Hi all

Happy weekend!

Recently I have been mulling over some changes to my dual K-wing list due to the success of Marcus McAllister at the Nova Open

My list is as follows (and I have done fairly well with it at local tournaments)

Miranda Doni (50)

K-Wing (29)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Extra Munitions (2)

Sabine Wren (2)

Proton Bombs (5)

Conner Net (4)

Advanced SLAM (2)

Esege Tuketu (50)

K-Wing (28)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Extra Munitions (2)

C-3PO (3)

Proton Bombs (5)

Conner Net (4)

Advanced SLAM (2)

Now the question is, is Biggs worth it? In my experience the two TLTs and the bump up to Protons is worth it over taking Biggs - it gives the Ks consistent damage outside of the bombs and also gives the chance of direct hitting two HP ships through shields

Is Biggs required to ensure the K-Wings survive long enough?

The only list I have had real issues with includes torp scouts, I can see Biggs helping here but can also see him getting deleted first turn of shooting and then being left with the cheaper Ks

Thoughts? To Biggs or not to Biggs?

Biggs is never worth it in bombing K-wing lists as they do not fly in formation. You want your k-wings to SLAM a lot so biggs is dead weight in almost all matchups bar defenders.

The hardest matchups for double K-wing list ie. tie/D defenders and 3x torpscouts can be won with good SLAMs and proton bombs. So no - never take biggs in this list.

You may consider taking 3 cheap PS2 K-wings though. You make your matchup with swarm very hard but bolster your chances against U-Boats and make dengaroo and palp aces even easier.

Biggs is useful in allowing your K-Wings to get into a position where they can start to use their bombs without taking to many hits on the way in. Don't forget you don't have to be 'in formation' to use Biggs' ability he just needs to be in range of the oppositions ships. I've had K-Wings fly behind my opponents ships and start laying Seismic Charges whilst said ships are still being forced to shoot at Biggs who is lurking at range three... Where he belongs!

Actually you may be right HoundsTooth It's probably just that I haven't tried KK Biggs that much and want to stick to higher PS K-Wings. Probably your list just plays different than mine.

You can watch Marcus's games on SteleTV on Youtube to see how he flies with it. Marcus runs Biggs as 6 hull upgrades for a K-Wing against Aces that can reposition to catch them.

Biggs, just say no kids.

Biggs is useful in allowing your K-Wings to get into a position where they can start to use their bombs without taking to many hits on the way in. Don't forget you don't have to be 'in formation' to use Biggs' ability he just needs to be in range of the oppositions ships. I've had K-Wings fly behind my opponents ships and start laying Seismic Charges whilst said ships are still being forced to shoot at Biggs who is lurking at range three... Where he belongs!

Sounds like you may have been playing it wrong. Biggs has to be in range 1 of a friendly to absorb the shot. Unless you mean that your opponent couldn't shoot the K-wings because only Biggs was in arc, in which case, any ship would've done the same thing, you're not really using Biggs' ability.

Theres no question

Just remember how biggs works

If you can you HAVE TO

It's entirely possible with range control to go from out of range to bumping with the slams so Biggs isn't necessary to avoid the alpha, you just open up to the range 1 shots which can be pretty deadly themselves

I do like the idea of 3Ks but unfortunately only have access to two at the min

I find 2 are fine against dengaroo and have yet to lose that match up at tournaments

I've been completely squashed several times by lists that look like this one, so from experience, I can tell you that two K-Wings with 50 points on each is in fact a good list!

Two B-Wings is another story... and yes I've seen that one too...

I've been thinking of running this list as well. What are your thoughts on trading out the Proton Bombs on Mirandi for Seismic and Thermal detonators?

I've been thinking of running this list as well. What are your thoughts on trading out the Proton Bombs on Mirandi for Seismic and Thermal detonators?

I like this idea, gives you more bombs for those games were I've run out and gives the stress option

I've also been considering dropping esege to the ps4 and taking seismic torps when they release, it's another option and you can use it post slam - could also set up Miranda to swoop through where the rock used to be to then conner net

I've been thinking of running this list as well. What are your thoughts on trading out the Proton Bombs on Mirandi for Seismic and Thermal detonators?

I like this idea, gives you more bombs for those games were I've run out and gives the stress option

I've also been considering dropping esege to the ps4 and taking seismic torps when they release, it's another option and you can use it post slam - could also set up Miranda to swoop through where the rock used to be to then conner net

You could also go to the PS 2, which I really like because no one has moved yet. Would give you a late mover in Mirandi, and an early mover in the PS2.

Also, I love the idea of the Seismic Torps!

Biggs is really good for when a JumpMaster has to shoot him from their turret and not your K-Wing in arc with Torps

I've been thinking of running this list as well. What are your thoughts on trading out the Proton Bombs on Mirandi for Seismic and Thermal detonators?

I like this idea, gives you more bombs for those games were I've run out and gives the stress option

I've also been considering dropping esege to the ps4 and taking seismic torps when they release, it's another option and you can use it post slam - could also set up Miranda to swoop through where the rock used to be to then conner net

You could also go to the PS 2, which I really like because no one has moved yet. Would give you a late mover in Mirandi, and an early mover in the PS2.

Also, I love the idea of the Seismic Torps!

The only issue I see here is that ideally you really, really want to arc dodge the jump masters arcs, I think I'd rather be able to slam away than go for the block - slamming into them also works

Biggs is really good for when a JumpMaster has to shoot him from their turret and not your K-Wing in arc with Torps

Is it worth it enough? Will this happen enough times? A good jump player will just torp Biggs away fairly quickly?

Forcing a U-Boat to expend half of its payload on your decoy is always worth it. Rebels have some heavy hitters that you fly with Biggs to make up for his point cost.

It's a thing.

With K-wings set for bombing, do you bother with any turret upgrades or do you focus just on bombs? I ask because TLTS get pricey.

Biggs is useful in allowing your K-Wings to get into a position where they can start to use their bombs without taking to many hits on the way in. Don't forget you don't have to be 'in formation' to use Biggs' ability he just needs to be in range of the oppositions ships. I've had K-Wings fly behind my opponents ships and start laying Seismic Charges whilst said ships are still being forced to shoot at Biggs who is lurking at range three... Where he belongs!

Umm... read Biggs' ability. He only protects ships at range 1 of himself, ships outside range 1 of him are not protected.

Easy mistake to make, I've done it (a LOT) but nonetheless...

With K-wings set for bombing, do you bother with any turret upgrades or do you focus just on bombs? I ask because TLTS get pricey.

Tlts on miranda because theres no point otherwise

Abts on conner wardens so they can do something afterwards

With K-wings set for bombing, do you bother with any turret upgrades or do you focus just on bombs? I ask because TLTS get pricey.

The tlt gives you some consistent damage should you ever run out of bombs or be against an opponent that works really hard to avoid them

And there will be points throughout the match where you get 'free' tlt shots against an enemy that has no return shot

Further to this a tlt on Miranda is the way forward

Biggs is never worth it in bombing K-wing lists as they do not fly in formation. You want your k-wings to SLAM a lot so biggs is dead weight in almost all matchups bar defenders.

I suggest you go watch some of Marcus McAllister's matches from the Nova Open.

Link:

I initially thought the same thing as you, but the results speak for themselves.

edit: double post

Biggs is never worth it in bombing K-wing lists as they do not fly in formation. You want your k-wings to SLAM a lot so biggs is dead weight in almost all matchups bar defenders.

I suggest you go watch some of Marcus McAllister's matches from the Nova Open.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej5Jj20REwg

I initially thought the same thing as you, but the results speak for themselves.

The match he lost wasn't on the stream was it? Would've loved to know why he lost that semi game

Biggs is never worth it in bombing K-wing lists as they do not fly in formation. You want your k-wings to SLAM a lot so biggs is dead weight in almost all matchups bar defenders.

I suggest you go watch some of Marcus McAllister's matches from the Nova Open.

Link:

I initially thought the same thing as you, but the results speak for themselves.

Actually this is an example of K-Wing matchup in which Biggs allows for an approach different than usual - thus making matchup much easier. On the other hand against swarm biggs list will have really hard time.

While I generally started to believe that Biggs KK may work (mainly due to reading this thread ), I think that Biggs KK is a vastly different list than KK. Let alone bombing K-Wing plays totally different when outPSed or outPSing. It's kind of like comparing Dengaroo to 3 Jumps - similar ships but different playstyle and matchups.

Anyway both lists seem extremly solid to me and can be used to get good results at tournaments although adding Biggs isn't just some cosmetic change to KK list and I wouldn't dare make such a change without playing 20+ practice games with it

Thread necro!

Having played and won tournaments with both the Miranda + Esege TLT bombers as well as the KK Biggs bombers (without secondary turrets) I can say that both are fun, competitive, and have different play styles and purposes.

The Miranda + Esege build focuses on reactionary bombs and preventing the loss of your ships. It gets around the effects of annoying regen ships like Corran and Poe with the Proton Bombs, and with good maneuvering the TLTs allow you to focus down individual ships at range 3. Personal preference is to put C-3P0 on Miranda instead of Esege, since late-game Miranda is difficult to kill. In a meta that revolves around regen and/or low to mid-range PS, this list is highly effective. Biggest threat is an alpha-strike list that can focus down one or both of your K-Wings (pre-nerf torp scouts, Z95 missile swarms, etc).

The KK Biggs build focuses more on keeping the [low PS] K-Wings alive long enough to deliver their bombs. It also forces your opponent to plan their maneuvers and approach well in advance of what they would expect; by the time they start attempting counter maneuvers it is often too late. A lot of people forget that Biggs is still a 3-dice primary weapon platform that can do significant damage if left unchecked. Even the 2-dice primary weapon attacks from the K-Wings is sometimes strong enough to force damage through against ships that have lost actions due to Conner Nets. Of course, you have to accept that Biggs will be lost in nearly every match; now that Modified Wins no longer exist, this is not as much of an issue.