Is Outmanoeuvre a worthwhile ept to use on these ships? I figure if you can get behind the enemy by using a long straight and flying past them then firing out the rear arc, using the title you can fire four shots while they get one less green dice.

2 tie punishers I bought, two! Why?

They were obviously crap:(

I bought four and am happy with them! Totally worth it for that 12 Proton Bombs game I did once!

(the one left over is repainted and used with FO ships as one of the characters who do have their strengths when I really want to convince someone to not keep on playing a list)

Get one /sf, worst comes to worst it wil be fixed via ace pack additional material and it gives you the opportunity to try out the named pilots who both have nice different flavours.

OK I have just received mine! Quite happy with the model though the red is not as vivid as I would had wanted.. so repaint time I think!!

I am going to my wargaming club tonight for some x-wing and I am just thinking of what kind of build to use for the first game with it.

I am thinking backdraft with accuracy correcter and nothing else, just so he doesn't become too expensive.

Edit: I am thinking an EPT of Wired may be a nice cheap choice, considering the amount of reds on his dial, he may spend a lot of time stressed out.

I am thinking backdraft with accuracy correcter and nothing else, just so he doesn't become too expensive.

Backdraft's ability doesn't work with Accuracy Corrector.

No?

I would had thought it was you roll two shots as normal.. AC changes them to two hits then you add your Crit on the total as per backdrafts rules?

I am thinking backdraft with accuracy correcter and nothing else, just so he doesn't become too expensive.

Backdraft's ability doesn't work with Accuracy Corrector.

No because Accuracy Corrector doesn't let to modify your dice, and adding Backdraft's [crit] is a modification.

The dial should not be a concern on the sf, it is far more than enough on backdraft

Be concerned about durability, necause these guys SHATTER if you dont exploit that aux arc and position yourself to shoot while not getting shot

That seems a bit contradictory, isnt?

You are telling me to not worry about the dial, but instead to focus on arcdodging, reposition, and avoiding shots... with a dial full of reds...

Man, all the DOA of the TIE/sf is making me desire even more to play with it.

The Empire doesn't need defeatists.

BD with AC isn't necessarily bad, by the way. AC still works as normal out the front, and it sets a hard floor on your damage of two hits out the rear which is no bad thing. FCS is probably better though.

I don't think the /sf is DOA. I mean Quickdraw dies shortly AFTER arrival, but she does so GLORIOUSLY.

I'm thinking of running the pair of these I picked up this weekend for a kit. I haven't had a chance to play for several weeks, so I'm thinking I'll just take a fun experiment list with QD and BD. AC on Backdraft is probably the way I'm going. I know (as above) his ability doesn't count with it, but I'd rather have the insurance to guarantee 2 hits forward and back, than one crit back, then treat him rolling well as a bonus.

Obviously i don't think is dead on arrival. I've just read it too much on the forums.

I mostly miss it doesn't have an Evade Action.

BD with AC isn't necessarily bad, by the way. AC still works as normal out the front, and it sets a hard floor on your damage of two hits out the rear which is no bad thing. FCS is probably better though.

I don't think the /sf is DOA. I mean Quickdraw dies shortly AFTER arrival, but she does so GLORIOUSLY.

^THIS.

(applause)

Just one for me - cos I'm a completist...

... and a stickler - all my TFA ships are quarantined away from the rest - I'll only ever fly pure-strain FO and Resistance lists...

... and even then, only rarely.

Man, all the DOA of the TIE/sf is making me desire even more to play with it.

The Empire doesn't need defeatists.

We Arnt defeatist we have the defender tearing apart anything in its path, empire is doing fine despite the fact we keep getting duds like the punisher.

But this is the sf it's supposed to really move yet it's a slug, the dial doesn't reflect the movie version even a little, no mag pulse launcher and crap defence it's perfectly reasonable to be disappointed with this poormans T-70.

I think designers have been a little conservative with the SF...

No evade action so you cant Juke+FCS+Comms Relay on a 3d primary.

As i only play casual with limited players and limited time (babies aren't good for free time) it's not important to me the competitive factor of a ship.

In fact, i had lot of fun in my Punisher games (and won) so i can't give you reasons for the SF being a good or a bad ship.

But the named pilots have good abilities, and i would like to fly a small base with aux arc (my experiences with the imperial Firespray are awful)

And every ship, every effort counts for the emperor...

Man, all the DOA of the TIE/sf is making me desire even more to play with it.

The Empire doesn't need defeatists.

We Arnt defeatist we have the defender tearing apart anything in its path, empire is doing fine despite the fact we keep getting duds like the punisher.

But this is the sf it's supposed to really move yet it's a slug, the dial doesn't reflect the movie version even a little, no mag pulse launcher and crap defence it's perfectly reasonable to be disappointed with this poormans T-70.

I'll ask again about the dial. What were you hoping for? It's only missing a 5 straight, and yes it has two hard reds. Did you want more green? Were you expecting an interceptor like dial?

The green is fine. It's the red turns. They are completely un-TIE-fighter-like. I was expecting a dial like the bomber or TIE Advanced (with s-loops to keep in line with the FO)

I just fly mine with advanced sensors and MKII engines so I can take an action before the crappy reds get in the way and have more options for clearing the stress the following turn. So mine all come it at +4 points.

No because Accuracy Corrector doesn't let to modify your dice, and adding Backdraft's [crit] is a modification.

The dial should not be a concern on the sf, it is far more than enough on backdraft

Be concerned about durability, necause these guys SHATTER if you dont exploit that aux arc and position yourself to shoot while not getting shot

That seems a bit contradictory, isnt?

You are telling me to not worry about the dial, but instead to focus on arcdodging, reposition, and avoiding shots... with a dial full of reds...

Read it again

I literally said speed 1/2 straight/banks have had no issue being useful all thanks to the aux arc

Aux arc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dial limitations

The green is fine. It's the red turns. They are completely un-TIE-fighter-like. I was expecting a dial like the bomber or TIE Advanced (with s-loops to keep in line with the FO)

I just fly mine with advanced sensors and MKII engines so I can take an action before the crappy reds get in the way and have more options for clearing the stress the following turn. So mine all come it at +4 points.

But the dial is incredibly similar to the Bomber, it has more stuff and the colors of 2 and 3 turns switched. The Bomber has just one set of white turns, too!

Is Outmanoeuvre a worthwhile ept to use on these ships? I figure if you can get behind the enemy by using a long straight and flying past them then firing out the rear arc, using the title you can fire four shots while they get one less green dice.

Good idea! I do not know if Outmanoeuvre activates on aux arcs..

Pg16 of the 4.21 FAQ: Outmaneuver

"All firing arcs (including special, auxiliary, and primary firing arcs) are included for this ability. "

But the dial is incredibly similar to the Bomber, it has more stuff and the colors of 2 and 3 turns switched. The Bomber has just one set of white turns, too!

Indeed, and that's one part of the problem.

FFG gave it a bomber/shuttle-like dial & agility when it is a fighter. TIE FIGHTER / Special Forces.

I understand they trying to 'innovate' and 'make things different' from time to time with the ships they release, but perhaps they should consider that also, from time to time, there's no need to do so.

If a ship is a fighter, make it a fighter, not a bomber.... And if a ship is a large transport, make it a large transport, not an interceptor.

The Bombers lack of 1 Turns and 2 Turns being Red is much more restrictive than the SF TIEs 1 and 3 Red Turns. Then the Sloops open up many more possibilities for setting up future attacks and traps.

In addition the Aux Arc really frees up the capability of the ship because everything is not hinging upon you getting the enemy in your front arc.

When I've flown the TIE Advanced it's been similar. The dial felt so extremely restrictive and it was all just to set up a 2 dice Primary that forced me to get a target in the front arc. Even with the System slot on the Advanced I hate flying that ship.

But with a similar dial the TIE SF is so much more flexible. It has a 3 dice fore shot but I have no problem taking a 2 dice rear shot when I'm getting out of my opponents attack plan. I've even got a target in both of my arcs many times. It is likely because I really do not play against people who use netlists though so the games are more spread out.

I really don't have a significant problem with the SF TIE's durability. Again I don't play against netlista so I don't play against the Jumpmaster ordnance spam. But with Sensor Clusters their evasion is very comparable to the Advanced but the SF has more health.

With a Focus the Advanced has a 32% chance of getting 1 or 0 Evades while the SF has 33% of getting 1 Evade but can't get 0 with Sensor Cluster. The SF has a 67% chance of getting 2 Evades which is great against any Primary and Ordnance only being one use.

Yes the SF costs more but it also has more health, a 3 Dice primary and Aux arc, and the Sloops.

I bought 2 and so far have really enjoyed flying the ship. As for my builds I'm tending to run them lean on the zetas so FCS and title, which comes in at a nice price point of 25. I did run a list with Whisper, Backdraft, and 1 omega specialist that did well just in casual play. The main concern I've seen with the omega pilot is somewhat cheaply loading them out and not having them come in in the low 30's where there tends to be better stuff available.

I've been extremely tired of the whinging of people saying that Poe says the ship really moves so the SF therefore should have the best dial in the game.

He says that line the MOMENT he leaves the hangar. He hasn't experienced any actual flight characteristics except for the acceleration.

So yes the TIE SF probably gets up to speed a lot quicker than the T70 but it isn't as well suited to high speed combat maneuvers.

Maybe the ship is actually capable of really high speed maneuvers but the training the pilots gets encourages them to not max out the ships capabilities. They have to work as a team with the gunner not getting a full combat view so the sharp turns means it's harder for them to fight effectively.

There are other instances where combat training encourages soldiers to exercise restraint on their equipment in order to actually be more effective. Take the US Army for example. The M16 was easily capable of firing fully automatic, but soldiers since the Vietnam War have been trained to only fire in 3 round bursts. It allows them to retain control and accuracy with the rifle and keeps there magazines from emptying to quickly.

So you should stop whinging that the SF TIE doesn't have a super fast dial just because Poe said it really moves. He was either only talking about it's acceleration because he hadn't experienced any more of it, or the TIE SF pilots actively show restraint for them to work better as a team or in order to prolong the fighting time they have avoiding draining their Energy reserves until the battle is over so their wings can recharge... Or he was just surprised the TIE moved at all. Maybe he was expecting it to fall apart the moment he turned on the ignition.

Regardless of the reason. The Maneuver Dial is perfectly capable with the TIE SF. It's a more flexible dial than either the TIE Bomber or Advanced, and the ship itself is the most flexible and open that the Empire has. It's Aux Arc and Attack value means that its not nearly as restricted in how it can effectively add to the engagement.

Poe was more than likely referring to the acceleration, which has nothing to do with top speed.

Most living creatures can accelerate to their top speed faaaar faster than any machine, but the machine's top speed is so superior it doesnt matter.

This game has no ruling to show acceleration of a ship, and i dont know how they would either unless they imposed a Speed Dial like armada has....which would be kinda impossible to add atm lol.

TIE/SF dial is the kind of dial i really wish more ships had. Rather than flatout deny access to various maneuvers, theyre red. I understand not having a 5FWD since thats usually reserved for the speedster ships, but it bugs me when ships are often given 1 Hard turn and that Hard turn isnt even red on its own. If it can do a turn at one speed without issue, surely it can speed up or slow down slightly and put some stress on the ship.

Thats part of the issue i have with the Kwing, though the SLAM somewhat negates it. Only 1 hardturn, period, not even a red one. So if that hard turn might hit something, you're boned.

Man, all the DOA of the TIE/sf is making me desire even more to play with it.

The Empire doesn't need defeatists.

We Arnt defeatist we have the defender tearing apart anything in its path, empire is doing fine despite the fact we keep getting duds like the punisher.

But this is the sf it's supposed to really move yet it's a slug, the dial doesn't reflect the movie version even a little, no mag pulse launcher and crap defence it's perfectly reasonable to be disappointed with this poormans T-70.

I'll ask again about the dial. What were you hoping for? It's only missing a 5 straight, and yes it has two hard reds. Did you want more green? Were you expecting an interceptor like dial?

Given its the special forces ship I expected it to be at least on par with the fo.