Makes it hard to keep track, it was canon, now not because the mouse says so. I thought the sale meant they had to keep what was canon, guess not.... Guess we should all throw out what we know of star wars and start again....

Disappointing really, starting to feel a lot like Warhammer (Collected for nearly 30 years, now age of signar, what garbage.....) Buy all new mini's ploy. I understand making money (and I used to work for GW) but they became ridiculous.. Thus I am a convert.

Suggestion, dont mess with the established canon too much...... Keeps people happy with what they know...

Actually Disney is a lot more up front about what is really canon than Lucas was, and Lucas was the one who retconned stuff he called canon just so he could change it.

Disney came in and needed room to make the franchise their own, so they kept a few things, and rebranded most of it as non-canon. Going forward, they are clear about what is, and isn't canon so that they have one consistent narrative. So for example not everything in Armada is canon, but slowly it's filling in pretty well. This gives FFG basically as much design space as they want, while still keeping the canon narrative consistent.

Canon, non-canon... Lucas stole it all from Dune anyway.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/03/dune-50-years-on-science-fiction-novel-world?

First and foremost, Gameplay >>>>> Fluff. The great thing about FFG is they are keeping this game propely balanced while still maintaining a really good basis in the background material. But thinking because 15 years ago you could kill 37 X wings with a tie defender in one mission that this should be translated to Armada today is a recipe for the game becoming unplayable.

Secondly, Most EU fluff is complete guff.

Thirdly, Armada stats are a very high level abstraction of whatever the detailed capabilities of a craft are. Even for big ships, but especially for star fighters. Speed, acceleration, Armament, pilot skill, manouverbility. shields, armor and everything else are broken down into basically four dimensions - speed, hull, attack dice and special rules. That is why you have tie fighter squadron with three blue dice next to a B wing squadron with the same.

I'm hoping the tie defender is a very high end ship with great capabilities (and drawing no benefit from sodding rhymer!!). But its going to be roughly comparable to an improved X wing. Maybe 4 blue, maybe 2 blue 2 black antisquad or something.

I'm rather interested to see what mix of dice it will have for anti-squadron, myself. Another possibility is having a battery that is largely or entirely black dice - 3 black is better than 4 blue for anti-squadron, after all, and could be a way to increase damage consistency.

I suspect it is more likely that it will use either 4 blue or 3 blue 1 black, but it's an interesting thing to think about. Anti-ship I don't see as being amazingly powerful, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it as a single red, just like the X-Wing. However, a possibility that we have not yet seen could be double red, which gives an impressive max damage while keeping a fairly low average damage... and working super well with BCC

3 black is better than 4 blue... Unless you're fighting an Ace. I'm sure it will have a solid mix of blue dice.

If we assume 4 blues for anti squad and look at the cost for different anti-ship...

1 red: 14 points

1 black: 15

2 red: 18

2 blue: 18

1 blue, 1 black: 19

2 black: 20

I guess for me, the thought of sticking blue-black anti-shio on the defender would make it a (in general) much worse squadron than if it was just a red or black due to the big jump in cost.

I wouldn't mind paying 18pts for a blue-black mix of four antisquadron dice alongside two red bomber ones, on the already-known chassis. Sounds like an interesting concept - fast, tough, nasty against squadrons, and has a very large potential damage output against ships, though also a very unreliable one unless given the close support that having a fast and hard-hitting squadron often precludes.

They're going to be 26 points, have six hull, and four blues on offense. Two blues and a black against ships.

one can only hope

Ok but really, one blue one black.

They're going to be 26 points, have six hull, and four blues on offense. Two blues and a black against ships.

one can only hope

Ok but really, one blue one black.

That is what I am expecting

I never said it was the Imperial Xwing. I said it is comparable. It is superior in speed, maneuverability and firepower. We are arguing over the degree to which it is better. I'm saying it doesn't have a significant advantage in firepower over an Xwing because the Ion cannons were not used a lot.

Your experience and tactics playing that game are irrelevant, regardless of how fun (and let's be clear, that game was fun) it was. We are looking for canon or as close to canon sources as we can get. I'm pointing to novels in one of the few series that most people would call a good Star Wars series. You are relating personal video game experience. Personal eyewitness/experience is the lowest possible form of evidence.

Either way, I'm having fun using this as an excuse to complain while I wait on the preview articles.

TIE Defenders aren't canon, and don't show up in any canon source.

I never said it was the Imperial Xwing. I said it is comparable. It is superior in speed, maneuverability and firepower. We are arguing over the degree to which it is better. I'm saying it doesn't have a significant advantage in firepower over an Xwing because the Ion cannons were not used a lot.

Your experience and tactics playing that game are irrelevant, regardless of how fun (and let's be clear, that game was fun) it was. We are looking for canon or as close to canon sources as we can get. I'm pointing to novels in one of the few series that most people would call a good Star Wars series. You are relating personal video game experience. Personal eyewitness/experience is the lowest possible form of evidence.

Either way, I'm having fun using this as an excuse to complain while I wait on the preview articles.

TIE Defenders aren't canon, and don't show up in any canon source.

Author contrare, capitan. They're in the Disney approved Starwars Force Commander app!

And according to Wookiepedia a Battlefront DLC as well. Not necessarily ideal but just enough to save them from being legends only.

I never said it was the Imperial Xwing. I said it is comparable. It is superior in speed, maneuverability and firepower. We are arguing over the degree to which it is better. I'm saying it doesn't have a significant advantage in firepower over an Xwing because the Ion cannons were not used a lot.

Your experience and tactics playing that game are irrelevant, regardless of how fun (and let's be clear, that game was fun) it was. We are looking for canon or as close to canon sources as we can get. I'm pointing to novels in one of the few series that most people would call a good Star Wars series. You are relating personal video game experience. Personal eyewitness/experience is the lowest possible form of evidence.

Either way, I'm having fun using this as an excuse to complain while I wait on the preview articles.

Surely the ion cannons are intended to use them also in dogfights a lot. And if you insist that they were not used against snubfighters because you didn't used them, I feel sorry for your lack of skill as an Imperial pilot, as well as for a worse game experience. Ksch ... to the Rebels with you. Go and fly X-Wings.

I kind of wish FFG had given Ion Cannons on starfighters more love for Armada. Always scratched my head at fighters like the Y-Wing and B-Wing. The Y-Wing's 2 laser cannons and 2 light ion cannons = 2 blue anti-fighter dice...The B-Wing's 3 Medium Ion Cannons, Heavy Laser Cannon and 2-4 Auto-Blasters translate into 3 blue dice?

I feel like the dice include the maneuverability of the ship as well. It's harder for them to get their weapons to bear, so they have less dice. That was my take anyway.

Perhaps, but in that case you'd think the Y-Wing, with turret-mounted Ion Cannons would have more anti-fighter dice than say a TIE/Ln, with only fixed-forward firepower. Just a pet peeve of mine

I would have had the Ion Cannon be a card title, like bomber, rogue, etc. Ion Cannons were meant to immobilize targets, so i would have made them reduce the speed of starfighters on a blue crit. Or maybe an ionized starfighter (again blue crit) on it's next activation is moved in a direction and speed of the enemies' choice. Just thinking out loud here

I never said it was the Imperial Xwing. I said it is comparable. It is superior in speed, maneuverability and firepower. We are arguing over the degree to which it is better. I'm saying it doesn't have a significant advantage in firepower over an Xwing because the Ion cannons were not used a lot.

Your experience and tactics playing that game are irrelevant, regardless of how fun (and let's be clear, that game was fun) it was. We are looking for canon or as close to canon sources as we can get. I'm pointing to novels in one of the few series that most people would call a good Star Wars series. You are relating personal video game experience. Personal eyewitness/experience is the lowest possible form of evidence.

Either way, I'm having fun using this as an excuse to complain while I wait on the preview articles.

TIE Defenders aren't canon, and don't show up in any canon source.

Author contrare, capitan. They're in the Disney approved Starwars Force Commander app!

Yep, already covered it.

Don't forget that TIE/D had very limited service record exactly because it was so **** expensive. On speed and maneuverability side it was only matched by the A-Wing and its firepower was more than of an X-Wing. This craft really is a monster, but so expensive that they were kept on station defense duty and never used as an attack craft simply because even the Empire couldn't maintain a lot of them.

Don't forget that TIE/D had very limited service record exactly because it was so **** expensive. On speed and maneuverability side it was only matched by the A-Wing and its firepower was more than of an X-Wing. This craft really is a monster, but so expensive that they were kept on station defense duty and never used as an attack craft simply because even the Empire couldn't maintain a lot of them.

Wookieepedia claims:

More importantly, the ship was very expensive, with each unit costing 300,000 credits—more than five times the cost of a standard TIE fighter. .... Standard Imperial doctrine recommended that TIE Defenders operate in flight groups of four

134 / 4 = 33

TIE Defender:

• 5 Speed
• 6 hull
• 6 Blue Anti-squad
• 2 Black Battery
• Bomber
• 33 points

Wookieepedia claims:

More importantly, the ship was very expensive, with each unit costing 300,000 credits—more than five times the cost of a standard TIE fighter. .... Standard Imperial doctrine recommended that TIE Defenders operate in flight groups of four

134 / 4 = 33

TIE Defender:

• 5 Speed
• 6 hull
• 6 Blue Anti-squad
• 2 Black Battery
• Bomber
• 33 points

Special Ability: If you have 5 or more Defenders, use a squadron command to form Voltron, Defender of the Universe. Destroy target ship(s), flip off opponent and throw your dice in his face.

Wookieepedia claims:

More importantly, the ship was very expensive, with each unit costing 300,000 credits—more than five times the cost of a standard TIE fighter. .... Standard Imperial doctrine recommended that TIE Defenders operate in flight groups of four

134 / 4 = 33

TIE Defender:

• 5 Speed
• 6 hull
• 6 Blue Anti-squad
• 2 Black Battery
• Bomber
• 33 points

BS on the dual black bomber die. I am betting it will be an imperial X-wing, just like how the Z-95s are the Rebel tie fighters.

I say

5 Speed

6 Hull

4 Blue Anti Squad

1 Red anti ship

19 points

5 more points than an X-Wing for 1 extra hull and 2 faster speed sounds reasonable.

Wookieepedia claims:

More importantly, the ship was very expensive, with each unit costing 300,000 credits—more than five times the cost of a standard TIE fighter. .... Standard Imperial doctrine recommended that TIE Defenders operate in flight groups of four

134 / 4 = 33

TIE Defender:

• 5 Speed
• 6 hull
• 6 Blue Anti-squad
• 2 Black Battery
• Bomber
• 33 points

BS on the dual black bomber die. I am betting it will be an imperial X-wing, just like how the Z-95s are the Rebel tie fighters.

I say

5 Speed

6 Hull

4 Blue Anti Squad

1 Red anti ship

19 points

5 more points than an X-Wing for 1 extra hull and 2 faster speed sounds reasonable.

19 seems high.

19 for 4 blue/1 red is pretty high, yeah. For that, I'd want a mix of blues and backs, and better bomber dice to boot

Yeah, 19 for those couple of extras (when Imperials already get speed boosts, so the difference between speed 4 and 5 isn't all that great) is a bit much. 1 hull isn't very much at all.

The Rhymer tax will be the biggest thing making these untenable.

Wookieepedia claims:

More importantly, the ship was very expensive, with each unit costing 300,000 credits—more than five times the cost of a standard TIE fighter. .... Standard Imperial doctrine recommended that TIE Defenders operate in flight groups of four

134 / 4 = 33

TIE Defender:

• 5 Speed
• 6 hull
• 6 Blue Anti-squad
• 2 Black Battery
• Bomber
• 33 points

BS on the dual black bomber die. I am betting it will be an imperial X-wing, just like how the Z-95s are the Rebel tie fighters.

I say

5 Speed

6 Hull

4 Blue Anti Squad

1 Red anti ship

19 points

5 more points than an X-Wing for 1 extra hull and 2 faster speed sounds reasonable.

I think you'll see a better anti ship pool because these are not simply "Imperial X wings", they're the pinnacles of fighter technology. The only ship that should be compareable is the E wing.

They are faster and more maneuverable than Xwings: see the speed 5 and 6 hull compared to 3 and 5.

Their armament is identical to an xwing except for two Ion cannons. Why does everyone think the ion cannons suddenly make them go super saiyin? Going from 1 red to two black for ion cannons is comically overcompensating.

Outgunning a Bwing in anti-ship is laughable. A bomber with one black is justifiable for the Defender.