Helm of the Stormcaller in Thing in the Depths

By sappidus, in Rules questions & answers

Hey, this is courtesy of the CotR Discord... LordRorthorn there asked a question of Caleb which got an answer that I thought deserved recording for posterity. I reproduce the exchange here with LordRorthorn's blessing.

Hi I have a rules question regarding placing progress on locations and quests that was raised during a game of Thing In The Depths. The first quest stage cannot have any progress placed on it until Helm Of The Stormcaller is in the victory display. If Helm Of THe Stormcaller is the active location, and enough progress is made to clear this location, can excess progress be placed on the quest? Basically, is the active location placed in the victory display as soon as all the progress is placed on it, allowing excess progress to go to the quest, or is all progress placed as one action and then the location is explored/added to the victory display.

And the official response:

The way the core rules describe placing progress from questing successfully is: “Note that if there is an active location, progress tokens are place don that location until it is explored, and the remainder are then placed on the current quest.” Once Helm of the Stormcaller leaves play, you are no longer prevented from placing the remaining progress on stage 1B

While I think that this is how most of us have been playing the quest, there's something odd about this that I can't quite put my finger on. The discussion here -- https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/199848-elf-stone-long-defeat/-- was about a somewhat different issue of timing re: locations vs. quest cards, but I have a hard time holding both of the rulings in my head at once. Perhaps others have a better framework understanding than I.

Right, so the active location leaves play before progress is placed on the quest but any effects of the location leaving play will be resolved after the progress is placed on the quest.

I find that quite weird.

Right, so the active location leaves play before progress is placed on the quest but any effects of the location leaving play will be resolved after the progress is placed on the quest.

I find that quite weird.

I get why it works like it does but ****.....

So you place progress all at once not one progress at a time so you place the progress on both the active location and quest at the "same time" and because if at anytime you fulfill the criteria to advance from one quest stage to the next you do so immediately before resolving any other effects or ending the phase you must resolve any effects from arriving at the next quest stage before resolving any "when explored" effects on the active location. Purely from a rules standpoint it makes perfect sense but both thematically and mechanically this makes little sense. We are told that progress has to go on an active location first so it makes sense to assume that the active location is explored or finished before the current quest is and you would therefore resolve any effects from exploring that location before resolving effects for exploring the current quest stage.

Right, so the active location leaves play before progress is placed on the quest but any effects of the location leaving play will be resolved after the progress is placed on the quest.

I find that quite weird.

Right, so the active location leaves play before progress is placed on the quest but any effects of the location leaving play will be resolved after the progress is placed on the quest.

I find that quite weird.

I get why it works like it does but ****.....

So you place progress all at once not one progress at a time so you place the progress on both the active location and quest at the "same time" and because if at anytime you fulfill the criteria to advance from one quest stage to the next you do so immediately before resolving any other effects or ending the phase you must resolve any effects from arriving at the next quest stage before resolving any "when explored" effects on the active location. Purely from a rules standpoint it makes perfect sense but both thematically and mechanically this makes little sense. We are told that progress has to go on an active location first so it makes sense to assume that the active location is explored or finished before the current quest is and you would therefore resolve any effects from exploring that location before resolving effects for exploring the current quest stage.

rather than one at a time, it's just two separate actions (or three if there are two active locations, etc.). i don't think each progress is a separate action because there are effects that are 'if any amount of progress is placed....', and if it were one at a time, these effects would trigger multiple times after questing

Right, so the active location leaves play before progress is placed on the quest but any effects of the location leaving play will be resolved after the progress is placed on the quest.

I find that quite weird.

What about effects that trigger as a result of progress being placed on the location? Does this happen before quest advancement?