Considering other defensive upgrades, is there any place for Sensor Jammer? It's a bunch of points, and takes up a spot for FCS, but for a ship that has abilities an a dial that work being in the middle of everything, Jammer really punishes the opponent that wants to force damage through. You could also take Opportunist to double down on that idea, but some other EP is probably better. You could throw in some supporting ships with Juke, maybe as well.

I've thought about it but it's really hard to justify the cost... At that point you're fighting against just taking an X7 Defender.

Considering other defensive upgrades, is there any place for Sensor Jammer? It's a bunch of points, and takes up a spot for FCS, but for a ship that has abilities an a dial that work being in the middle of everything, Jammer really punishes the opponent that wants to force damage through. You could also take Opportunist to double down on that idea, but some other EP is probably better. You could throw in some supporting ships with Juke, maybe as well.

I've thought about it but it's really hard to justify the cost... At that point you're fighting against just taking an X7 Defender.

An Omega Specialist with Sensor Jammer is 29, pretty close to 28 from the Delta, but I think it's enough different to consider. It has higher PS and an open EPT slot and the rear arc. The Delta is better against single attacks, the Sensor Jammer has a greater effect when more ships are shooting at it.

The thing about defenders though is while theyre more survivable because 3agi and free evade, they rarely dodge an arc due to their straight-line mentality. Broll with them isnt that great, because a head-on attack broll isnt going to do much. SF on the other hand can get some really weird angles with that aux arc, so while theyre less durable they avoid the shot entirely a lot more.

Most of my games backdraft spent his time just dancing around rocks and laughing as nobody could quite get arc on him, or if they did it was through said rock/range 3. I havnt tried jammers yet, but its one of the sensors i contemplated putting on them. On squirmy ships like a starviper jammer can be a royal pain because you almost always have to boost/broll to even get a shot on them, meaning no focus to counter the jammer. SFs are in the same boat.

Plus, the defender youre competing in points for has to be moving 3+ to get that evade. Dunno about you but ive had several times where i REALLY didnt wanna move that fast and my 4k was blocked or had an obstacle in the way. SF in 7 games ive had only a couple of times where i had an unfavorable move because they move so uniquely (well one could say the arcs behave the same)

I hate to draw too much attention away from the topic at hand, but could someone explain the value of sensor clusters to me? I don't really understand it at all. It's like an almost strictly worse version of autothrusters that I could only really see useable on ships with at least 3 defense dice. And yet you've all got it on your lists like it's almost a no-brainer.

How are you all able to justify 2-4 points on it? What am I missing here?

It makes a Focus for defense much more reliable for ships without access to the Evade action or Autothrusters. If you roll no eyeballs, you can use your Focus to convert a blank. It's hardly a no-brainer, as the discussion of the last couple of pages of this thread illustrates.

I guess my takeaway from the discussion was that it didn't really seem worth it so I was surprised that so many lists included 1-2 in them. Especially when we've got the far superior Pattern Analyzer on it's way (I know, different functions and all, but it wants that slot and those points so I'd been putting sensor clusters in the DOA category, like weapons guidance).

Perhaps I just never have that many points leftover after playing around with SFs so when I see 1-2 points all I can think of is MK2s or perhaps a more expensive EPT as needed.

eh....

so about PA, I don't think you'll see it very often on the SF

PTL isn't really super great without evades/with FCS pulling full offensive mods anyway and you're not slooping super often

honestly think you're better off just shaving points and leaving the tech slot blank

the biggest winner might be primed thrusters, for the occasional clutch roll and with stress becomes a massive thing (already kinda is with braylen r3-a2 gunner neutering the hell out of everything that isn't dengaroo, also asajj etc.) that helps the SF deal with stress in addition to FCS

i played an igC with sensor jammer in a team tourney and did well. You force a miss or the opponent to spend a focus, so it makes a ship a bit slippery.

probably already mentioned this list before, but I didn't realize how perfect it has before today

Backdraft (VI, fcs)

Vess (juke, x7)

Glaive (juke, x7)

"I'm walking on sunshine"

"Woah-woah-oah"

"AND DON'T IT FEEL GOOD!?!?!?!?"

Glaive is clearly an explosion, but, Vessery was the first thing I thought of when I saw Backdraft.

Also, it's not legal yet, but how about A Score to Settle on Quickdraw? Like Predator, you'd have to rely on pulling red moves or getting shot to trigger her ability, but your attacks are fully modified against a specific target and it's cheap.

Glaive is clearly an explosion, but, Vessery was the first thing I thought of when I saw Backdraft.

Also, it's not legal yet, but how about A Score to Settle on Quickdraw? Like Predator, you'd have to rely on pulling red moves or getting shot to trigger her ability, but your attacks are fully modified against a specific target and it's cheap.

A Score To Settle is one of those upgrades that's going to be hyper-situational if it works the way I think it does - I'm assuming it's mutual eye>crit for you and the target. Amazing for some ships, terrible for others. QD I suspect falls more towards the terrible end because she tends to get focus fired so hard and tends to want to take targets of opportunity because getting up close and personal with a particular target isn't easy with that dial and lack of post-dial movement.

Maybe, but with her high PS, you could deliver a tremendous amount of damage to a target pretty quickly. This can save you some counterfeiters by killing a target.

Glaive is clearly an explosion, but, Vessery was the first thing I thought of when I saw Backdraft.

Also, it's not legal yet, but how about A Score to Settle on Quickdraw? Like Predator, you'd have to rely on pulling red moves or getting shot to trigger her ability, but your attacks are fully modified against a specific target and it's cheap.

A Score To Settle is one of those upgrades that's going to be hyper-situational if it works the way I think it does - I'm assuming it's mutual eye>crit for you and the target. Amazing for some ships, terrible for others. QD I suspect falls more towards the terrible end because she tends to get focus fired so hard and tends to want to take targets of opportunity because getting up close and personal with a particular target isn't easy with that dial and lack of post-dial movement.

You are assuming it goes both ways?!? Like Greedo?

That’s not how I read the card:

"During setup, before the "Place Forces" step, select 1 enemy ship and assign the 'A Debt To Pay' Condition card to it.

When attacking a ship that has the 'A Debt To Pay' Condition card, you may change 1 focus result to a critical hit result."

http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/A_Score_To_Settle

Rather, I read it as every ship that attacks the ship with "A Debt To pay" gets to roll eye->crit.

The point, I think is that we don't know what "a debt to pay" does. 0 points is not much for a powerful ability, so it's reasonable to guess there's a drawback.

Glaive is clearly an explosion, but, Vessery was the first thing I thought of when I saw Backdraft.

Also, it's not legal yet, but how about A Score to Settle on Quickdraw? Like Predator, you'd have to rely on pulling red moves or getting shot to trigger her ability, but your attacks are fully modified against a specific target and it's cheap.

A Score To Settle is one of those upgrades that's going to be hyper-situational if it works the way I think it does - I'm assuming it's mutual eye>crit for you and the target. Amazing for some ships, terrible for others. QD I suspect falls more towards the terrible end because she tends to get focus fired so hard and tends to want to take targets of opportunity because getting up close and personal with a particular target isn't easy with that dial and lack of post-dial movement.

You are assuming it goes both ways?!? Like Greedo?

That’s not how I read the card:

"During setup, before the "Place Forces" step, select 1 enemy ship and assign the 'A Debt To Pay' Condition card to it.

When attacking a ship that has the 'A Debt To Pay' Condition card, you may change 1 focus result to a critical hit result."

http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/A_Score_To_Settle

Rather, I read it as every ship that attacks the ship with "A Debt To pay" gets to roll eye->crit.

Yes, and we don't know what "A debit to pay" card will do.

I assume it has a large drawback (0 points) for the A Score to Settle carrier.

Glaive is clearly an explosion, but, Vessery was the first thing I thought of when I saw Backdraft.

Also, it's not legal yet, but how about A Score to Settle on Quickdraw? Like Predator, you'd have to rely on pulling red moves or getting shot to trigger her ability, but your attacks are fully modified against a specific target and it's cheap.

A Score To Settle is one of those upgrades that's going to be hyper-situational if it works the way I think it does - I'm assuming it's mutual eye>crit for you and the target. Amazing for some ships, terrible for others. QD I suspect falls more towards the terrible end because she tends to get focus fired so hard and tends to want to take targets of opportunity because getting up close and personal with a particular target isn't easy with that dial and lack of post-dial movement.

You are assuming it goes both ways?!? Like Greedo?

That’s not how I read the card:

"During setup, before the "Place Forces" step, select 1 enemy ship and assign the 'A Debt To Pay' Condition card to it.

When attacking a ship that has the 'A Debt To Pay' Condition card, you may change 1 focus result to a critical hit result."

http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/A_Score_To_Settle

Rather, I read it as every ship that attacks the ship with "A Debt To pay" gets to roll eye->crit.

"You" always refers opnly to the ship with the upgrade or skill concerned, never to the player.

If A Debt To Pay isn't a penalty to the ship with A Score To Settle somehow, then the upgrade is way too cheap at 0 points given what Kallus does for 2...

Kallus does work on defense as well, but yeah, 0 is not okay if there's no drawback.

Glaive is clearly an explosion, but, Vessery was the first thing I thought of when I saw Backdraft.

Also, it's not legal yet, but how about A Score to Settle on Quickdraw? Like Predator, you'd have to rely on pulling red moves or getting shot to trigger her ability, but your attacks are fully modified against a specific target and it's cheap.

A Score To Settle is one of those upgrades that's going to be hyper-situational if it works the way I think it does - I'm assuming it's mutual eye>crit for you and the target. Amazing for some ships, terrible for others. QD I suspect falls more towards the terrible end because she tends to get focus fired so hard and tends to want to take targets of opportunity because getting up close and personal with a particular target isn't easy with that dial and lack of post-dial movement.

You are assuming it goes both ways?!? Like Greedo?

That’s not how I read the card:

"During setup, before the "Place Forces" step, select 1 enemy ship and assign the 'A Debt To Pay' Condition card to it.

When attacking a ship that has the 'A Debt To Pay' Condition card, you may change 1 focus result to a critical hit result."

http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/A_Score_To_Settle

Rather, I read it as every ship that attacks the ship with "A Debt To pay" gets to roll eye->crit.

"You" always refers opnly to the ship with the upgrade or skill concerned, never to the player.

If A Debt To Pay isn't a penalty to the ship with A Score To Settle somehow, then the upgrade is way too cheap at 0 points given what Kallus does for 2...

I know "you" referes to the ship, in this case the ship(s) attacking the ship that has the 'A Dept To Pay' Condition card. The Ept gives you the option to select a ship during setup and assign the 'A Debt To Pay' Condition card to it.

Undercosted yes, but not an argument.

For an attack-only Kallus on a single ship I'd expect to pay a point. Maaaaaaybe 0 if that's literally all it does. But giving a crit is super powerful when it comes alongside a wave that includes Kylo Ren, and that's absolutely not all it does, we know that. So I can only think that A Debt To Pay will be a benefit to the ship assigned it, otherwise it sounds really unbalanced.

I bought 3

Playing a list with 2 SFs and a Punisher.. undefeated so far, but not up against serious tourney lists..

and tonight flew 3 of them for 2 wins.. also not against tourney lists

I'm finding I like them and they seem to tank fairly well. I also like Accuracy Corrector on them for that "Take Two" if the dice don't show up to the game. I'm having fun with Adrenaline Rush on them as well for that S-loop surprise Focus or barrel roll

So Far they are fun, and I'm liking them

For an attack-only Kallus on a single ship I'd expect to pay a point. Maaaaaaybe 0 if that's literally all it does. But giving a crit is super powerful when it comes alongside a wave that includes Kylo Ren, and that's absolutely not all it does, we know that. So I can only think that A Debt To Pay will be a benefit to the ship assigned it, otherwise it sounds really unbalanced.

I completely agree about the unbalance, especially as the way I see, it it is every ship that attacks the ship with "A Debt To Pay" Condition card assigned that gains this advantage, not only the ship with this Ept. But it is hard to read it differently, but perhaps there is a part of the Condition card that is yet to be spoiled. Or perhaps you have to assign the card when your ship is placed on the board meaning you can only assign it to something of lower or equal pilot-skill? We will find out.

i always felt Kallus was overpriced since it was literally only 1 ship and you dont change targets when that ship dies. Mostly because its a Crew slot for that effect.

One guy loves having kallus on his echo and i just dont understand why he does that. I get FAR more work out of her with tactician or recon spec than i do kallus. Mostly because kallus kinda forces you to target one ship or you waste an upgrade, tac/recon lets me avoid telegraphing what im doing.

For an attack-only Kallus on a single ship I'd expect to pay a point. Maaaaaaybe 0 if that's literally all it does. But giving a crit is super powerful when it comes alongside a wave that includes Kylo Ren, and that's absolutely not all it does, we know that. So I can only think that A Debt To Pay will be a benefit to the ship assigned it, otherwise it sounds really unbalanced.

I completely agree about the unbalance, especially as the way I see, it it is every ship that attacks the ship with "A Debt To Pay" Condition card assigned that gains this advantage, not only the ship with this Ept. But it is hard to read it differently, but perhaps there is a part of the Condition card that is yet to be spoiled. Or perhaps you have to assign the card when your ship is placed on the board meaning you can only assign it to something of lower or equal pilot-skill? We will find out.

there is a condition yet to be spoiled

see we know the wording of "A score to Settle"

but what of the condition, "a debt to pay"?

we have no idea what it does, only that "a score to settle" converts focus --> crit against the ship with that condition

for all we know, it could buff the enemy

at a glance, though, the wording just seems redundant to the ept

note the FOCUS result and "Upgrade" wording

i always felt Kallus was overpriced since it was literally only 1 ship and you dont change targets when that ship dies. Mostly because its a Crew slot for that effect.

One guy loves having kallus on his echo and i just dont understand why he does that. I get FAR more work out of her with tactician or recon spec than i do kallus. Mostly because kallus kinda forces you to target one ship or you waste an upgrade, tac/recon lets me avoid telegraphing what im doing.

Kallus's value is one that changes quite a bit based on the meta and squad types he's facing. He's very good against lists with very few ships and that's not a surprise as it seems like he was probably in development around Wave 5, not to mention his ability is also incredibly thematic (at least as much so as can be made without making him useless). He's also useful on a ship that has very few threats in the meta and can use both sides of the dice, which is why he really found a home in the Mynock Special on Whisper.

Mightve mentioned it already (large thread) but the UPS in wave 10 significantly increases the SF's value

Coordinate gives you tons of shenanigans with baffled rage quickdraw and backseat was MADE for Kylo ren crew (ps 9 vi and autocrit to trigger the condition; blinded pilot makes the SF's poor defenses utterly irrelevant)

What's good is you can't just combine ren crew and emperor crew due to upgrade slots (which is good because the SF is not as good a choice with the emperor, as it doesn't have the ability/thrusters/evade to abuse Palpatine with)

Ren (pilot) is far more restrictive and costs 42 points with just emperor which doesn't even leave room for pto thruster title inq + relay juke omega L (can fit VI fcs backdraft with omega L though...)

You can kylo and emperor on a sec I, which is horribly expensive and really lacking in punch unless you go for the Cheri synergy and in which case you only get 1 ace

Unless you put kylo on another shuttle or in whisper (poor girl gonna lose an ACTION to use kylo )

So your special forces now have a special niche

Even better, we have seen much of Vader (no thrusters and "only" 2 actions to soont's effective 3). But hey, ps 9 with ATC crit. Kylo would be more than happy to work next to his grandpappy

So you may see lists involving VI fcs backdraft and crackshot ATC EU Vader, leaving 32 points for a ship to bear kylo on (which will probably be the UPS as it contributes the most offense to stack with your similarly punchy ps 9s)

Really looking forward to getting my hands on the condition card. Giving a face up damage card through Shields is going to be delicious.

Sigh... well looks like from what I have read here the tie/sf still is not much of a ship.

What a shame considering they designed the ship at the same time as the very excellent arc and fang fighter.

I hope in the future they bring out a card just for the tie/sf that removes most of the reds on the dial. Ion engines MK3 or something..

for all we know, it could buff the enemy

That's what I'm suggesting it does, yes.

My suspicion is that the 'A Debt To Pay' condition says 'When attacking the ship with the 'A Score To Settle' upgrade, you may change an [eye] to a [kaboom].'