Defenders have been doing really well lately. Both the Canadian and Australian Nationals were won with an identical Defender-Palp squad I think (Ryad, Vessery, Palp-Shuttle). The almost automatic token double of focus plus evade makes those Defenders really tough to bring down. Sounds like Carnor-time to me.

Carnor really nullifies the defensive Defender action economy. Sure, they can target lock but they will be much easier to take down without the defensive double token. Besides, Ryad, Vessery and Glaive seem to be the most popular Defender pilots and Soontir just happens to out-PS them all so he can really have a field day with boost-BR.

Against Defenders I think Carnor has become a better choice than the mighty Soontir Fel because Soontir really has trouble getting the damage through those tokens.

What do you think?

Apparently Boost/BR isn't (necessarily) enough, as Soontir and the Inquisitor lost to Ryad and Vessery in Australia. Beyond that, maintaining range one in the face on infinite K-turns is a daunting prospect. And even if you manage it, the Defenders' locks means they'll still have respectable damage output, which is a problem for an Interceptor that doesn't get Soontir's free focus.

I mean, I'm sure it's a winnable matchup. I'm not sure it's a favorable matchup for Carnor.

I expect to see more Carnor, Wes Janson, and Old Teroch in the future because each of them has an ability that shuts down some of the most common powerful list abilities.

If removing tokens was enough, palob would see more play.

Maybe his ride is his weak spot, but it does have better range and no restrictions on arcs.

I expect to see more Carnor, Wes Janson, and Old Teroch in the future because each of them has an ability that shuts down some of the most common powerful list abilities.

Old Teroch + party bossk just to stop a turtled Defender with palp?

Carnor is such an annoying opponent very underrated by most folks.

I would imagine Carnor Jax and Old Teroch seeing more play becausemof their pilot skills. Palob has been my favorite for long time and would imagine him seeing more play too.

So far, the only reliable way I've seen to break through the Palp-Defenders is volume of fire. As many 3-die or more attacks as possible at PS8 or better to burn through their tokens.

I think that Steele (TIE/D, Tractorbeam, Adaptability +1), Vessery (TIE/D, Tractorbeam, VI), and Omega Leader (Juke, Comms Relay) may be able to reliably put damage through.

As that's 5 shots at PS8 against a single target (and if you're not focus-firing, you're doing it wrong). If your dice are average, and his dice aren't hot. You should be able to burn through most of a Defender in one turn, if not outright kill it. And thanks to Tractorbeam, may even prevent a shot at you.

Maybe there have been some players who have been stubbornly flying Carnor Jax in tournaments for a while (myself included) but I still talk to many players who still rate Fel higher than Jax.

I've played Jax against triple Defenders at the recent Malaysian Nationals but not yet against any Defender list supported by Palpatine so not much experience there.But with the right modifications (other than Autohrusters, I often put Shield) and some calculated flying and luck Jax can be very very competitive. That PS8 is something.

But yeah, Jax has been underrated for a long time now. I heart Jax

Maybe there have been some players who have been stubbornly flying Carnor Jax in tournaments for a while (myself included) but I still talk to many players who still rate Fel higher than Jax.

I've played Jax against triple Defenders at the recent Malaysian Nationals but not yet against any Defender list supported by Palpatine so not much experience there.But with the right modifications (other than Autohrusters, I often put Shield) and some calculated flying and luck Jax can be very very competitive. That PS8 is something.

But yeah, Jax has been underrated for a long time now. I heart Jax

I hate Jax.

Because I am not an Imperial player. I have tasted his wrath.

I think overall, Soontir just has better action economy, which makes him more appealing to fly. He can just hang back and stay alive, while flinging the occasional dice volley toward the enemy. Jax, however, can completely mutilate lists that rely on focus tokens (which is.... most lists), but maintaining the position to do that *and* have enough dice modification to survive an appropriate onslaught of red dice can be tough. Plus, unless you spend 3 or 4 points, only 3 hit points is an unappealing prospect.

But, I agree. A well-flown Jax is an absolute pain in the behind.

I was thinking the same thing last week, due to a Defender list that won the national here in France 2 weeks ago. And now the meta is Defender with the Title /7 .

For the moment with some good planing i win with a Scum list ( 2 G1-A Gandsman + firespay all atani mind link), but Aces Soontir , Inquisitor and Palp destroy me.

So yes i try building list with Jax. I made the conclusion that he must survive in the melee. What do you think of this ?

- royal guard title

- Stealth device

- hull upgrade

- Veterand instinct

And next to him a ship with the AP¨T : Draw their fire to avoid crit. ( was thinking a Decimator , a shuttle or maybe some ship with shield)

I agree that a Jax list is winnable and maybe not favorable agains Defender or Aces.

edit ( was the /7 title)

From experience trying him out, Teroch is MUCH harder to proc than he feels like he will be.

But yeah, Carnor, Palob, Teroch, Wes, 4LOM crew are all in the ascendant at the moment.

It's disappointing how few of those are Rebel, and how the Rebel one only kills a single token...

I was thinking the same thing last week, due to a Defender list that won the national here in France 2 weeks ago. And now the meta is Defender with the Title /7 .

For the moment with some good planing i win with a Scum list ( 2 G1-A Gandsman + firespay all atani mind link), but Aces Soontir , Inquisitor and Palp destroy me.

So yes i try building list with Jax. I made the conclusion that he must survive in the melee. What do you think of this ?

- royal guard title

- Stealth device

- hull upgrade

- Veterand instinct

And next to him a ship with the AP¨T : Draw their fire to avoid crit. ( was thinking a Decimator , a shuttle or maybe some ship with shield)

I agree that a Jax list is winnable and maybe not favorable agains Defender or Aces.

edit ( was the /7 title)

I don't know if both Stealth Device and Hull Upgrade together is good. I think Interceptors should have Autothrusters (usefull against Turrets, and also if you barrel roll and boost out of front arc a lot). Depending on your local meta, if there are Autoblasters, Crackshot etc need to be careful with Stealth as they can easily be lost.

Had a blast using Palob lately. The assasin build with CD, SPA and ABT (Mindlink for style) works a lot better than it should. His greatest weakness is any Bounty Bus. Its just so much health to go through.

Carnor is even more vulnerable to that. His ability is rarely better, harder to pull off and less rewarding. His ship is a bit better, though.

It's disappointing how few of those are Rebel, and how the Rebel one only kills a single token...

It's disappointing how few of those are Rebel, and how the Rebel one only kills a single token...

Wes only removes one token but his ability is also the easiest to use as if he can shoot a target, he can de-token it. Less powerful but more flexible and easier to trigger.

Arguable - I'd say Palob's is easier to trigger, as he only has to get range 2, not arc, and can take a token from someone regards less of whether he's shooting at them (or at all).

Carnor is fantastic, great ability, great PS, great dial, but, he suffers from Squint syndrome in that he has to take PTL and thus becomes far too predictable for my liking.

I don't know if both Stealth Device and Hull Upgrade together is good. I think Interceptors should have Autothrusters (usefull against Turrets, and also if you barrel roll and boost out of front arc a lot). Depending on your local meta, if there are Autoblasters, Crackshot etc need to be careful with Stealth as they can easily be lost.

I agree, but AT are very useful beyond range 3 and for turrets. But here in France our meta is loudy : Aces + Palp ; 3 def , Dengar & Bossk and now Lancer Class suit.

Jax go at close range , that's why i was thinking more hull and dodge. Maybe i'm wrong

I don't know if both Stealth Device and Hull Upgrade together is good. I think Interceptors should have Autothrusters (usefull against Turrets, and also if you barrel roll and boost out of front arc a lot). Depending on your local meta, if there are Autoblasters, Crackshot etc need to be careful with Stealth as they can easily be lost.

I agree, but AT are very useful beyond range 3 and for turrets. But here in France our meat is loudy : Aces + Palp ; 3 def , Dengar & Bossk and now Lancer Class suit.

Jax go at close range , that's why i was thinking more hull and dodge. Maybe i'm wrong

More hull doesn't give you more defensiveness, more defence does that. If you're equippind Stealth Device you really want to be equipping as many things that make it more likely not to be hit as possible, and Hull Upgrade doesn't do that.

I took this list to a summer kit that ended up with 24 people last weekend:

Carnor/PTL/Stealth/AT/Title

Ryad/PTL/MK2/x7

Omicron/Palp/Baffle

100 points and I don't really care about initiative. It did really well! Myself and 2nd place had to go before we could play the final (I won the salvo) abut he was a Dengaroo list built to combat carnor or wes. Could have gone either way I think. I won my other 6 games (4 round, cut to 8). Other opponents: Whisper/OL/Palp, decimator/3ties, vessery/OL/Rexler, 2x Scounts+Party bus (top4), Bossk/Dengar (Top8), and I can't remember the very first opponent.

Carnor is a HUGE PITA. And nobody figures a 5k from Ryad will fit when it does. Carnor shut down lots of stuff and led the way for the baffling shuttle to take that last shot on something. Ryad didn't deal as much damage as vessery but she was formidable. I think Carnor is optimal there with PTL/Stealth/AT because he needs that extra chance at evade. If not Stealth, then remove the baffle off the shuttle and give him a shield to soak up one crit. In all the games I played, a tractor beam on the shuttle would have also made things very interesting, as I was trying to keep people in the asteroids so Carnor and Ryad could circle.

I will say that VI Carnor is a gigantic risk, but could payoff in huge rewards. I just can't get out of PTL it would seem.

There is one great counter to Defenders that I think people forgot exists. It is TLT list.

Defenders don't have Authotrusters so they drop out to massive TLT fire.

There is one great counter to Defenders that I think people forgot exists. It is TLT list.

Defenders don't have Authotrusters so they drop out to massive TLT fire.

Probably not quick enough.

On average 4 TLTs don't kill a defender in one round.

On average 3 defenders kill a TLT before it can shoot a second time, and wound a second.

And that's assuming that all the TLTs get shots on the same defender, if they're forced to split their fire it goes much worse for them.

TLTs are good at killing defenders, but that doesn't make TLT lists good at killing defender lists.

There is one great counter to Defenders that I think people forgot exists. It is TLT list.

Defenders don't have Authotrusters so they drop out to massive TLT fire.

Yes and no, they have the dice to evade some attacks and 6 hull points backed up by the firepower to remove 1 TLT at least every other turn. Individually a Defender can get pinged down relatively easily, but the lists have a fair matchup overall.

From experience trying him out, Teroch is MUCH harder to proc than he feels like he will be.

But yeah, Carnor, Palob, Teroch, Wes, 4LOM crew are all in the ascendant at the moment.

It's disappointing how few of those are Rebel, and how the Rebel one only kills a single token...

Just from reading the card it seems like it will be difficult to reliably use Teroch's ability unless your opponent cooperates with you. It's there to discourage range one attacks against Teroch. Any additional token denial it causes is gravy.

I've went back to Mr. Jax lately. I used to run VI but that is was back when PS10 Regen Poe was popular and I needed Jax to be able to stay with him. Since then there are a lot more four dice attacks so I gave Jax PtL, title, AT, HU.

He does great vs Defenders in my experience. He helps me put damage on one by shutting down their tokens. Oh, your going to 4k? That's cute, I'll just do a 4 straight + boost and disengage. Next round I'll come back around while the Defenders try and catch up. Did I mention that Whisper and O-Leader are the rest of this list and that I really don't care if Jax is the first one to die?

In all seriousness, I've seen Defenders in tournament matches and they are a lot less scary than I though they would be. I refuse to engage them in the open where they can leverage their 4k and instead keep some asteroids between them and my ships. After the first round of fire I prioritize getting out of arc and going through the asteroids because I know they have a tough time following me. If you joust them they will hurt you, so out maneuver them instead.