I mean they have speed 5 and bomber so Rhymer lists are getting another boost, even if the TIE Defender's are quite pricey they will have an impact as a dedicated Bomber list is worth running with Rhymer.

I mean they have speed 5 and bomber so Rhymer lists are getting another boost, even if the TIE Defender's are quite pricey they will have an impact as a dedicated Bomber list is worth running with Rhymer.

If they cost a pretty penny and have a blue or red bomber dice, that would make them very different to TIE Bombers.

Three options (assuming they are all-rounders)-

1. They are overpriced and noone uses them.

2. They are underpriced and everyone uses them.

3. They are priced right and fill a niche in fleets with low squadron activation potential. They will sit between fleets with no desire to activate squadrons (aggressors and firesprays) and carrier focused fleets (TIE Fighter/TIE Bomber).

This is pretty much all that can be said before they are fully revealed. I'd say its guaranteed to have less cost effective average damage than TIE fighters against squadrons and Bombers against ships, but will bring more average damage by squadron activation.

They will be overused by everyone who's ever played Tie-Fighter in the nineties regardless of their value or cost.

Me first!

They will be overused by everyone who's ever played Tie-Fighter in the nineties regardless of their value or cost.

Me first!

This right here. I will have a build with as many of the Defenders as I can fit. Just because it is a fracking Tie Defender

They will be overused by everyone who's ever played Tie-Fighter in the nineties regardless of their value or cost.

Me first!

This right here. I will have a build with as many of the Defenders as I can fit. Just because it is a fracking Tie Defender

Truth!

As a slightly more helpful answer, it's always difficult to predict what effect something will have when we don't know its cost or dice. I imagine, however, that it will fill its own little niche, acting as a fast, tough and heavy-hitting anti-squadron fighter, that has just enough anti-ship firepower to allow it to pull double duty without being remotely cost-effective enough in that role to replace the Bomber or Firespray. In short, it's going to be the Imperial answer to the X-Wing as an all-rounder

Well we have 6 hull speed 5, bomber.

Thankfully no escort.

I'd like to think its speed, hull and antisquad will mean its not a very good fit with Rhymer ball. I'm thinking 4 blue (or better) antisquad, single blue or single red battery.

It will be good with Lambas or boosted comms as a long ranging space superiority fighter that can then go on to bomb effectively. Points (assuming I'm correct on the other points) need to be cheap enough to make them effective.

So they should team up well with the Shuttle's relay skill, which is nice since they are sold together in the same box.

From a game perspective: it will be an Xwing that trades escort for 2 speed and 1 hull. In the EU it had modular/flexible launchers that could mount concussion missiles (modeled in game as 1 black die) or proton torpedoes (modeled as bomber with 1 red die).

5 Speed

6 Hull

4 Blue anti-squad

1 Red anti-ship

Bomber

14 points.

My guess is that they will be good at everything and excel at nothing. So congrats, Rhymer will be sticking mostly with TIE Bombers. Imperials that want a small but potent squad screen - one that can be activated by one ship - will consider 4 of these things. At least at first. Better and/or different tactics will arise later.

From a game perspective: it will be an Xwing that trades escort for 2 speed and 1 hull. In the EU it had modular/flexible launchers that could mount concussion missiles (modeled in game as 1 black die) or proton torpedoes (modeled as bomber with 1 red die).

5 Speed

6 Hull

4 Blue anti-squad

1 Red anti-ship

Bomber

14 points.

My guess is that they will be good at everything and excel at nothing. So congrats, Rhymer will be sticking mostly with TIE Bombers. Imperials that want a small but potent squad screen - one that can be activated by one ship - will consider 4 of these things. At least at first. Better and/or different tactics will arise later.

A reasonably priced Imperial space superiority fighter that still has a role when facing squadron-lite lists? Yes, please.

From a game perspective: it will be an Xwing that trades escort for 2 speed and 1 hull. In the EU it had modular/flexible launchers that could mount concussion missiles (modeled in game as 1 black die) or proton torpedoes (modeled as bomber with 1 red die).

5 Speed

6 Hull

4 Blue anti-squad

1 Red anti-ship

Bomber

14 points.

My guess is that they will be good at everything and excel at nothing. So congrats, Rhymer will be sticking mostly with TIE Bombers. Imperials that want a small but potent squad screen - one that can be activated by one ship - will consider 4 of these things. At least at first. Better and/or different tactics will arise later.

Yeah...no way thats 14 points.

From a game perspective: it will be an Xwing that trades escort for 2 speed and 1 hull. In the EU it had modular/flexible launchers that could mount concussion missiles (modeled in game as 1 black die) or proton torpedoes (modeled as bomber with 1 red die).

5 Speed

6 Hull

4 Blue anti-squad

1 Red anti-ship

Bomber

14 points.

My guess is that they will be good at everything and excel at nothing. So congrats, Rhymer will be sticking mostly with TIE Bombers. Imperials that want a small but potent squad screen - one that can be activated by one ship - will consider 4 of these things. At least at first. Better and/or different tactics will arise later.

Yeah...no way thats 14 points.

Seriously

From a game perspective: it will be an Xwing that trades escort for 2 speed and 1 hull. In the EU it had modular/flexible launchers that could mount concussion missiles (modeled in game as 1 black die) or proton torpedoes (modeled as bomber with 1 red die).

5 Speed

6 Hull

4 Blue anti-squad

1 Red anti-ship

Bomber

14 points.

My guess is that they will be good at everything and excel at nothing. So congrats, Rhymer will be sticking mostly with TIE Bombers. Imperials that want a small but potent squad screen - one that can be activated by one ship - will consider 4 of these things. At least at first. Better and/or different tactics will arise later.

Yeah...no way thats 14 points.

Thirded because I saw the ninja. Most conventional squadron-estimate formulas for custom units put that stat set at about 16 pts, or a pair of TIE Fighter units. It would be the most expensive non-Rogue we know of (obviously these packs could easily upend that, looking at you VCX-100, E-wing, etc.). As a matter of fact, most of these squadron packs look like super-fighters/tiny corvettes/other-strange-things that will never see huge numbers (with the Z-95 being the obvious exception). I'm curious what FFG has and how it will compare to the litany on KDY.

I mean, when you do comparisons across the board:


+1 Speed and +1 Blue Die, (And +Counter2) = 3 Points (Upgrading TIE Fighter to TIE Interceptor)
+2 Hull, -Swarm, +Escort = 4 Points (Upgrading TIE Fighter to TIE Advanced)

So the Defender, over the X-Wing, has +2 Speed, +1 Hull, -Escort

With a Blue Die on a Ship being worth about 2 points, its probably worth less on a squadron where your crits don't count, so lets call that a Point.

Which would mean that Speed is worth 1 point... Which would be +2 Points over an X-Wing for Speed alone.

If we consider Swarm and Escort to be a Points Wash, that would mean Hull is worth 2 Points a Piece as well... Which would put the Defender a further +2 Points ahead of the X-Wing... BUT. We need to know what Escort would be worth, and if that is Worth 2 points, then its down -2 on that.

Effectively, that would make the Defender around 15 Points.

But there are people out there who believe escort is a Negative trait rather than a Positive one, too....

I'm hoping it inspires a lot of oiled up beach volleyball.

...and kills YT2400s dead.

I'm hoping it inspires a lot of oiled up beach volleyball.

...and kills YT2400s dead.

+1 Speed and +1 Blue Die = 3 Points (Upgrading TIE Fighter to TIE Interceptor)

And adding Counter 2!

+1 Speed and +1 Blue Die = 3 Points (Upgrading TIE Fighter to TIE Interceptor)

And adding Counter 2!

Quite correct, missed that, and it invalidates that part of the point.

Squadron Points are Weird.

Either Speed, Counter, or both are stupid cheap....

I mean, +1 Speed, +1 Blue Die, +Counter2 = 3 Points. Which would lead that all 3 are valued equally.

I am sure the Formula, if one exists, is completely arcane and involves a lot of "Coutner is worth x per hull point, and y per speed... Escort is worth z per hull, etc", in a vast, overblown math sheet, which in the end, divides the whole total by 100 and rounds to the nearest number.

From a game perspective: it will be an Xwing that trades escort for 2 speed and 1 hull. In the EU it had modular/flexible launchers that could mount concussion missiles (modeled in game as 1 black die) or proton torpedoes (modeled as bomber with 1 red die).

5 Speed

6 Hull

4 Blue anti-squad

1 Red anti-ship

Bomber

14 points.

My guess is that they will be good at everything and excel at nothing. So congrats, Rhymer will be sticking mostly with TIE Bombers. Imperials that want a small but potent squad screen - one that can be activated by one ship - will consider 4 of these things. At least at first. Better and/or different tactics will arise later.

Agree with this. My guess is the Tie Defender is the Imperial X wing. If it has a Black Die or two Blue or two red anti ship I can see it being way more expensive, but with the 4 blue 1 red I think 14 -15 points are the price to go. Escort is a very powerful ability that is worth 2 points in the very simple model I guesstimated from existing squadrons. Speed and Hull are not very expensive, just look at the "best" squadron in game the YT 2400. It has only 1 less speed, Rogue and a black die. Sure it does not have bomber but Rogue is rightfully the most expensive ability by far so a tie defender must cost less than 16 points.

My guess is 15 along with the E-Wing.

I seriously want a 15 point rebel squadron

From a game perspective: it will be an Xwing that trades escort for 2 speed and 1 hull. In the EU it had modular/flexible launchers that could mount concussion missiles (modeled in game as 1 black die) or proton torpedoes (modeled as bomber with 1 red die).

5 Speed

6 Hull

4 Blue anti-squad

1 Red anti-ship

Bomber

14 points.

My guess is that they will be good at everything and excel at nothing. So congrats, Rhymer will be sticking mostly with TIE Bombers. Imperials that want a small but potent squad screen - one that can be activated by one ship - will consider 4 of these things. At least at first. Better and/or different tactics will arise later.

Agree with this. My guess is the Tie Defender is the Imperial X wing. If it has a Black Die or two Blue or two red anti ship I can see it being way more expensive, but with the 4 blue 1 red I think 14 -15 points are the price to go. Escort is a very powerful ability that is worth 2 points in the very simple model I guesstimated from existing squadrons. Speed and Hull are not very expensive, just look at the "best" squadron in game the YT 2400. It has only 1 less speed, Rogue and a black die. Sure it does not have bomber but Rogue is rightfully the most expensive ability by far so a tie defender must cost less than 16 points.

I think antiship die is an important bit of info we just dont have yet. If its sporting a black with bomber, I think its 16. If its red, I can see it at 15, although I still wouldnt be shocked to see it hit 16.

I think folks are undervaluing what a 5 speed, 6 hull bomber that doesnt fear your antisquad force is worth. The package is greater than the sum of its parts.

I seriously want a 15 point rebel squadron

I bet dagger squadron is 15.

I seriously want a 15 point rebel squadron

I bet dagger squadron is 15.

Swarm and 2b 1bk for antisquad?

I mean they have speed 5 and bomber so Rhymer lists are getting another boost, even if the TIE Defender's are quite pricey they will have an impact as a dedicated Bomber list is worth running with Rhymer.

We don't know enough to make a judgement. Other than they'll make the game cooler, obviously.