Sure, it looks cool on paper. It's still a 32 point ship that will die instantly to Torp Scouts or Dengar (unless you're throwing 26 more points away on Biggs to die instantly), and I don't see how he ever shoots down Palp Aces with only PS7 and no way to crack through green dice + tokens + palps. He'll also struggle to wound X7s. So, godspeed, little Nien, but he seems like minimally 32 points that is going to struggle against the most common match-ups.

Is he the best non-Poe T70? Probably. Does that make him competitive? Probably not.

VS Aces, he move before Fel, he can put himself at R1 easly and bring him 2 stress easly.

He can do it vs any 8+ Ace (7+ if doesn't go first).

Well, I wanna give him a chance.

Whatever, bud.

I "might be surprised," but seeing as I played in three Regional and two National tournaments in 2016 (making the cut in all except one of the Nationals) and played almost every single game of those tournaments against Torp Scouts, Dengaroos, Palp Aces, and Crack Swarms, I think I've got a fair amount of actual tournament table experience against those lists I'm talking about (not to mention dozens of practice games against all of those big archetype builds).

You placed, but didn't win any of them? You want a badge for that? Placing in top 32/16 ain't the hardest to do. I made it into the top 32 at the Chicago open. It wasn't exactly the most difficult thing. Unless you travelled 8+ hours or more to get to those tournaments, you are only showing you are lucky enough to have a plethora of events near you. I can't go to nationals unless I take 3-4 days off for travel.

But honestly, unless you are winning all of them, meh.

What I'm telling you is that much like many releases of this game, people need to stop down playing it before it has reached its potential. No one was playing dengaroo at the open series because it wasn't a common idea yet. Give it time and you will see things in this expansion, even the Xs do something. Nien is setting up to be one of the better stress givers in the game now and that might shift things back around. We don't know. It's to early for us to know, and you pretending that you are the final authority on it because you played in one meta, one year, and made the cut a few times isn't that impressive.

Vassal?

You can make any Nien Nunb builds you want, and I'll play flavors of Dengaroo, Torp Scouts, Palp Aces, and Crack Swarms. If you want some empirical evidence, I'm also curious in seeing how he actually flies. We can see if my skepticism is warranted or pre-emptive.

Oh God's this is rich!

Hahahaha God's I am dying of laughter here.

I will let you all in on the joke. You see, I have challenged AllWingsStandingBy before and he backed right out but is more than willing to take that idea and push it on someone else.

Ignore AllWingsStandingBy. He likes to make wild claims and never backs them up except with anecdotal claims.

God's this is funny.

Well, not to make it personal or to continue beating the dead horse you keep dragging out in the Armada forums regarding your reputation, but to be fair, I only said I didn't want to play you on Vassal, given your reputation for being an obnoxious opponent and sore loser (e.g. the three threads you've started in the Armada Forum about your entire local community boycotting future tournaments if you were allowed to continue playing). Why would I accept your 'deathmatch challenge' when either (1) you lose and I have to deal with your infamous saltiness -=or-- (2) you win and gloat about it forever. That's lose-lose in my book.

I'm genuinely curious about Hujoe's claims and Nien's worth, so if he wants to log some games pitting Nien against some of the top-tier lists I'm as curious as he is. I have no reason to think he's a bad sport, so I don't have any reason to believe it would be an utterly negative experience. Also, X-Wing Vassal games can be played in 30 minutes, Armada is a 3-hour investment and far more complicated to play via Vassal and it's difficult to set aside three hours for a Vassal excursion, especially when the opponent has a reputation for being utterly miserable.

So I'd say apples to oranges, but perhaps not.

Whatever, bud.

I "might be surprised," but seeing as I played in three Regional and two National tournaments in 2016 (making the cut in all except one of the Nationals) and played almost every single game of those tournaments against Torp Scouts, Dengaroos, Palp Aces, and Crack Swarms, I think I've got a fair amount of actual tournament table experience against those lists I'm talking about (not to mention dozens of practice games against all of those big archetype builds).

You placed, but didn't win any of them? You want a badge for that? Placing in top 32/16 ain't the hardest to do. I made it into the top 32 at the Chicago open. It wasn't exactly the most difficult thing. Unless you travelled 8+ hours or more to get to those tournaments, you are only showing you are lucky enough to have a plethora of events near you. I can't go to nationals unless I take 3-4 days off for travel.

But honestly, unless you are winning all of them, meh.

What I'm telling you is that much like many releases of this game, people need to stop down playing it before it has reached its potential. No one was playing dengaroo at the open series because it wasn't a common idea yet. Give it time and you will see things in this expansion, even the Xs do something. Nien is setting up to be one of the better stress givers in the game now and that might shift things back around. We don't know. It's to early for us to know, and you pretending that you are the final authority on it because you played in one meta, one year, and made the cut a few times isn't that impressive.

Vassal?

You can make any Nien Nunb builds you want, and I'll play flavors of Dengaroo, Torp Scouts, Palp Aces, and Crack Swarms. If you want some empirical evidence, I'm also curious in seeing how he actually flies. We can see if my skepticism is warranted or pre-emptive.

Oh God's this is rich!

Hahahaha God's I am dying of laughter here.

I will let you all in on the joke. You see, I have challenged AllWingsStandingBy before and he backed right out but is more than willing to take that idea and push it on someone else.

Ignore AllWingsStandingBy. He likes to make wild claims and never backs them up except with anecdotal claims.

God's this is funny.

Well, not to make it personal or to continue beating the dead horse you keep dragging out in the Armada forums regarding your reputation, but to be fair, I only said I didn't want to play you on Vassal, given your reputation for being an obnoxious opponent and sore loser (e.g. the three threads you've started in the Armada Forum about your entire local community boycotting future tournaments if you were allowed to continue playing). Why would I accept your 'deathmatch challenge' when either (1) you lose and I have to deal with your infamous saltiness -=or-- (2) you win and gloat about it forever. That's lose-lose in my book.

I'm genuinely curious about Hujoe's claims and Nien's worth, so if he wants to log some games pitting Nien against some of the top-tier lists I'm as curious as he is. I have no reason to think he's a bad sport, so I don't have any reason to believe it would be an utterly negative experience. Also, X-Wing Vassal games can be played in 30 minutes, Armada is a 3-hour investment and far more complicated to play via Vassal and it's difficult to set aside three hours for a Vassal excursion, especially when the opponent has a reputation for being utterly miserable.

So I'd say apples to oranges, but perhaps not.

I'm not sure his ability works well with rage,

His ability triggers once per opportunity- rage gives 2x stress at once - so his ability should remove only one stress token, right?

Nien Nunb is 29 pts

Ello Asty is 30 pts

I can see why Ello blew up on Starkiller base.

Nien Nunb is 29 pts

Ello Asty is 30 pts

I can see why Ello blew up on Starkiller base.

Ello obviously blew up at Starkiller Base due to being unable to Tallon Roll in the trench...but good news he gets to be the Biggs of Episode VIII, just with a less great ability in this game.

I really wonder what his game ability would be if the designers saw the movie before he was made.

Nien Nunb is 29 pts

Ello Asty is 30 pts

I can see why Ello blew up on Starkiller base.

Ello obviously blew up at Starkiller Base due to being unable to Tallon Roll in the trench...but good news he gets to be the Biggs of Episode VIII, just with a less great ability in this game.

I really wonder what his game ability would be if the designers saw the movie before he was made.

I bet it'd be "Your other T-70 X-wing ships hull value cannot go below "1" as long as Ello Asty is not destroyed or fled from the combat space"

Make Triple X-wing lists great again!

Nien Nunb is 29 pts

Ello Asty is 30 pts

I can see why Ello blew up on Starkiller base.

Ello obviously blew up at Starkiller Base due to being unable to Tallon Roll in the trench...but good news he gets to be the Biggs of Episode VIII, just with a less great ability in this game.

I really wonder what his game ability would be if the designers saw the movie before he was made.

His only lines in the movie are "...but no damage!" (after Proton Torpedoes fail to hamper the oscillator) and "RaarrrgghhhhhH!!' as he dies. Not exactly a lot to go on, but Wookiepedia does say he was both reckless and preferred to fly alone with a wide space between himself and squad-mates.

So maybe something akin to a a "Lone Wolf" ability where he got a bonus for being at least Range 2 from any friendly ships. To keep it interesting, maybe something like:

"When attacking or defending, if no other friendly ships are at Range 1 or 2, add one [Crit] result."

Captures his hard-hitting nature when flying solo while also representing his recklessness [if he's all alone and getting attacked by multiple enemies, he'll pay the price]. A natural home for Lone Wolf. Certainly more interesting and flavorful, at least, than his white T-Roll version.

I'm not sure his ability works well with rage,

His ability triggers once per opportunity- rage gives 2x stress at once - so his ability should remove only one stress token, right?

The trigger is "When you recieve a stress token". Each token is a seperate opportunity.

I'm not sure his ability works well with rage,

His ability triggers once per opportunity- rage gives 2x stress at once - so his ability should remove only one stress token, right?

The trigger is "When you recieve a stress token". Each token is a seperate opportunity.

I'm not so sure that they are separate opportunities - since it's receive two stress tokens - You don't hand out one stress, and then a second stress.

Sure, it looks cool on paper. It's still a 32 point ship that will die instantly to Torp Scouts or Dengar

With Boost and possibly BR (if you take Vectored Thrusters), there is very little risk from Torpedo Scouts at PS3 as you get 2 repositioning moves to get out of arc or into Range 1 where their torpedoes cannot hurt you. Yes Dengar is a risk but then he is to most ships. Nien is no more vulnerable to Dengar than anyone else.

I'm not sure his ability works well with rage,

His ability triggers once per opportunity- rage gives 2x stress at once - so his ability should remove only one stress token, right?

The trigger is "When you recieve a stress token". Each token is a seperate opportunity.

I'm not so sure that they are separate opportunities - since it's receive two stress tokens - You don't hand out one stress, and then a second stress.

Nope. Check the FAQ for the interaction between Soontir and Rage. Each token is a separate opportunity per that interaction.

thats why you predict their movement so they end their maneuver inside your arc range1.

Snapshot goes off before actions, so unless they have a "do a free boost/barrelroll after executing a maneuver" rule AND have initiative they cannot dodge your snapshot. R3A2 gives you both a stress, Nein destresses and said Ace is now stressed and cannot do any actions.

Its not 100% foolproof, as they can do somethingn unpredictable, but usually if you dont end your maneuver in someones face they cant arcdodge you and still have a shot themselves.

This would partner so well with Cassian Andor (crew). Drop the ship with Snap Shot where you expect the ace to Land and then use Cassian to guess their next most-likely position. If they land in front of you, you can Snap Shot and double-stress them. If they land where you predicted with Cassian, you can reset your dial and slap them where you want them.

All the funsies!

thats why you predict their movement so they end their maneuver inside your arc range1.

Snapshot goes off before actions, so unless they have a "do a free boost/barrelroll after executing a maneuver" rule AND have initiative they cannot dodge your snapshot. R3A2 gives you both a stress, Nein destresses and said Ace is now stressed and cannot do any actions.

Its not 100% foolproof, as they can do somethingn unpredictable, but usually if you dont end your maneuver in someones face they cant arcdodge you and still have a shot themselves.

This would partner so well with Cassian Andor (crew). Drop the ship with Snap Shot where you expect the ace to Land and then use Cassian to guess their next most-likely position. If they land in front of you, you can Snap Shot and double-stress them. If they land where you predicted with Cassian, you can reset their dial and slap them where you want them.

All the funsies!

Cassian resets YOUR dial, not theirs, but it still works.

Cassian resets YOUR dial, not theirs, but it still works.

Note to self: Think faster, type slower.

Do I have it right that he can T-Roll into effective range to trigger his ability, then PtL and remove that stress, too, if he's still at range 1, in-arc of an enemy?

It says in the article that it's a case by case scenario, so if you Tallon roll to R1, you clear stress, you TL then PTL boost and still in R1 then you clear that stress too, and if you have the R4 stress droid, I could have that droid wrong, i am not a Rebel player, but if you use the stress droid and are in R1 still of the enemy then you clear that stress too.

The only caveat is that you remain in your arc of the enemy.

Nien just became the ultimate Iceman.... he is that cool under pressure. If I had time I would be posting a picture of Dr Freeze and Val kilmer,(Iceman from Top Gun) merged into one guy.

Nien just became the ultimate Iceman.... he is that cool under pressure. If I had time I would be posting a picture of …

…

Whatever, bud.

I "might be surprised," but seeing as I played in three Regional and two National tournaments in 2016 (making the cut in all except one of the Nationals) and played almost every single game of those tournaments against Torp Scouts, Dengaroos, Palp Aces, and Crack Swarms, I think I've got a fair amount of actual tournament table experience against those lists I'm talking about (not to mention dozens of practice games against all of those big archetype builds).

You placed, but didn't win any of them? You want a badge for that? Placing in top 32/16 ain't the hardest to do. I made it into the top 32 at the Chicago open. It wasn't exactly the most difficult thing. Unless you travelled 8+ hours or more to get to those tournaments, you are only showing you are lucky enough to have a plethora of events near you. I can't go to nationals unless I take 3-4 days off for travel.

But honestly, unless you are winning all of them, meh.

What I'm telling you is that much like many releases of this game, people need to stop down playing it before it has reached its potential. No one was playing dengaroo at the open series because it wasn't a common idea yet. Give it time and you will see things in this expansion, even the Xs do something. Nien is setting up to be one of the better stress givers in the game now and that might shift things back around. We don't know. It's to early for us to know, and you pretending that you are the final authority on it because you played in one meta, one year, and made the cut a few times isn't that impressive.

Vassal?

You can make any Nien Nunb builds you want, and I'll play flavors of Dengaroo, Torp Scouts, Palp Aces, and Crack Swarms. If you want some empirical evidence, I'm also curious in seeing how he actually flies. We can see if my skepticism is warranted or pre-emptive.

Hey, I'm always up for putting my ideas to the test against the worst the meta has to offer. I'm not Hujoe Bigs, but I'll happily play you sometime to test Nien Nunb out. PM me, if you like. We can set something up.

i just thought of something.

When is stress removed via a green maneuver? Snapshot might go off before that does....which would royally put a cap on this antiaction shenanigans.

In an non defender/countess ace, usually a green movement comes after a red one (or a push the limits), to clear the stress. So if you give another stress via tactician/r2A3 snap shot, is of no vital importance if it comes before or after the stress clearing, because in both cases, a stress will remain, preventing any actions from the ace.

Anyway i would also want to know if the snapshot is done after or before the stress clearing of a green move.

Sure, it looks cool on paper. It's still a 32 point ship that will die instantly to Torp Scouts or Dengar

Yes Dengar is a risk but then he is to most ships. Nien is no more vulnerable to Dengar than anyone else.

I disagree. Nien pretty much needs to joust, as his T70 is no Interceptor or TIE Adv Prototype (even with Push and Vectored Thrusters). The T70's greens are, by comparison, terrible, which means you can only move like an interceptor/inquisitor when you're ending your movement at R1 of Dengar to pitch that stress. But if you do that, Dengar hasn't moved yet, which means when he does move he's very likely either getting out of Nien's arc or bumping Nien. Thus, Nien is looking at having to joust with Dengar or play the long-distance chase game, and both can be disasters.

Unlike Palp Aces or X7s, Nien lacks the defense to weather Dengar long enough to do enough damage to be worth 30+ points. Nien also lacks auto-thrusters (if you go the Vectored Thrusters or Integrated Astromech route), which means he eats damage a lot faster against Dengar, especially with only two agility and no Palp or Evade token insurance. Inq, Fel, and X7 Ryad all effectively get 3 Actions a turn, to spread amongst repositioning, defense, and offense (backed usually by Palps insurance). Nien has to pick from only two actions a turn assuming he's got PtL, and if he's repositioning he's getting a mediocre offensive roll. If Nien takes autothrusters, he's bypassing Vectored Thrusters which only allows him to Boost with PtL, greatly reducing his maneuverability, though he'll tank a bit longer. Either way, he's far less efficient than the similarly costed Inq, Fel, and Ryad.

Unlike Torp Scouts, Party Buses, VCXs, or even TLT Ys, Nien doesn't hit hard enough to do reliable damage to Dengar. Even if Nien does F+TL every turn (somehow not needing to reposition to maintain shots or avoid counterattacks) he's only likely to get 1 damage through per attack assuming he rolls well. As opposed to a similarly costed Torp Scout that can bank on forcing through two damage per torp, even during a turn where Dengar has popped Countermeasures+Glitter (turns where Nien and his allies are probably going to forgo attacking or end up doing no damage anyways).

If Nien is built to Stress Control with R3A2+Snap Shot, Dengar doesn't care about the stress at all. And if Nien is triggering Snap Shot when Dengar moves, odds are Dengar also has Nien in arc, which means Nien throws two dice against 2+LoneWolf and then is going to eat a 4-Die+LW counterattack and a 4-Die+LW+F normal attack. That alone might wipe Nien off the board even before he makes his regular attack (if Dengar doesn't counter on the Snap and waits, Nien will probably end up having to forgo his own attack to not eat the 4+LW+F return attack. It'll be difficult for Nien to set up future Snap Shots against Dengar again because on turns it may be viable Dengar is as likely to just bump Nien, which doesn't hamper Dengar much at all (he bypasses Snap Shot and the Regular attack and still gets his full action suite from Manaroo or Glitter + LW).

For these reasons, I actually think Nien is a lot worse off against Dengaroo than Palp Aces, X7s, Torp Scouts / Party Buses, and VCXs.are.

I think the main thing a PTL or SOT Nien Nunb has going for him against Dengaroo is that he's actually pretty good at chasing Manaroo. His main tool against Dengar, I suspect, will be to use a lot of concurrent T-rolls to avoid getting in Dengar's front arc. He still can't last all that long against a Manaroo-powered Dengar, but I think he'll be able to avoid the double-tap. He will definitely need to rely on the rest of his squad to help drop Dengar, though. He doesn't have the tools on his own, but he can merely contribute without being a liability. I've got to get this on the table, though.

I'll be at worlds, if you wanna play, I'll be there, but I have no interest in vassal any more. Between the connection issues I had back when I was on AT&T, and the fact that when ever I played I plugged my results into lady luck to see I was always getting 30% more blanks then expected, I choose not to use it. That and it's extremely easy to cheat in vassal with pre measuring.

But if we have time I would like to play at worlds. I'm not trying to insult your play, you might very well be a great player. Still, I'm just pointing out that playing in a single meta, does not, and will not ever, mean you will be able to predict with certainty the outcome of the next meta.

I'll also raise the point that on paper vs. what works can sometimes be surprising. Case in point, dengaroo. On paper to me at least it looks like a fat heap of trash, but somehow it's like the hottest new list in the world.

I'll also raise the point that on paper vs. what works can sometimes be surprising. Case in point, dengaroo. On paper to me at least it looks like a fat heap of trash, but somehow it's like the hottest new list in the world.

MajorJuggler mathed out dengaroo and aaid that with the focus rom manaroo dengar is worth over 100 points