility.

Xwings can't roll without wasting the IA slot

They also can't sloop or take systems/tech

The SF is its own thing

The T-70 can boost (which is better than roll), troll, and take tech and astros.

The sf may be a perfectly balanced and competitive ship (though I don't think it is good enough for that), but it doesn't feel like a TIE Fighter and that's what really bothers me. It's thematically broken for me. I'll end up owning one, but I probably would have ended up with four if it flew like a TIE Fighter.

What must a ship have to be considered a TIE in your mind?

Is it the Evade action? Are TIE Bombers not TIEs?

Is it a 2 dice Primary attack? Are Interceptors, Defenders, and Phantoms not TIEs?

Is it a lack of 5 forward? Because you again question the Bomber and Phantom.

Is it a lack of 1 Hard turn? Because the TIE Advanced and Bomber don't have those but the SF does even if it's red.

Is it a barrel roll? Because the TIE SF has that but the Defender doesn't.

The TIE SF lacks standard TIE characteristics that is true. But it has ones that other TIEs are lacking. The TIE Advanced feels and plays much more like an X Wing than the Special Forces TIE does yet you have cast judgement on this one.

The lack of Evade is sad and 2 agility but I'll take my barrel rolling double tapping aux arc with Sensor Clusters any day.

Edit: I apologize. I was wrong in saying the Defenders have Boost instead of Barrel Roll. I could have sworn I remembered hearing they were given boost because they were considered to rely so much on speed. But they don't have the Evade action. So are all Defenders without the X7 title not considered TIEs? I know the competitive scene considers the X7 the only version to exist but I'd still think it's a TIE even though its only similarity with others is 3 agility and Barrel Roll.

TIE Fighter, we're talking about a TIE Fighter. There are now three ships in the game named TIE Fighter, and one of them isn't like the others. If you're going to be called a TIE Fighter, then you should act like a TIE Fighter. Take the TIE/sf, redo the model and call it a TIE Aggressor and all my complaints go away. This is why I'm not complaining about the TIE Advanced, as that is its very own ship, distinct from the Fighter. It makes sense that it handles differently.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing/products/special-forces-tie-expansion-pack/

According to FFG's product page its just Special Forces TIE.

The word Fighter doesn't mean anything. Its just saying that the TIE/SF is a starfighter. Its a heavy fighter and designed as a heavy starfighter. Tough slow but a great brawler.

And according to the FFG product page the TAP is just the Inquisitors TIE (thought to be fair that is all that it is). The ship is clearly a TIE Fighter visually, and is labeled as such on the pilot cards. It's a TIE Fighter, though it doesn't handle like one.

It's fine if you disagree, but I've been very consistent, and imho clear, on my objections to it's design. It doesn't have a TIE Fighter dial, TIE Fighter agility, nor TIE Fighter action bar, it is a TIE Fighter in name only, and the thematic disconnect irritates me, regardless of any mechanical merits it possess as a playing piece.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing/products/special-forces-tie-expansion-pack/

According to FFG's product page its just Special Forces TIE.

And according to its own very pilot card its TIE/SF FIGHTER

Xwings can't roll without wasting the IA slot

They also can't sloop or take systems/tech

The SF is its own thing

The T-70 can boost (which is better than roll), troll, and take tech and astros.

The sf may be a perfectly balanced and competitive ship (though I don't think it is good enough for that), but it doesn't feel like a TIE Fighter and that's what really bothers me. It's thematically broken for me. I'll end up owning one, but I probably would have ended up with four if it flew like a TIE Fighter.

What must a ship have to be considered a TIE in your mind?

Is it the Evade action? Are TIE Bombers not TIEs?

Is it a 2 dice Primary attack? Are Interceptors, Defenders, and Phantoms not TIEs?

Is it a lack of 5 forward? Because you again question the Bomber and Phantom.

Is it a lack of 1 Hard turn? Because the TIE Advanced and Bomber don't have those but the SF does even if it's red.

Is it a barrel roll? Because the TIE SF has that but the Defender doesn't.

The TIE SF lacks standard TIE characteristics that is true. But it has ones that other TIEs are lacking. The TIE Advanced feels and plays much more like an X Wing than the Special Forces TIE does yet you have cast judgement on this one.

The lack of Evade is sad and 2 agility but I'll take my barrel rolling double tapping aux arc with Sensor Clusters any day.

Edit: I apologize. I was wrong in saying the Defenders have Boost instead of Barrel Roll. I could have sworn I remembered hearing they were given boost because they were considered to rely so much on speed. But they don't have the Evade action. So are all Defenders without the X7 title not considered TIEs? I know the competitive scene considers the X7 the only version to exist but I'd still think it's a TIE even though its only similarity with others is 3 agility and Barrel Roll.

TIE Fighter, we're talking about a TIE Fighter. There are now three ships in the game named TIE Fighter, and one of them isn't like the others. If you're going to be called a TIE Fighter, then you should act like a TIE Fighter. Take the TIE/sf, redo the model and call it a TIE Aggressor and all my complaints go away. This is why I'm not complaining about the TIE Advanced, as that is its very own ship, distinct from the Fighter. It makes sense that it handles differently.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing/products/special-forces-tie-expansion-pack/

According to FFG's product page its just Special Forces TIE.

The word Fighter doesn't mean anything. Its just saying that the TIE/SF is a starfighter. Its a heavy fighter and designed as a heavy starfighter. Tough slow but a great brawler.

And according to the FFG product page the TAP is just the Inquisitors TIE (thought to be fair that is all that it is). The ship is clearly a TIE Fighter visually, and is labeled as such on the pilot cards. It's a TIE Fighter, though it doesn't handle like one.

It's fine if you disagree, but I've been very consistent, and imho clear, on my objections to it's design. It doesn't have a TIE Fighter dial, TIE Fighter agility, nor TIE Fighter action bar, it is a TIE Fighter in name only, and the thematic disconnect irritates me, regardless of any mechanical merits it possess as a playing piece.

It doesn't fly like a regular tie fighter. I could try to justify it through any number of lore explanations, but I won't. The real and only reason for this is because of game balance. If this thing flew like an FO no one would flt anything else ever. Don't underestimate this ship for its dial. Don't write it off just because it isn't insanely durable. It is (currently) the most aggresive star fighter in the Imperial arsenal. It is built to reward you for getting into combat, and keeping at least one arc on a target. I can not yet speak for the generic pilots, haven't put them on the table yet. Backdraft is reliable. Extremely reliable with outmaneuver (this is the premier ship for that ept so far). Quickdraw is MURDEROUS. Rage and baffle make for the hottest burning flame, which of course burns out quickly but does so much damage to everything in its threat radius.

so i got 3 games with a trip SF list today.

2 Omegas w/ Outmaneuver, FCS, Title, and Cluster

Backdraft with Predator, Adv Sensors, Title, Cluster, and Mk2 engines

I gotta say, these ships are sneakers. They lack any real punch that such an expensive ship normally has, but they make up for it with tricks.

I never went a round without a shot, and often i dodged my opponents arc in favor of rocketing away and firing my rear arc. Problem is the moment he caught me i usually took hefty damage.

Personally, i think Clusters are a waste, that or i just had insanely bad luck. I never used them. In all 3 games i always rolled double blanks w/o a focus, 1 focus 1 blank, 1 focus 1 evade, or double evade, Not ONCE did i roll blanks or 1evade 1blank with a focus stashed. Anxiously await Pattern Analyzer, since that would also solve the few issues i had. Red moves are very commonly the best move you can do to avoid arcs and get a shot yourself, usually out the rear, but then its unmodded unless you had a TL already. Another reason im not a fan of clusters so far.

I also noticed that my usual go-to strat with identical ships (the two generics) is flying them in a formation off the bat is a BAD idea. They cant both avoid arcs, one of them wont be able to turn enough, so i think in the future i'll keep them more apart.

I went 1-2, with my third game being the win after i realized the best way to fly them is elusive and doing chip damage. They cant focus fire very well since theyre busy trying to avoid getting shot at. The victory i had was a slightly longer than average game where i spent most of the game constantly at range2/3 and rolling out of arcs or doing a red move to dodge someone's attempt at a block, as a result yeah i didnt kill anything very fast but i took almost no damage.

Im reminded of xwings. Theyre not bad, not at all, theyre just insanely difficult to fly and unforgiving.

You have no idea what kind of **** Rebels have to put up with.

Right, it would appear that you have no idea what kind of utter **** Imperials had to put up with during the reign of Fat Han/Dash.

That is, pure ****, throughout 6 waves & 2 Expansion packs.

From February 28, 2013 to October 1st, 2015.

So yeah- no, I really don't feel sorry for Rebel players right now; though I would vastly prefer better balance in the game overall. The TIE/sf included, obviously.

Oh yeah, reign of Fat Han/Dash, sure. RAC/Whisper or Fel wasn't the third pillar of BS during those days. And surely the first thing everyone complained about were those op XXBB squads, not the mindless spam of TIE Fighters. You really need to take a step back from your faction allegiance, it doesn't allow you to see things clearly.

And they nerfed the phantom and the fatties kept on dominating for a good long while after.

And they nerfed the phantom and the fatties kept on dominating for a good long while after.

True, RAC/Fel became the more popular variant.

And they nerfed the phantom and the fatties kept on dominating for a good long while after.

True, RAC/Fel became the more popular variant.

Yeah, but that variant wasn't as popular or good as RAC/Whisper, which really very few people played, imo.

And they nerfed the phantom and the fatties kept on dominating for a good long while after.

True, RAC/Fel became the more popular variant.

Yeah, but that variant wasn't as popular or good as RAC/Whisper, which really very few people played, imo.

Regionaly varied. I've seen enough of it for several lifetimes. In some ways RAC/Fel is even worse since you have the points to go all in on the stupid point fortress idea. Fat Decimators were just as popular and just as obnoxious as Fat rebels, the empire has not been any better or "had to suffer so badly".

So could wired see play with the new tie?

So could wired see play with the new tie?

Oh man, with Wired and Pattern Analyzers, I realized that you are actually tougher on red move turns because you can get Evade as an action and get re-rolls on eyeballs. Then I realized that FOs are the only ship so far that can run this, and their tech is spoken for.

So could wired see play with the new tie?

Oh man, with Wired and Pattern Analyzers, I realized that you are actually tougher on red move turns because you can get Evade as an action and get re-rolls on eyeballs. Then I realized that FOs are the only ship so far that can run this, and their tech is spoken for.

Yeah, I don't know that Wired is going to find a home on them. Maybe with primed thrusters? I don't find I need their red moves that much in general, and I usually sloop when I don't think my opponent will be getting a shot.

Played few games with

Quickdraw (Rage+Baffle+title) 31p

Vader (Predator, title, Adv. targeting computer, EU) 37p

Yorr (Palpatine + collision detector) 32p

Total of 100p

There is room for initiative bids, but I didn't feel I needed it as of our meta doesn't play that much of PS9 aces and if they want to have me move first, I'll shoot at you with Quickdraw while your ace is without tokens.

Anyway,

First game was against 2x ARC170 and A-Wing. Range 1 Quickdraw double tapped Norra and did 7 damage total and Vader finished her off. Few rounds after Shara went down.

Second game was against Ndru with cluster missiles, Fenn Rau with title and fearlessness and Kath with tailgunner.

First combat round I rage baffled and did serious damage to Kath . Second combat round Quickdraw didn't do anything to Kath (First shot), but I shot from rear arc to Fenn and did 2 damage because he didn't have any tokens.

Sure you get only like 1-2 uses of Rage+Baffle combo and you hurt yourself doing it but seriously it is bonkers to shoot twice. First in activation phase where enemy PS9+ aces dont have any tokens to defend and then second attack in combat phase. And you can do it again next round if you have shields left. (Corran can't, but its different ship and different story... and more expensive)

With Yorr taking the second stress from Quickdraw his dial is as open as it can be to take advantage of his dual firing arcs.

It is glass cannon type of a ship, but I like it. It surely flies different than regular Tie Fighter or Tie/FO. It's refreshing to do 1 straight with small imperial ship once in a while. Still I can't say if Quickdraw is capable of winning tournaments as of now, but it is fun to fly We can only hope that Imperial get like Imperial only Tech slots with Regen or something.. It surely would help Quickdraw.

Have to test Backdraft sometime too.

I didn't even think about how Quickdraw gets to shoot at tokenless Soontir pretty often. Thats rather nasty!

I didn't even think about how Quickdraw gets to shoot at tokenless Soontir pretty often. Thats rather nasty!

Or a cloak less focus less whisper

The omega specialists and zeta specialists seem best with accuracy correctors. If you use those, you don't need any other offensive boost. So then what EPT do you use for omega specialists?

Those named pilots are unbelievably good! I think that statwise, these ships are a little weak, so the pilots have to make up for that. Both seem best with marksmanship and fire-control system, because they get several attacks per round. I think Dengar's gonna hate getting attacked by quickdraw 3 times in one round!

And in response to the original post, I bought 2 right away. Ill see if I need 4 based on how good they are (haven't play tested yet!)

You really need to take a step back from your faction allegiance, it doesn't allow you to see things clearly.

You're in no position to judge though.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing/products/special-forces-tie-expansion-pack/

According to FFG's product page its just Special Forces TIE.

And according to its own very pilot card its TIE/SF FIGHTER

So does this mean "Youngsters" ability will work with a SF?

Yes they work with youngster just like the tie fo do