Question for you all:

If I had several bombers with single black dice in range of (let's say) 2 Bomber Command Centers, how many of you would object if I rolled 2 black dice for each bomber, stating that if I didn't get a hit/crit I would reroll with my last attempt.....always? As long as I stick to that rule the order of the other dice shouldn't matter, and would speed up my squadron phase. (Of course I would only use one die result).

I've felt "funny" when people have used this in games with me in 40k, even though it is perfectly legit (I think). Would you accept this behaviour in a tournament?

I'm considering it because it would make the squadron phase a bit faster....valuable time in a squadron heavy game. But I don't want to do that if folks will give me the evil eye....

its a way of speeding up the game but really not saving that much time

Die Rolling in any way other than what is conventional and spelled out directly in the rules, I have found, is the single biggest way to end up with injuries from an argument.

NEVER take a Shortcut while Rolling. NEVER.

Always be Explicit, be Open, be Honest, and NEVER do anything to the Rolling that would be counter to the "One Die for Die" methodology.

To do anything else is to invite trouble.

Die Rolling in any way other than what is conventional and spelled out directly in the rules, I have found, is the single biggest way to end up with injuries from an argument.

NEVER take a Shortcut while Rolling. NEVER.

Always be Explicit, be Open, be Honest, and NEVER do anything to the Rolling that would be counter to the "One Die for Die" methodology.

To do anything else is to invite trouble.

What is the "One Die for Die" methodology?

And have there really been that big of issues over rolling and re-rolling and the like?

"The Rules say to roll one Die. So I pick up and roll one die. If I need to reroll said Die, then I pick up said Die and Re Roll it."

None of this "I roll two dice for the one die I'm supposed to be doing and take any double hits because that's what I'm after..."

And yes.

Yes indeed.

I am sure if you do a search for DiceGate, you will pick up one or two of my posts regarding that very touchy subject a few years back.

But it boils down to this:

The Dice are the one thing we cannot control when it comes to our forces, strategy and playstyle. The very fact that people are superstitious enough to not let people touch their dice shows that, yes, dice rolling is an exceptionally touchy subject for some.

Don't mess with it.

Just do what the rules say.

Huh I didn't even consider that as an option for rolling and re-rolling dice. It seems so out of the ordinary to me as an avid board gamer, that I wouldn't even consider it.

And as I say this, I realize I have a buddy who does almost that exact thing in other games. I never made much of it but I realize how it could be a touchy subject for some. Also playing casual games at my house is significantly different than in a highly competitive setting.

Question for you all:

If I had several bombers with single black dice in range of (let's say) 2 Bomber Command Centers, how many of you would object if I rolled 2 black dice for each bomber, stating that if I didn't get a hit/crit I would reroll with my last attempt.....always? As long as I stick to that rule the order of the other dice shouldn't matter, and would speed up my squadron phase. (Of course I would only use one die result).

I've felt "funny" when people have used this in games with me in 40k, even though it is perfectly legit (I think). Would you accept this behaviour in a tournament?

I'm considering it because it would make the squadron phase a bit faster....valuable time in a squadron heavy game. But I don't want to do that if folks will give me the evil eye....

It could work on vassal, but on the table...how do you figure out which dice is last?

Say if you roll 3 black on account of 2 BCC, and they come up HIT HIT BLANK...what does that equal? Hit or miss?

Question for you all:

If I had several bombers with single black dice in range of (let's say) 2 Bomber Command Centers, how many of you would object if I rolled 2 black dice for each bomber, stating that if I didn't get a hit/crit I would reroll with my last attempt.....always? As long as I stick to that rule the order of the other dice shouldn't matter, and would speed up my squadron phase. (Of course I would only use one die result).

I've felt "funny" when people have used this in games with me in 40k, even though it is perfectly legit (I think). Would you accept this behaviour in a tournament?

I'm considering it because it would make the squadron phase a bit faster....valuable time in a squadron heavy game. But I don't want to do that if folks will give me the evil eye....

It could work on vassal, but on the table...how do you figure out which dice is last?

Say if you roll 3 black on account of 2 BCC, and they come up HIT HIT BLANK...what does that equal? Hit or miss?

Just reroll. It takes virtually no extra tine at all, even with several bombers and multiple BCC's.

Question for you all:

If I had several bombers with single black dice in range of (let's say) 2 Bomber Command Centers, how many of you would object if I rolled 2 black dice for each bomber, stating that if I didn't get a hit/crit I would reroll with my last attempt.....always? As long as I stick to that rule the order of the other dice shouldn't matter, and would speed up my squadron phase. (Of course I would only use one die result).

I've felt "funny" when people have used this in games with me in 40k, even though it is perfectly legit (I think). Would you accept this behaviour in a tournament?

I'm considering it because it would make the squadron phase a bit faster....valuable time in a squadron heavy game. But I don't want to do that if folks will give me the evil eye....

It could work on vassal, but on the table...how do you figure out which dice is last?

Say if you roll 3 black on account of 2 BCC, and they come up HIT HIT BLANK...what does that equal? Hit or miss?

Yeah, this is the problem with this approach. As an MC30 fan, I can tell you first hand how often 12 black dice (front/side double arc with OE and CF) come up with zero crits... Rolling 2 in no way guarantees the hit crit, and then if you have a hit and a blank, you're stuck with deciding which came first.

Just reroll. It takes virtually no extra tine at all, even with several bombers and multiple BCC's.

What he said. Aside from the touchiness of some players, it is not logical to roll two or more dice here because it does not produce the exact same effect as what the upgrade(s) intended. This is similar to DTT and the reason why it is stronger than a CF token but weaker than a CF dial. BCC is really a CF token for each squadron it affects as it attacks ships

Consider and compare if all permutations and combinations of each method is the same before doing it.

Question for you all:

If I had several bombers with single black dice in range of (let's say) 2 Bomber Command Centers, how many of you would object if I rolled 2 black dice for each bomber, stating that if I didn't get a hit/crit I would reroll with my last attempt.....always? As long as I stick to that rule the order of the other dice shouldn't matter, and would speed up my squadron phase. (Of course I would only use one die result).

I've felt "funny" when people have used this in games with me in 40k, even though it is perfectly legit (I think). Would you accept this behaviour in a tournament?

I'm considering it because it would make the squadron phase a bit faster....valuable time in a squadron heavy game. But I don't want to do that if folks will give me the evil eye....

It could work on vassal, but on the table...how do you figure out which dice is last?

Say if you roll 3 black on account of 2 BCC, and they come up HIT HIT BLANK...what does that equal? Hit or miss?

Yeah, this is the problem with this approach. As an MC30 fan, I can tell you first hand how often 12 black dice (front/side double arc with OE and CF) come up with zero crits... Rolling 2 in no way guarantees the hit crit, and then if you have a hit and a blank, you're stuck with deciding which came first.

Just reroll. It takes virtually no extra tine at all, even with several bombers and multiple BCC's.

Well, the idea being if I don't roll a hit/crit, I save the last reroll as a single die reroll, so none of the preceding rolls mattered. If I did roll a hit/crit with my multiple-at-once dice, I would have stopped so it doesn't matter which one rolled it.

I understand about the perception of doing something "iffy", which is why I asked the question (and got the reply I expected). But I had to ask....because 6 Y-wings with 3 BCC's means rolling up to 24 dice each turn....one by one. Let along the 3 X-wings that accompany them (another 12 rolls). That does take a bit of time.

But message received, I'll keep rolling singly.

You have to roll them individually, If you attack with a Y wing and roll a single hit you have to weigh up whether that 1 point of damage is acceptable or try and fish for the hit-crit. If you rolled two dice and one was a hit and one was a blank how would you know which one you rolled first?

A problem can occur if rolling 2 black dice to represent a single die with one reroll. If you got a hit and a blank then we have no way of knowing if the "Last dice rolled" was the hit or the miss. So which one do you keep.

Well, the idea (which I'm clearly having trouble explaining) is that you always hold one extra reroll "in reserve". So if you have 3 rerolls, you only roll 3 dice at once (your initial roll, plus 2 rerolls). If you don't have a hit/crit result, you'll always use your last "reserve" reroll - so the order of the previous rolls doesn't matter. If you got a hit/crit in your initial batch, you would have stopped so the order of your rolls doesn't matter.

I do understand that adhering to this sequence of events is the only way this would work....

The problem I have with this, is the act of picking up, rolling, and looking at a result for one die takes about 3 seconds.

The time you save by rolling multiple is probably mitigated by the time you spend explaining yourself to your opponent, getting their consent, and parsing multiple results.

You could say, "but explaining the system and looking at two dice takes no time at all!", to which I'd say well whats the point of doing the multiple roll thing anyway.

The game length can be 2 hours, if you want to cut it down there are much better places to save time.

As long as when you roll a blank and a single hit you take the blank but I'd prefer to roll normal.

Really keen on saving time? Star wars dice app

No, seriously, use it WITH your dice. Have presets for your squadrons. And if for example you have a horde of Y-wings doing a bombing run just switch to your app and shake it off with one-die rerolls. It is much faster IMO. Unless you immediately pick up your dice and roll right away again, app is almost always faster(most people will wanna shake the real die in their hand to increase randomness/luck)

Well, the idea (which I'm clearly having trouble explaining) is that you always hold one extra reroll "in reserve". So if you have 3 rerolls, you only roll 3 dice at once (your initial roll, plus 2 rerolls). If you don't have a hit/crit result, you'll always use your last "reserve" reroll - so the order of the previous rolls doesn't matter. If you got a hit/crit in your initial batch, you would have stopped so the order of your rolls doesn't matter.

I do understand that adhering to this sequence of events is the only way this would work....

Ah, so if you have n rolls, you roll n-1 dice.

If you get a HIT/CRIT, great.

Otherwise you roll the last dice.

Got it.

I don't think you'd get very many opponents to accept this, even if it's statistically sound

Games finished mate, what are you prattling on about.

Well, the idea (which I'm clearly having trouble explaining) is that you always hold one extra reroll "in reserve". So if you have 3 rerolls, you only roll 3 dice at once (your initial roll, plus 2 rerolls). If you don't have a hit/crit result, you'll always use your last "reserve" reroll - so the order of the previous rolls doesn't matter. If you got a hit/crit in your initial batch, you would have stopped so the order of your rolls doesn't matter.

I do understand that adhering to this sequence of events is the only way this would work....

I'm not following. What if you rolled a hit and a crit - which one is the original roll (the one you'd have kept)?

Well, the idea (which I'm clearly having trouble explaining) is that you always hold one extra reroll "in reserve". So if you have 3 rerolls, you only roll 3 dice at once (your initial roll, plus 2 rerolls). If you don't have a hit/crit result, you'll always use your last "reserve" reroll - so the order of the previous rolls doesn't matter. If you got a hit/crit in your initial batch, you would have stopped so the order of your rolls doesn't matter.

I do understand that adhering to this sequence of events is the only way this would work....

I'm not following. What if you rolled a hit and a crit - which one is the original roll (the one you'd have kept)?

Neither. He's going to reroll it again with his final reroll ability because it wasn't a Hit/Crit.

Thougjt they said BCC don't stack

Thougjt they said BCC don't stack

Who said this?

Thougjt they said BCC don't stack

Who said this?

A guy who talked to a Guy who talks to the designers at the FFG Center.

- As opposed to a Guy who talked to a designer at GenCon, who said the opposite (that they do).

So, either way, nothing has officially said it yet.

Well, the idea (which I'm clearly having trouble explaining) is that you always hold one extra reroll "in reserve". So if you have 3 rerolls, you only roll 3 dice at once (your initial roll, plus 2 rerolls). If you don't have a hit/crit result, you'll always use your last "reserve" reroll - so the order of the previous rolls doesn't matter. If you got a hit/crit in your initial batch, you would have stopped so the order of your rolls doesn't matter.

I do understand that adhering to this sequence of events is the only way this would work....

I'm not following. What if you rolled a hit and a crit - which one is the original roll (the one you'd have kept)?

Neither. He's going to reroll it again with his final reroll ability because it wasn't a Hit/Crit.

Huh? I said what if he rolls both - which one did he roll first and re-roll? Do you mean he only keeps it if it's both on one die?

Well black dice only have blank, hit, and hit/crit faces. I reroll anything but a hit/crit.