I seriously want a 15 point rebel squadron

I bet dagger squadron is 15.

Swarm and 2b 1bk for antisquad?

To me. It adds more ships. That's all. I'll wait to see how people build with it before I worry too much more.

1 point for each: Speed, Hull, blue anti-squad die, blue or red anti-ship, counter 1, counter 2, Swarm, Grit

2 points for: black anti-ship, Escort, Bomber, any defense token

3 point penalty for second anti-ship die

4 points for rogue and I think intel

1-4 points for unique text

-1 for Heavy

-4 base cost

TIE Fighter: 4(speed)+3(hull)+3(blue anti-squad)+1(blue anti-ship)+1(swarm)-4(default)=8

Fits most squads to within 1 point and every wave 1 squad. FFG sets a formula and adjusts up or down depending on playtesting.

Defend: 5(speed)+6(hull)+4(anti-squad)+1(red anti-ship)+2(bomber)-4=14 for cost.

What about Black Squadron?

+1 Speed and +1 Blue Die = 3 Points (Upgrading TIE Fighter to TIE Interceptor)

And adding Counter 2!

Quite correct, missed that, and it invalidates that part of the point. Squadron Points are Weird.

Either Speed, Counter, or both are stupid cheap....

I mean, +1 Speed, +1 Blue Die, +Counter2 = 3 Points. Which would lead that all 3 are valued equally.

I am sure the Formula, if one exists, is completely arcane and involves a lot of "Coutner is worth x per hull point, and y per speed... Escort is worth z per hull, etc", in a vast, overblown math sheet, which in the end, divides the whole total by 100 and rounds to the nearest number.

Many, many years ago I was involved with a LARP company, there were equations used to "point up' monsters and traps, encounters, etc.

All I can say is that the equations used, and I assume any ffg use are far from simple ones where THIS is worth n points per die, and THAT is worth y points per level.

There could be multi-dimensional matrices relating colour (YES I'M BRITISH!) of dice to the hull value, speed, etc. With modifiers for tokens, etc.

What I'm trying to say basically is that trying to reverse engineer a points value based on previous ship/squadron values is not going to be as simple as... 4 blue anti squadron is 3 points, hull is 2 points per, add 3 points per shield.

OK, this process, based on what we already know can get close on occasion, but nothing better.

I seriously want a 15 point rebel squadron

I bet dagger squadron is 15.

1 point for each: Speed, Hull, blue anti-squad die, blue or red anti-ship, counter 1, counter 2, Swarm, Grit

2 points for: black anti-ship, Escort, Bomber, any defense token

3 point penalty for second anti-ship die

4 points for rogue and I think intel

1-4 points for unique text

-1 for Heavy

-4 base cost

TIE Fighter: 4(speed)+3(hull)+3(blue anti-squad)+1(blue anti-ship)+1(swarm)-4(default)=8

Fits most squads to within 1 point and every wave 1 squad. FFG sets a formula and adjusts up or down depending on playtesting.

Defend: 5(speed)+6(hull)+4(anti-squad)+1(red anti-ship)+2(bomber)-4=14 for cost.

But I still believe theres no way that a fighter which loses escort and gains 2 speed 1 hull is only one more point than an Xwing. Won't survive the playtesting portion of the adjustment.

I seriously want a 15 point rebel squadron

I bet dagger squadron is 15.

Yeah probably I can't renderer does it lose bomber?

I don't believe so.

I guess that Defender will cost 18 pts. According to the xwing novels he should (in my opinion) have at least 5 blue dices (he was far more better than X). Because he was able to take some good anti ship stuff on board i suppose he will have 2 blue dice.

That are my dreams but who knows

1 point for each: Speed, Hull, blue anti-squad die, blue or red anti-ship, counter 1, counter 2, Swarm, Grit

2 points for: black anti-ship, Escort, Bomber, any defense token

3 point penalty for second anti-ship die

4 points for rogue and I think intel

1-4 points for unique text

-1 for Heavy

-4 base cost

TIE Fighter: 4(speed)+3(hull)+3(blue anti-squad)+1(blue anti-ship)+1(swarm)-4(default)=8

Fits most squads to within 1 point and every wave 1 squad. FFG sets a formula and adjusts up or down depending on playtesting.

Defend: 5(speed)+6(hull)+4(anti-squad)+1(red anti-ship)+2(bomber)-4=14 for cost.

Currently there are only two squadrons that can one shot an xwing without help, Vader and wedge. Do they mess with that? I don't see it having more than four dice, but I could see it having blacks mixed with blues.

1 point for each: Speed, Hull, blue anti-squad die, blue or red anti-ship, counter 1, counter 2, Swarm, Grit

2 points for: black anti-ship, Escort, Bomber, any defense token

3 point penalty for second anti-ship die

4 points for rogue and I think intel

1-4 points for unique text

-1 for Heavy

-4 base cost

TIE Fighter: 4(speed)+3(hull)+3(blue anti-squad)+1(blue anti-ship)+1(swarm)-4(default)=8

Fits most squads to within 1 point and every wave 1 squad. FFG sets a formula and adjusts up or down depending on playtesting.

Defend: 5(speed)+6(hull)+4(anti-squad)+1(red anti-ship)+2(bomber)-4=14 for cost.

Thats an excellent post.

But I still believe theres no way that a fighter which loses escort and gains 2 speed 1 hull is only one more point than an Xwing. Won't survive the playtesting portion of the adjustment.

Well the two squads that are closes to what I think the defender will be are the x wing and the Yt2400.

X-Wing : 3Speed 5Hull 4xBlue 1xRed Bomber, Escort 14Points

Defender: 5Speed 6 Hull 4xBlue 1xRed Bomber ? Points

YT2400 : 4 Speed 6 Hull 4 xBlue 1xBlack, Rogue 16 Points

In my book that means the Defender (with that dice config) can only be 14 or 15 points.

Currently there are only two squadrons that can one shot an xwing without help, Vader and wedge. Do they mess with that? I don't see it having more than four dice, but I could see it having blacks mixed with blues.

Bit harsh not to include Howl interceptors. Sure its with help, but that is the imp mantra

X wing is 13 btw

Currently there are only two squadrons that can one shot an xwing without help, Vader and wedge. Do they mess with that? I don't see it having more than four dice, but I could see it having blacks mixed with blues.

Bit harsh not to include Howl interceptors. Sure its with help, but that is the imp mantra

I dont think it's harsh, it just is what it is. Cause then we can talk about FC for x wings, which is help from ships which is the rebel mantra. And then we go back and forth. Which is why I said no help.

They're going to be 26 points, have six hull, and four blues on offense. Two blues and a black against ships.

They're going to be 26 points, have six hull, and four blues on offense. Two blues and a black against ships.

I mean they have speed 5 and bomber so Rhymer lists are getting another boost, even if the TIE Defender's are quite pricey they will have an impact as a dedicated Bomber list is worth running with Rhymer.

Not much would be my answer.

If you plan to field them with Rymer then on the turn you attack they can jump ahead of Rymer, after that they are stuck to within 1 of him and will be reduced to his speed.

Then if you just plan to jump out and attack someone, they will be limited to remaining in command distance or if they jump out of range they can jump back in next turn with more ease due to their greater movement. But for the most part they are tied to medium or long range from your ships and that may be the limiting factor of their use more often than not.

From a game perspective: it will be an Xwing that trades escort for 2 speed and 1 hull. In the EU it had modular/flexible launchers that could mount concussion missiles (modeled in game as 1 black die) or proton torpedoes (modeled as bomber with 1 red die).

5 Speed

6 Hull

4 Blue anti-squad

1 Red anti-ship

Bomber

14 points.

My guess is that they will be good at everything and excel at nothing. So congrats, Rhymer will be sticking mostly with TIE Bombers. Imperials that want a small but potent squad screen - one that can be activated by one ship - will consider 4 of these things. At least at first. Better and/or different tactics will arise later.

Agree with this. My guess is the Tie Defender is the Imperial X wing. If it has a Black Die or two Blue or two red anti ship I can see it being way more expensive, but with the 4 blue 1 red I think 14 -15 points are the price to go. Escort is a very powerful ability that is worth 2 points in the very simple model I guesstimated from existing squadrons. Speed and Hull are not very expensive, just look at the "best" squadron in game the YT 2400. It has only 1 less speed, Rogue and a black die. Sure it does not have bomber but Rogue is rightfully the most expensive ability by far so a tie defender must cost less than 16 points.

I think antiship die is an important bit of info we just dont have yet. If its sporting a black with bomber, I think its 16. If its red, I can see it at 15, although I still wouldnt be shocked to see it hit 16.

I think folks are undervaluing what a 5 speed, 6 hull bomber that doesnt fear your antisquad force is worth. The package is greater than the sum of its parts.

Agreed. I'm expecting the high speed, heavy hull, bomber and firepower to up it's cost substantially. When the Defender was canon, it was the best AND most expensive TIE design ever produced. If this thing is 15 points or less, i think a lot of people are going to be pounding their heads against the wall (myself included)

Hm ... I would design the Defender with an anti-ship pool of 1 red and 1 blue or 1 black and 1 blue. And anti-squadron with 5 blue or 4 blue and 1 red.

Not only they are equipped with 4 laser cannons and Missiles (or torps, hence TIE Fighter), but also with 2 ion cannons and a tractor beam.

Tie Defenders are designed to attack and disable freighters and capital ships, while winning dogfights vs. escorts. This should be reflected in the profile and also in the point costs as to be the most expensive fighters. But I really don't know how costs of the Tie Phantom is relative to the Tie Defender, background-wise.

Torps OR missiles. Not both. Since concussion missiles don't get a squadron the Bomber keyword, we can assume the Armada version is running Torps.

Anti-squadron armament was the same as an Xwings (4 blasters, torpedoes) plus ion cannons that were rarely ever used on squads. So 4 blue dice to match Xwings makes the most sense.

Anti-squad is the same as Xwings plus ion cannons. So most likely a red die, but conceivably a black. Certainly not enough to warrant 2 dice.

The Defender was a super-maneuverable Xwing for the most part. The Ion cannons and tractor beam rarely saw use in any book I read

Torps OR missiles. Not both. Since concussion missiles don't get a squadron the Bomber keyword, we can assume the Armada version is running Torps.

Anti-squadron armament was the same as an Xwings (4 blasters, torpedoes) plus ion cannons that were rarely ever used on squads. So 4 blue dice to match Xwings makes the most sense.

Anti-squad is the same as Xwings plus ion cannons. So most likely a red die, but conceivably a black. Certainly not enough to warrant 2 dice.

The Defender was a super-maneuverable Xwing for the most part. The Ion cannons and tractor beam rarely saw use in any book I read

I was refering to TIE Fighter and you surely never had the joy of playing this game. You can't experience dogfights by reading books. A Tie Defender is superior to a X-Wing in all aspects.

So what you're saying is, Maarek Steele is superior to an X-Wing in all aspects.

So what you're saying is, Maarek Steele is superior to an X-Wing in all aspects.

Is Marrek Steele a clone? He's got that Joruus C'baoth love of superfluous double vowels.

No, I just care so little for him that I never learned to spell his name correctly.