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I just don't get why FFG insists on releasing more TIE Fighter variants, when there's a bunch of other cool TIE and non-TIE ships. How many H-shaped variants and paint jobs do we need?

If this was some barrel scrape EU fug-ugly "TIE variant" I could get behind this comment, but truly - you can't expect a TIE that appears in a blockbuster Star Wars movie to not appear in X-Wing.

Any blame for boring variants and paint jobs in this case needs to be solely laid at the feet of Lucasfilm, not FFG.

I'm buying just 1 this week.

I did fly a fun Quickdraw, Backdraft, Zeta specialist and Wampa list the day after the dial was spoiled in the Vassal League and almost beat a practiced Mynock Special. With practice it could be a fun 2nd tier list.

But still, just 1. I buy a ship every time I go to a tournament at the FLGS, we'll see which one from Wave 9 I'll double up first. It should be most though, judging from past experience.

I have plastic that just sits there on the shelve.

And what about 3? or 4? [/size]

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Or should I just stick to buy one expansion now and wait 3 years for the inevitable “First Order Veterans” box that will make the Tie/SF worth it.

If you have been playing this game for more than a few waves, you like everyone else, has a ton of ships just sitting on shelves. Heck, I have a whole Rebel fleet I have never played. But one day I will, or might.

... Or should I just stick to buy one expansion now and wait 3 years for the inevitable “First Order Veterans” box that will make the Tie/SF worth it?

This is my option.

Right out of the box is a waste of points. Later, maybe with the upcoming mods/techs it MAY deserve a second look.

I thought they learned a valuable lesson with the Defender... Obviously I was mistaken.

I can't agree with the idea that this ship is going to be useless. Sure it's squishier than a defender, but a defender doesn't have a rear arc. Sure it isn't super maneuverable, but it isn't supposed to be an arc-dodger (at least not in our typical understanding of what an arc-dodger is). There's nothing this ship does better than any other ship the empire has, except it has a unique position as the only rear arc small base we have. The key to making the ship work will be in maximizing that aspect, which is why backdraft is getting hyped. I'm sure that with enough play testing someone will find some really viable builds outside of the obvious choices. (that's the hope anyway)

Super awesome thematic squad

Backdraft (vi and fcs)
Quickdraw (baffled rage)
Kylo (expert handling, primed thrusters; fcs)


Most banking on the hilarity of a barrel rolling shuttle that dont care about stress sub 4 tokens

Now to twiddle thumbs till wave ten

some synergies, though (Backdraft with Kyle condition, coordinate with baffled rage, Kylo shuttle 4 dice with QD's disgusting offense etc.)

Another ship shaped like an H? I'll get 0, and wait for an Assault Gunboat. Because it's cool and isn't shaped like an H.

Haha. Good luck. They made the quadjumper before the gunboat.

I can't agree with the idea that this ship is going to be useless. Sure it's squishier than a defender, but a defender doesn't have a rear arc. Sure it isn't super maneuverable, but it isn't supposed to be an arc-dodger (at least not in our typical understanding of what an arc-dodger is). There's nothing this ship does better than any other ship the empire has, except it has a unique position as the only rear arc small base we have. The key to making the ship work will be in maximizing that aspect, which is why backdraft is getting hyped. I'm sure that with enough play testing someone will find some really viable builds outside of the obvious choices. (that's the hope anyway)

I've tested Backdraft.

He is a beast.

I think what turns people away from the SF is the rather disappointing title. Yeah two attacks is good, but they have to be 2 dice, and lined up to where you have a ship in your front and rear arc, and outside of Epic or swarms I can't really see that happening.

It should have just been something like "When attacking out your auxiliary firing arc you may reroll 1 blank/focus result."

Two, mostly to try this out:

Omega Specialist (25)

Predator (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Special Ops Training (0)

Omega Specialist (25)

Predator (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Special Ops Training (0)

Countess Ryad (34)

Push the Limit (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Total: 100

Should be fun, I've always liked SJ even before it became cool, back when people said it was trash. And if that doesn't work, at the base generic with the title, they still fit into a decent amount of lists and provide enough utility for my flying to make them worth while and enjoyable.

Depends on the Ace your fighting. Most stuff, yeah (and yeah, X7's mostly wont be that fast without VI, Maarek, Rexler, maybe), but if common Aces like Soontir, Whisper, etc. Depends on Initiative or if they decided to VI.

Will say its not quite as flexable as Snapshot on a low PS boat.

Enhanced Scopes can work too, but then you need to find another way to cause yourself damage rather than the baffle (asteroid collision?).

Doubt it. They're not the FO missile carrier any more than the T70 is the Resistance torp boat.

Backdraft (vi and fcs)

Quickdraw (baffled rage)

Kylo (expert handling, primed thrusters; fcs)

Most banking on the hilarity of a barrel rolling shuttle that dont care about stress sub 4 tokens

I don't think this works. Primed Thrusters lets you perform barrel roll actions, but Expert Handling is a different action that happens to contain a free barrel roll action - I'm not sure you're allowed to trigger Expert Handling when stressed. R7-T1 is much the same.

I think what turns people away from the SF is the rather disappointing title. Yeah two attacks is good, but they have to be 2 dice, and lined up to where you have a ship in your front and rear arc, and outside of Epic or swarms I can't really see that happening.

That said, if the front arc can be at range 1, backdraft can essentially put out a 3-dice front and rear - much more useful.

Doubt it. They're not the FO missile carrier any more than the T70 is the Resistance torp boat.

Quick Draw's ability isn't going to get too many uses, so you could use it to get a faintly ridiculous 4 attacks off in a turn instead of the default rage/baffle:

• Quickdraw - Special Forces Training, Snap Shot, Fire Control System, Cluster Missiles, Guidance Chips

Bonus points if you can use this against dengar, and watch the two pilots blow one another to kingdom come in a ridiculous hail of retaliatiory out-of-sequence fire.

I've always liked SJ even before it became cool, back when people said it was trash.

I can't agree with the idea that this ship is going to be useless. Sure it's squishier than a defender, but a defender doesn't have a rear arc. Sure it isn't super maneuverable, but it isn't supposed to be an arc-dodger (at least not in our typical understanding of what an arc-dodger is). There's nothing this ship does better than any other ship the empire has, except it has a unique position as the only rear arc small base we have. The key to making the ship work will be in maximizing that aspect, which is why backdraft is getting hyped. I'm sure that with enough play testing someone will find some really viable builds outside of the obvious choices. (that's the hope anyway)

The defenders k turn negates the rear arc, the k turn gives it an evade with an action and three attack round of shooting.

The sf isn't a ship you fear in the endgame.

Tie/SF's how many are you buying? and what are the best lists?

0, and most lists; that doesn't have a TIE/SF in them.

Pending any further reveals and upcoming upgrades, the ship is DOA here.

I planned on buying one, as usual...

But suddenly i realized i have at least 2 of every TIE (except her bulbous majesty, the Punisher) and maybe i will like to fly the 2 named pilots...

I just have to avoid the wrath of my wife.

But i only play casual, and i'm a sucker for everything that has "TIE" in the name...

OK well I have just gone against my instincts and bought one. Sure it will not be overly competitive but then again I don't play in tournaments nor subscribe to the win at all costs meta. I think one is probably the maxium most people will want in their squad as it is not overly cost effective.

I also bought the arc, which may be the prompt to start magnetising the fleet as it is such a massive ship, it is going to be tough when things get up close and personal.

I'll buy one as I want at least one of every Imperial ship. Couldn't give a **** if people feel it's not competitive, it might it be but I bet it's fun to fly and that's way more important to me.

I originally had a pre-order in for two, and one of everything else. The more I think about this wave and it's potential, the less I think it has anything I really care about. I've already cancelled my Shadowcaster and Protectorate, and I'm almost certainly going to do the same with the ARC and at least one, if not both, /sf. I really like the idea of Quickdraw, and I'm drawn to the idea of that double-arc in general, but no matter what list I'm looking at, nothing has convinced me I can't get the same or more utility from Defenders, Interceptors, or even /fos for the same price.

The defender k-turn is a trap (unless your name is countess ryad). It doesn't invalidate the rear arc, after you k-turn you're stuck with your forward arc still. The /sf can sloop and still have more options of where it wants to shoot. The /sf can bring fcs and soon pattern analyzer and effectively copy the defender on action efficiency only cheaper and more offensive (yes that does mean it's less defensive than the x7 defender). The ship is going to be more aggresive than the defender and that looks to be by design. Hopefully it proves aggresive enough to blow away your enemies before they can you.

I originally had a pre-order in for two, and one of everything else. The more I think about this wave and it's potential, the less I think it has anything I really care about. I've already cancelled my Shadowcaster and Protectorate, and I'm almost certainly going to do the same with the ARC and at least one, if not both, /sf. I really like the idea of Quickdraw, and I'm drawn to the idea of that double-arc in general, but no matter what list I'm looking at, nothing has convinced me I can't get the same or more utility from Defenders, Interceptors, or even /fos for the same price.

I think it comes down to points breakdown. The Imperials have a ton of great choices in the mid-20s to mid-30s point range, game winning choices. They also have really strong stuff in the mid-high teens. There hasn't been a build identified, to my knowledge, that is really looking for a contributor in the low 20s, and 30ish points of SF doesnt really slot into 30ish points of other stuff (contrasting to how two x7 Defenders nicely take the place of two aces supported by a PalpShuttle). So I think there needs to be an entirely new Imperial build with a ship that doesn't fight like other Imperials ships. Again, there's probably something there, but I don't know what it is.

This is my issue with them. Not so much that they can't fit into a current list, but that I can't really see any reason to build a list with them in mind, rather than another option in the 25-35 point bracket they'd fall into. That's seriously hot territory in the Imperial line up, as you're straight into Defender and Interceptor ace territory at the high end, and /fo ace territory on the low end. I'm having a hard time putting a list down on paper that looks particularly threatening with an /sf in the mix, even without looking at the PalpAces archetype.

Don't get me wrong, I was pretty interested in this ship when it was announced, and continued to be up until recently enough. I'll still pick one up and play about with it to see if it can be used how I want, but as time wears on, I'm finding it harder to be excited about it.

Having very little experience with Imperials I may be off base but I think the problem lots of people are making is "How do I plug this TIE variant into the list I like to fly?" While that is a valid question, it may be leading the list designer down the wrong path. I think the /sf flies so differently with its low speed maneuvers and lots of red that you really have to design your list around the /sf, not the other way around. The successful Special Forces pilot will completely embrace what makes their ship different than everything else and design with it in mind.

In tournament play I picture a /sf squad in the middle of a scrum flying slow and having arcs galore. You would still have to concentrate guns on target but facing is a little less important. You could also fly them (with Title of course) as 3 die primary ships that fly slow and turn hard to keep things in front of them.

In mission play I can easily see Backdraft covering a squad's retreat as they try to escape after achieving their objective.

In short, the TIE/sf flies and fights differently than most other Imperial ships. The list builder that can exploit that difference will be successful.

Two, mostly to try this out:

Omega Specialist (25)

Predator (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Special Ops Training (0)

Omega Specialist (25)

Predator (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Special Ops Training (0)

Countess Ryad (34)

Push the Limit (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Total: 100

Should be fun, I've always liked SJ even before it became cool, back when people said it was trash. And if that doesn't work, at the base generic with the title, they still fit into a decent amount of lists and provide enough utility for my flying to make them worth while and enjoyable.

I think while Ryad with PTL is a solid choice, Juke would synergize with those Sensor Jammers.

The defender k-turn is a trap (unless your name is countess ryad). It doesn't invalidate the rear arc, after you k-turn you're stuck with your forward arc still. The /sf can sloop and still have more options of where it wants to shoot. The /sf can bring fcs and soon pattern analyzer and effectively copy the defender on action efficiency only cheaper and more offensive (yes that does mean it's less defensive than the x7 defender). The ship is going to be more aggresive than the defender and that looks to be by design. Hopefully it proves aggresive enough to blow away your enemies before they can you.

It's a trap if it's all you do but anyone with a clue knows when a one bank will wrong foot someone or the proper moment to break off.

Piling on points is the wrong move as it makes it more of a priority and it can not stand up to focused fire, two agility may as well be zero once your focus tokens spent.

Same goes for b-wings adding cannons and crew is plain stupidity even keyan farlander you at most add an ept to stress him like stay on target.

Some ships benefit from investing points heavily, but those ships have far superior defence to the sf.

I don't believe 4 points is a heavy investment. I could be wrong though. Just at a basic generic level, a 23 point sf with title, fcs, and pattern analyzer is still a point cheaper than a X7 Delta. I hold no delusions that it will stay on the table as long as that same delta, but it has the abillity put out more damage.

I'm currently flying two. Double attack with 4-5 dices and FCS is brutal.

"Quickdraw" (29)
Draw Their Fire (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Special Ops Training (0)

"Backdraft" (27)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Advanced Sensors (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Special Ops Training (0)

"Youngster" (15)
Expose (4)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 99

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