Say, for example, you had a character that got the Improved Hard Headed talent in Bodyguard along with 4 ranks in Hard Headed (2 from Bodyguard, 2 from Archaeologist.) This would enable them to make an easy Discipline check every time their strain exceeded the threshold to bring them back to 1 below the threshold.

My question is this: Would you allow a player to use a talent such as Frenzied Attack to intentionally suffer strain, putting them above strain threshold, and still gain the benefits if the character succeeds on their Improved Hard Headed roll? Or would the character lose the benefits due to being temporarily incapacitated, even if they then succeed the Improved Hard Headed roll?

If you run out of Strain you are incapacitated.

Incapacitated characters can't take actions or perform maneuvers.

Hard Headed (normal or improved) is an action.

So no, you can't do that.

If you run out of Strain you are incapacitated.

Incapacitated characters can't take actions or perform maneuvers.

Hard Headed (normal or improved) is an action.

So no, you can't do that.

Incorrect.

The character may use his Hard Headed action to recover from being incapacitated due to exceeding his strain threshold. On his next turn after being incapacitated, he may make a formidable Discipline check as his Hard Headed action ( this action can specifically be performed even though he is normally barred from performing actions ). If he succeeds, decrease his strain to one below his strain threshold. The difficulty of this check decreases by one per rank of Hard Headed, to a minimum of east.

That's the full description of Hard Headed (Improved).

I think the answer to the OP's question is "yes, technically." I don't think it can be abused in the manner you're thinking, because it can only be used on the character's following turn after being incapacitated. So he couldn't use Frenzied Attack, become incapacitated, immediately trigger Hard Headed that turn, wash, rinse, repeat.

Quick clarification:

Yes, normally an incapacitated character cannot take actions. However, the Improved Hard Headed talent allows a character to perform the Hard Headed action while incapacitated, to reduce their strain to 1 below their threshold.

So I would say yes, you can do this, but it won't be nearly as effective as you'd think.

It would end up like this:

In essence, you will only be able to attack once every 2 rounds, and you will be unable to fuel any of your other strain-eating talents (or take extra maneuvers) while you do. Yes, it will be fairly easy for you to recover to be able to attack every other round, but you're still not very effective at all, and you're also very vulnerable from being incapacitated every other round, as well.

EDIT: BLACKBIRD!!!1! Always with the pre-empting my posts ! I really need to work on being less wordy...

Personally, I'd be piling on two or so setback dice to the Hard Headed check for every consecutive time a player tried something like that.

My question is this: Would you allow a player to use a talent such as Frenzied Attack to intentionally suffer strain, putting them above strain threshold, and still gain the benefits if the character succeeds on their Improved Hard Headed roll? Or would the character lose the benefits due to being temporarily incapacitated, even if they then succeed the Improved Hard Headed roll?

No.

If they don't have any Strain to use without being unconscious, they can't use the Talent.

I'd allow it on a technicality. That said, after the second time they drop him using non-lethal damage, methinks the opposition would switch to lethal....

I'd allow it on a technicality. That said, after the second time they drop him using non-lethal damage, methinks the opposition would switch to lethal....

Yep, to cross lines, it's the "Oh, the Klingon won't go down to stun? OK, let's try disintigrate..."

If you run out of Strain you are incapacitated.

Incapacitated characters can't take actions or perform maneuvers.

Hard Headed (normal or improved) is an action.

So no, you can't do that.

Incorrect.

The character may use his Hard Headed action to recover from being incapacitated due to exceeding his strain threshold. On his next turn after being incapacitated, he may make a formidable Discipline check as his Hard Headed action ( this action can specifically be performed even though he is normally barred from performing actions ). If he succeeds, decrease his strain to one below his strain threshold. The difficulty of this check decreases by one per rank of Hard Headed, to a minimum of east.

That's the full description of Hard Headed (Improved).

I think the answer to the OP's question is "yes, technically." I don't think it can be abused in the manner you're thinking, because it can only be used on the character's following turn after being incapacitated. So he couldn't use Frenzied Attack, become incapacitated, immediately trigger Hard Headed that turn, wash, rinse, repeat.

If you run out of Strain you are incapacitated.

Incapacitated characters can't take actions or perform maneuvers.

Hard Headed (normal or improved) is an action.

So no, you can't do that.

Incorrect.

The character may use his Hard Headed action to recover from being incapacitated due to exceeding his strain threshold. On his next turn after being incapacitated, he may make a formidable Discipline check as his Hard Headed action ( this action can specifically be performed even though he is normally barred from performing actions ). If he succeeds, decrease his strain to one below his strain threshold. The difficulty of this check decreases by one per rank of Hard Headed, to a minimum of east.

That's the full description of Hard Headed (Improved).

I think the answer to the OP's question is "yes, technically." I don't think it can be abused in the manner you're thinking, because it can only be used on the character's following turn after being incapacitated. So he couldn't use Frenzied Attack, become incapacitated, immediately trigger Hard Headed that turn, wash, rinse, repeat.

You're right, I missed where this talent had a special exception for this situation. I clearly rolled too many triangles in that skill check.

I concur with others who would suggest switching from stun if that stubborn galoot keeps getting back up.

I think its very star wars to make a last gasp and I'd gladly allow a PC to take strain that would knock them unconcious and still take the action. Here is the thing Strain is INSANELY easy to recover in this system. Oh you got an advantage heal a strain. Oh someone gives you a rousing speech gain x strain, But last gasp is last gasp. Doing it once fine trying to do it multiple times... not at my table

Or drop a Thermal Detonator on him.

Or while he's unconscious, use maneuvers to pick up his weapons, put binders/a restraining bolt on him, or otherwise hurt him while he is completely helpless.

(That seems like a good way to get killed - keep getting back up, they'll quickly decide that the best kill is overkill.)

With a sufficient combat skill it is very unlikely to run out of strain. In most circumstances there are enough advantages generated to keep your character running. Especially when using talents like frenzied attack or true aim. I think the talent is more usefull when targetet by weapons with the stun-quality or weapons doing stun damage since stun cannot be countered with stim packs.