I've been playing houseruled units for both campaign & skirmish since ~May, and I think it's quite balanced My old post regarding cost changes

Backstories (i.e. how did I arrive at those numbers): 1 , 2

List of all changes I've made (and playtested):

AT-ST 10

Darth Vader 13

Han Solo 8

Chewbacca 12

IG88 8

Weiss 12

RGC 12

Boba Fett 10

Kayn Somos 7

Dengar 6

Sorin 6, add "Imperial General: when defending, roll both black & white defense die and pick which one to apply"

I like this. It looks very much like they should be costet, however IG-88 might have to cost 9 or 10 pts, because what I am thinking with him, is that he is comparable with the rHK's, and he is better than them, due to durability. But I would like to even consider him over my HK's and now, when I can get HK's and Greedo for the same cost there's no contest, if he was only slightly more expensive than the HK's, I would feel like there were reasons to take IGGY instead.

Han should also cost more than 8. I get you're comparing him to Leia, but he is strictly better than her, distracting on a spd 5 model is really strong and 'I make my own luck' is a better version of one of the best cards in the game. 3PO is undercosted, but his spd 3 makes up for it (somewhat), I would price Han at 9 or 10 probably 10, like Luke.

Vader is also to cheap for 13, because he has force choke. 14 points for him and we're talking.

IG-88: I felt that HKs were about the same strength of IG (2 unit vs. 1, also *kinda* immune to white dice + rerolls), if IG have a shootout against a group of rHKs on the skirmish battlefield I'm not quite sure who'd won. IG's more like a "go in & kill everything", while HKs are more like "I'll snipe you dead from 6 spaces away" (min 4, min 6 if you add " deadeye ")

Han: I've left Han's speed as 4 since I noticed "Fly Solo" would be broken

Vader would be a very good discussion. I mainly run him with " unshakable " from Bespin so that he actually costs 14 but has a way to get rid of harmful conditions (*ahem* stun *ahem*)

IG has a combo of getting 6 attacks of in a turn. Thats pretty powerful. I'd say 10 pts still. I am even interested in him for 12 atm.

I agree that it is very frustrating that the older unique models have gone unchanged for so long. I've tried to wait for a FFG fix but have decided to just errata my own cards with point reductions for most of the unique figures through Return to Hoth.

I am also considering increasing the cost of C3-PO and Gideon by one point each as I hate the idea of auto-includes. Has anyone tried this for skirmish?

Mercenary:

Bobba he really needs to be 10 ptsIG as well, they just suck so many points from having a complete arm. Mid they don't want to do that, then get rid of Battle Discipline and keep the abilities

Ig-88 I don't mind IG cost as much, but dump the +2acc and add a blue die to his pool

Dengar really needs a new skirmish card or more abilities if he wants to be taken seriously. He has to do damage to get his abilities off, he can't do enough damage on his own to get his abilities off, he is also too easy to kill for his point cost.

Since when does anyone take Dengar seriously? The poor actor probably showed up late and had to piece together some crap left over in the prop room. He's the guy the other Bounty Hunters point and snicker at.

I really just hope they'll go with making skirmish only versions of characters. There just continues to be a large difference between campaign and skirmish to balance everything.

Why only skirmish? The problem exists in both realms.

I would be VERY surprised if the next expansion after the Episode VI boxes isn't a Force Awakens box that includes new versions of Han and Chewie. That's what they've done with X-wing, and it makes sense for a multitude of reasons.

• Force Awakens is hot right now, and is a good sell for new players
• It's an even bigger sell if it includes classic characters like Han and Chewie
• Han and Chewie are both in the film and at different stages of life, so a new card with different abilities makes sense, and is long overdue

I mean I really don't see why they wouldn't do this. After a smaller box like Endor or something to follow Jabba's palace, I'm sure it'll be a TFA set.

On Endor Han and Chewie were both fighting. Why do we need to wait for old-ass Han and Chewie from the Frace Awakens set (which will end my relationship with this game).

I would be VERY surprised if the next expansion after the Episode VI boxes isn't a Force Awakens box that includes new versions of Han and Chewie. That's what they've done with X-wing, and it makes sense for a multitude of reasons.

• Force Awakens is hot right now, and is a good sell for new players
• It's an even bigger sell if it includes classic characters like Han and Chewie
• Han and Chewie are both in the film and at different stages of life, so a new card with different abilities makes sense, and is long overdue

I mean I really don't see why they wouldn't do this. After a smaller box like Endor or something to follow Jabba's palace, I'm sure it'll be a TFA set.

On Endor Han and Chewie were both fighting. Why do we need to wait for old-ass Han and Chewie from the Frace Awakens set (which will end my relationship with this game).

sry

Not that this necessarily proves Han and Chewie are fine, but I'm 6-0 with my Han and Chewie list atm including the latest game against the winning UK nationals list, I honestly think they're fine competitively, the only problem is they only fit into one type of list.

Not that this necessarily proves Han and Chewie are fine, but I'm 6-0 with my Han and Chewie list atm including the latest game against the winning UK nationals list, I honestly think they're fine competitively, the only problem is they only fit into one type of list.

But is that due more b/c of the players? If you would beat the person who played the UK Nationals list, then that's different. But there's always something to be said about players taking someone else's list and using it but isn't at the level of that player.

~D

Not that this necessarily proves Han and Chewie are fine, but I'm 6-0 with my Han and Chewie list atm including the latest game against the winning UK nationals list, I honestly think they're fine competitively, the only problem is they only fit into one type of list.

But is that due more b/c of the players? If you would beat the person who played the UK Nationals list, then that's different. But there's always something to be said about players taking someone else's list and using it but isn't at the level of that player.~D

I think 3-4 of the games are on my channel if you have time, would be interested in seeing what people think.

Might take it to regionals just to try and prove a point.

Anyway, I'm not trying to say it's the best list out there, just that it's a viable option

What is the list again?

Mercenary:

Bobba he really needs to be 10 ptsIG as well, they just suck so many points from having a complete arm. Mid they don't want to do that, then get rid of Battle Discipline and keep the abilities

Ig-88 I don't mind IG cost as much, but dump the +2acc and add a blue die to his pool Dengar really needs a new skirmish card or more abilities if he wants to be taken seriously. He has to do damage to get his abilities off, he can't do enough damage on his own to get his abilities off, he is also too easy to kill for his point cost.

Since when does anyone take Dengar seriously? The poor actor probably showed up late and had to piece together some crap left over in the prop room. He's the guy the other Bounty Hunters point and snicker at.

I take it that you don't play x-wing? ;-)

I watched the Han/Chewy video and I'm not sure it provides any real evidence to its viability outside of casual play. Your opponent was spraying damage around seemingly randomly with no real purpose (other than the nicely played grenade early). He even sacrificed a unit with a no hope shot at Han once. He had plenty of units to swarm and kill the support units if he would have just ignored everything else.

I watched the Han/Chewy video and I'm not sure it provides any real evidence to its viability outside of casual play. Your opponent was spraying damage around seemingly randomly with no real purpose (other than the nicely played grenade early). He even sacrificed a unit with a no hope shot at Han once. He had plenty of units to swarm and kill the support units if he would have just ignored everything else.

I think it's difficult to know what to target in that list, but I agree the choices were on occasion sub optimal, how would you have played it?

Personally I think C3PO is the first that needs to go down, but I know that and try to keep him hidden wherever possible so it can make it difficult, I also like to try and take some early damage on Han or Chewie (sounds silly I know...) to try and make people's mind up that they need to focus down one of those first.

Anyway we're getting slightly off topic sorry, but I think a lot of the figures on this list are entirely playable outside of absolute top tier. I took Sorin to Nationals and got to the Semi Finals with a 5-1 through Swiss, that list can be absolutely brutal (see batrep 17 amongst others) but people are suggesting that he's too expensive?

It's all about how you build and play the lists, some of the suggestions here really have to be built around rather than just slapping them into a list. I've seen Kayn win tournaments, I've seen Vader win tournaments, Weiss seems like he could be pretty brutal if you built around him right (Just a bit swingy as will struggle on some missions)

I get that not everything is top tier competitive, I just don't see that as a problem, I honestly feel the vast majority of figures can fit into a decent, semi competitive list and do well if built correctly.

Even if it is not the top of the top, I applaud your effort to show that you can play stuff, even competitively, that is not what people tell you to play.

I watched the Han/Chewy video and I'm not sure it provides any real evidence to its viability outside of casual play. Your opponent was spraying damage around seemingly randomly with no real purpose (other than the nicely played grenade early). He even sacrificed a unit with a no hope shot at Han once. He had plenty of units to swarm and kill the support units if he would have just ignored everything else.

I think it's difficult to know what to target in that list, but I agree the choices were on occasion sub optimal, how would you have played it?

Personally I think C3PO is the first that needs to go down, but I know that and try to keep him hidden wherever possible so it can make it difficult, I also like to try and take some early damage on Han or Chewie (sounds silly I know...) to try and make people's mind up that they need to focus down one of those first.

Anyway we're getting slightly off topic sorry, but I think a lot of the figures on this list are entirely playable outside of absolute top tier. I took Sorin to Nationals and got to the Semi Finals with a 5-1 through Swiss, that list can be absolutely brutal (see batrep 17 amongst others) but people are suggesting that he's too expensive?

It's all about how you build and play the lists, some of the suggestions here really have to be built around rather than just slapping them into a list. I've seen Kayn win tournaments, I've seen Vader win tournaments, Weiss seems like he could be pretty brutal if you built around him right (Just a bit swingy as will struggle on some missions)

I get that not everything is top tier competitive, I just don't see that as a problem, I honestly feel the vast majority of figures can fit into a decent, semi competitive list and do well if built correctly.

C3-PO is the best choice for focus fire and would die very quickly even with an extra block and evade. After C3-PO, go for MHD then Han. With the huge difference in figures and attacks, there's no way that list holds up to appropriate focus fire as it can't really kill more than 3 figures per round in the best case scenario.

In general, watching the video reminded me of bad action movies where the bad guys attack in small waves (instead of all together rushing in) allowing the heroes to prevail.

Blaise didn't even join the combat until it was half over.

You can't fight the Han/Chewy/C3-PO list on their terms. Either go all out rush, or make them come to you. In fact, that mission could have been won by just running away with the objectives. I don't like that kind of victory but the list requires everyone adjacent to function, so make them move or wreck the synergy fast.

I do agree that Han and Chewy have great synergy with each other and C3-PO. That takes them from terrible to tolerable in casual play, but only when played together. I think that's still unacceptable as all figures, especially uniques, should be somewhat (obviously not equally) playable on their own, not only as part of a specific combo.

If Chewie and Han cost 20 pts together, that would be good IMO. Id either add 2 eRebel Troopers and C-3PO OR 2 eRebel Saborteurs and Lando.

~D

If Chewie and Han cost 20 pts together, that would be good IMO. Id either add 2 eRebel Troopers and C-3PO OR 2 eRebel Saborteurs and Lando.

~D

My houseruled cost does put them at 20 (Chewie 12, Han 8), but I noticed in my casual skirmish the Rebel player usually likes to bring in Luke/Leia/eEBT+sprinkled with rSmuggler. I think eSab is becoming less popular in my group due to Zillo

Yes...I admit it I'm feeling that our "casual" game is becoming more & more like "competitive tournament" style play, but with a different meta due to those houseruled cost. For example I once ran Kayn w/ adv comm+eEweb+eSnow and it was a literal blast to play as the Empire

nothing wrong with Competitive Tournament play done in the right way

It's nice to have a balanced game where the majority of stuff is workable.

To put it into context I played 40k last night for the first time in months (a friend plays it so played it to catch up with him primarily)

I played what I felt was a semi competitive dark eldar list with a load of skimmers, he put down 3 invisible "stalker" tanks and dropped in a load of flamers and the game was over before I got my second turn and a non contest BEFORE I even got my first turn.

Now I know a lot of people won't care about 40k, but when I refer to balance, that's the kind of crap I'm comparing it to.

GW's horrible Game balance is almost impossible to attain, but at least FFG is trying to balance their competetive games, and they're fairly good at it. Just a pity with those early slips.

40K is a pretty gimmick to sucker people into buying models, it's not a game anymore than pro wrestling is a sport.

40K is a pretty gimmick to sucker people into buying models, it's not a game anymore than pro wrestling is a sport.

It's WRASSLIN'!!

~D

40K is a pretty gimmick to sucker people into buying models, it's not a game anymore than pro wrestling is a sport.

I still have some pretty models somewhere. . . and dreams of building more pretty armies. But IA is way better in my mind as far as playing goes.

I can sit down with someone fairly unfamiliar with the game and in an 90mins we've played a full game. In 2 1/2hrs we can get 2 in as long as we don't change the lists too much. That's including set up and everything. I sometimes couldn't get set up and play more than 2-3 turns of 40k in that time.

I have almost 2 of eveything in IA except for some of the unique characters, They are all beautifully painted and fit into a case that is easy to carry, I could never do that in 40k either without several porters and other manservants to load and unload my van to get all my stuff out.