It has now been over 4 hours since my last reply that ended like this: " Range and obstruction bonuses are neither card effects nor are they abilities, they are added dice so they are not counted during the equation to determine agility value. " Because the rule about all modifications have to be finished before you can apply the to a minimum of 0 and even gave the example in the FAQ about increasing and decreasing values as proof of their train of thought. I haven't heard anything more and I am going to assume that they have just decided that they can't convince me I am wrong and quit the debate. I was a good one too, no name calling, nothing but polite responses and counter arguments to counter arguments.

I'm assuming this was aimed at your local group? Because the majority here would agree with you.

....

I'm assuming this was aimed at your local group? Because the majority here would agree with you.

Aren't we all part of the same local group? At least on a cosmic scale?

It has now been over 4 hours since my last reply that ended like this: " Range and obstruction bonuses are neither card effects nor are they abilities, they are added dice so they are not counted during the equation to determine agility value. " Because the rule about all modifications have to be finished before you can apply the to a minimum of 0 and even gave the example in the FAQ about increasing and decreasing values as proof of their train of thought. I haven't heard anything more and I am going to assume that they have just decided that they can't convince me I am wrong and quit the debate. I was a good one too, no name calling, nothing but polite responses and counter arguments to counter arguments.

I'm assuming this was aimed at your local group? Because the majority here would agree with you.

LOL, sorry about that. Yes the four hours since my last reply was that it had been 4 hours since I had heard anything from the locals and that bolded statement was my closing sentence in my most recent reply. But it now turns out that the one I have been debating with (aside from one other member of the group that chimed in to agree with the other guy) had to take a nap. We are back at it again now and have begun to talk in circles. He just can't accept the idea that agility modifications and range bonuses are separate things.

It has now been over 4 hours since my last reply that ended like this: " Range and obstruction bonuses are neither card effects nor are they abilities, they are added dice so they are not counted during the equation to determine agility value. " Because the rule about all modifications have to be finished before you can apply the to a minimum of 0 and even gave the example in the FAQ about increasing and decreasing values as proof of their train of thought. I haven't heard anything more and I am going to assume that they have just decided that they can't convince me I am wrong and quit the debate. I was a good one too, no name calling, nothing but polite responses and counter arguments to counter arguments.

I'm assuming this was aimed at your local group? Because the majority here would agree with you.

LOL, sorry about that. Yes the four hours since my last reply was that it had been 4 hours since I had heard anything from the locals and that bolded statement was my closing sentence in my most recent reply. But it now turns out that the one I have been debating with (aside from one other member of the group that chimed in to agree with the other guy) had to take a nap. We are back at it again now and have begun to talk in circles. He just can't accept the idea that agility modifications and range bonuses are separate things.

Point him to this thread.

Astonishing how thread with everyone agreeing became 2 page topic with wall-of-text posts...

He just can't accept the idea that agility modifications and range bonuses are separate things.

I know some people have trouble letting go when they're proven wrong. But I just don't see how he can defend a point that is so clearly wrong.

Because the rules are fairly clear that range adds a dice and as such the agility value has no impact on it.

Well I woke up this morning to the other guy that had jumped in to agree with the one I was debating having put a big explanation of how the fact that the FAQ is newer than the rules reference and it only has two steps for determining the number of dice rolled and doesn't mention agility at all. That means that there are no parentheses in the equation and the range bonus and obstruction bonus can be canceled out to a minimum of 0. I am afraid that nothing but an official email is going to convince these guys. How do I do that? Found it

Well I woke up this morning to the other guy that had jumped in to agree with the one I was debating having put a big explanation of how the fact that the FAQ is newer than the rules reference and it only has two steps for determining the number of dice rolled and doesn't mention agility at all. That means that there are no parentheses in the equation and the range bonus and obstruction bonus can be canceled out to a minimum of 0. I am afraid that nothing but an official email is going to convince these guys. How do I do that?

You can't use the Attack Timing Chart as a stand alone replacement for the rules but even if you accept the premise of their argument, they are still wrong.

From the Attack Timing Chart (which is what I believe he's referring to):

Sorry I have been out of town and away from computer access for a few days. I received my response from Frank just as I was leaving town and copied it into a response to the group. They have now accepted that they were wrong. I knew it would take something official to change their minds.

They have now accepted that they were wrong. I knew it would take something official to change their minds.

Glad you got it resolved then Proving yourself right doesn't hurt any either.