We know it, the devs know it, the American people know it.

The question is, how?

A few ideas:

1) A massive errata that fixes all in one fell swoop, with easily obtainable AA cards. Future core sets will have the corrected cards in them. (Question: do newly printed Sabs and cores CURRENTLY come with corrected cards or no?)

2) A Skirmish-Only expansion that includes replacement cards (and other things to boost the skirmish game), some of which are skirmish-only perhaps (like Obi-Wan).

3) Offer skirmish upgrades that are specific only to certain characters, kinda like title cards in X-Wing fix older ships.

Other ideas?

+ extra deployment cards for current and future expansions.

good ideas but i think we are both dreaming. lolz There is no ffg love for skirmish and its so hard for new players to get into the game.

Wings of disagreement.

So far FFGs answer has been:

1. We'll make the new stuff better balanced
2. We might put out a new version of a character sometimes.
3. Power-level errata are for metagame balance issues.

Other than our own desires to see Han & Chewie in skirmish, why would they change that?

I think the easiest way would be a point reduction, since new cards are not needed - after all, the point cost is mostly important before the game, and preparing something to count the correct amount of vps is fine.

The points are abortions in campaign as well. Fielding Chewie or Han as an ally is just handing the victory to Imperials. Their "fix" of Murne's 4 point cost reducer is bad in so many ways.

Similarly IG-88, Boba, Vader are so over pointed it's laughable. I take IG-88 if I feel bad for the Rebels and I want them to win, but it's become pretty obvious that I'm handing them the victory. Even the Bantha without it's skirmish support cards isn't exactly good in campaign, but at 3 points under IG-88 it feels like a bargain even if it can't go indoors.

The points are abortions in campaign as well. Fielding Chewie or Han as an ally is just handing the victory to Imperials. Their "fix" of Murne's 4 point cost reducer is bad in so many ways.

Similarly IG-88, Boba, Vader are so over pointed it's laughable. I take IG-88 if I feel bad for the Rebels and I want them to win, but it's become pretty obvious that I'm handing them the victory. Even the Bantha without it's skirmish support cards isn't exactly good in campaign, but at 3 points under IG-88 it feels like a bargain even if it can't go indoors.

Chewie works well, but not in every mission. In the late game, Heroes can take out 14 points of threat much faster (Fenn can take a Squad of Elite Stormtroopers in a single Activation). Chewies +1 Bonus is also very strong and killing chewbacca takes a lot of actions. If you take the legendary Chewie on a measily 3-threat mission, you deserve the loss. The heroes are to weak at this point in the campaign.

It is not a balance issue, taking the right ally for the right mission is in my opinion quite cool.

The points are abortions in campaign as well. Fielding Chewie or Han as an ally is just handing the victory to Imperials. Their "fix" of Murne's 4 point cost reducer is bad in so many ways.

Similarly IG-88, Boba, Vader are so over pointed it's laughable. I take IG-88 if I feel bad for the Rebels and I want them to win, but it's become pretty obvious that I'm handing them the victory. Even the Bantha without it's skirmish support cards isn't exactly good in campaign, but at 3 points under IG-88 it feels like a bargain even if it can't go indoors.

Chewie works well, but not in every mission. In the late game, Heroes can take out 14 points of threat much faster (Fenn can take a Squad of Elite Stormtroopers in a single Activation). Chewies +1 Bonus is also very strong and killing chewbacca takes a lot of actions. If you take the legendary Chewie on a measily 3-threat mission, you deserve the loss. The heroes are to weak at this point in the campaign.

It is not a balance issue, taking the right ally for the right mission is in my opinion quite cool.

Yeah, I think a lot of the heroes are actually balanced better for Campaign than they are for Skirmish - but like you say, you can't being the expensive ones too early.

The points are abortions in campaign as well. Fielding Chewie or Han as an ally is just handing the victory to Imperials. Their "fix" of Murne's 4 point cost reducer is bad in so many ways.

Similarly IG-88, Boba, Vader are so over pointed it's laughable. I take IG-88 if I feel bad for the Rebels and I want them to win, but it's become pretty obvious that I'm handing them the victory. Even the Bantha without it's skirmish support cards isn't exactly good in campaign, but at 3 points under IG-88 it feels like a bargain even if it can't go indoors.

Chewie works well, but not in every mission. In the late game, Heroes can take out 14 points of threat much faster (Fenn can take a Squad of Elite Stormtroopers in a single Activation). Chewies +1 Bonus is also very strong and killing chewbacca takes a lot of actions. If you take the legendary Chewie on a measily 3-threat mission, you deserve the loss. The heroes are to weak at this point in the campaign.

It is not a balance issue, taking the right ally for the right mission is in my opinion quite cool.

Yeah, I think a lot of the heroes are actually balanced better for Campaign than they are for Skirmish - but like you say, you can't being the expensive ones too early.

It's worse taking them late campaign as that threat you give the Imperials benefits from all the class cards while your ally gets nothing making it even easier for all that threat to kill off the ally before it even contributes.

Ive alreaxy stated that they can easily errata the early cards with better pt costs and just put the skirmish symbol on them. This will allow the original versions to still be the ones used in campaign and not be over powered with the errata costs.

And they just announce it, allow the card to be printed and placed with your original and then in later tournament kits release the errata'd versions.

~D

Chewie is an interesting one because tactically his Slam ability can be the deciding factor in missions where you need imperials to be out of an area or not adjacent to a specific zone/object to win. Now there are more ways to do that than when the game first started though, so the value of that ability is probably less than it used to be. I also agree he is really tough to bring down - I've tried many many times.

Ive alreaxy stated that they can easily errata the early cards with better pt costs and just put the skirmish symbol on them. This will allow the original versions to still be the ones used in campaign and not be over powered with the errata costs.

And they just announce it, allow the card to be printed and placed with your original and then in later tournament kits release the errata'd versions.

~D

If they want to fix point costs for Skirmish, they could just bring some Han- or Chewie-only skirmish upgrades with negative point values, like they did with the chardaan refit in x-wing.

For campaign they could include an ally class deck for heroes in an expansion that any hero can spend XP on buying. As having an ally is a popular way of having a 6th player, you could also give that player XP to buy these cards with themselves. Call it the 6 player expansion.

e.g.

Stealthy Maneuvers (1XP): Reduce the threat cost of a unique ally by the threat level to a minimum of 4. The ally is deployed exhausted.

Forward Deployment (1XP): When an ally figure is deployed during initial deployment, it may interrupt to perform a move.

From Cover (1XP): During initial deployment allies gain health equal to the threat level. At then end of the round remove wounds equal to the threat level and this health is lost.

Came Prepared (1XP): Allies gain -> you or an adjacent friendly figure recovers 2 wounds.

Spare Armor (2XP): Attachment, Ally Only. +1 block. +1 health.

Spare Guns (2XP): Attachment, Ally Only. +1 wound.

etc.

One thing worth discussing is who exactly needs to be fixed and to what point do they need to be fixed.

Imperial figures:

Mercenary:

Rebels:

This is a lot of "Old stuff" (I'm taking it to mean anything pre Bespin because that's when the paradigm shift in unique figures came) and some of it is not remotely in need of fixing. (Note, this isn't intended to criticize Boba's original post I'm genuinely interested in a more definitive list of what needs fixing (academically because unfortunately there's no IA community to speak of here and playing online in GMT +12 is awful for everyone involved)).

I have understood that Elite Stormtroopers and Probe Droids are the benchmarks, so they certainly should not require adjustments.

im okay with not everything getting a facelift, or some of the older stuff falling out of fashion. Frankly, I don't care about campaign either, because that experience IMO is designed to be based around a narrative and the options there are plentiful. (Meaning you don't ever play Han Solo as a character, you always play the Heroes which are new or generic compared to well-known, iconic characters from the movies/SW universe)

There are figures that NEED to be fixed/adjusted so that the game is recognizable, and gain popularity and continue to thrive. Once again, this is why campaign needs less attention IMO, because usually, campaign is played in the comforts of your home with close friends and family, whereas, the skirmish game is more competitive and pickup/playable casually in a game store.

These are the ones that need something for skirmish

Imperial figures:

Vader (imagine if Vader had New Luke Jedi Knights rule and could double move +free attack, or cost 15pts)

Weiss ATST these are close, Weiss needs a free Targeting computer. A card LIKE beast tamer would work well for vehicles only.

Not that there aren't others that aren't played, but these are some of the most recognizable and need either further bonuses, or point reductions, to be useful

Mercenary:

Bobba he really needs to be 10 ptsIG as well, they just suck so many points from having a complete arm. Mid they don't want to do that, then get rid of Battle Discipline and keep the abilities

Ig-88 I don't mind IG cost as much, but dump the +2acc and add a blue die to his pool

Dengar really needs a new skirmish card or more abilities if he wants to be taken seriously. He has to do damage to get his abilities off, he can't do enough damage on his own to get his abilities off, he is also too easy to kill for his point cost.

Once again, I'm okay if elite Trandoshans are less effective than regular or whatever, not everything has to be equal, the above three characters (Dengar maybe less so) should be better for their point cost and Boba Fett should almost be too good for his cost.

Rebels:

I'm okay if the regular Sabs don't get as much play as the elite, same with the wookies. I'm okay if no one plays Mak as well and most of the other core figures, should probably be ignored for the most part. Which is why I broke the up into two groups.

Chewie

Han both of these need point adjustments only IMO,their abilities are great and could be adjusted by one word in Han's case for some balancing. Chewie is close, if he cost 12pts, he would be a terror to face in every game. Han @8pts would be a worthwhile investment as is. You could play with his abilities a bird you wanted, but it's not really necessary

Fenn like Kayn, is probably too expensive to be shoe-horned into a trooper list, you're almost always better off buying more troopers, but whatever

Biv andSaska were never designed for skirmish play as near as I can tell. Both are on the cusp of working but anything that causes as much or more damage to yourself than the enemy 5/6 times is terrible. Biv needs some defense or you need to ignore his ability

These weren't really

The points are abortions in campaign as well. Fielding Chewie or Han as an ally is just handing the victory to Imperials. Their "fix" of Murne's 4 point cost reducer is bad in so many ways.

Similarly IG-88, Boba, Vader are so over pointed it's laughable. I take IG-88 if I feel bad for the Rebels and I want them to win, but it's become pretty obvious that I'm handing them the victory. Even the Bantha without it's skirmish support cards isn't exactly good in campaign, but at 3 points under IG-88 it feels like a bargain even if it can't go indoors.

Chewie works well, but not in every mission. In the late game, Heroes can take out 14 points of threat much faster (Fenn can take a Squad of Elite Stormtroopers in a single Activation). Chewies +1 Bonus is also very strong and killing chewbacca takes a lot of actions. If you take the legendary Chewie on a measily 3-threat mission, you deserve the loss. The heroes are to weak at this point in the campaign.

It is not a balance issue, taking the right ally for the right mission is in my opinion quite cool.

Yeah, I think a lot of the heroes are actually balanced better for Campaign than they are for Skirmish - but like you say, you can't being the expensive ones too early.

It's worse taking them late campaign as that threat you give the Imperials benefits from all the class cards while your ally gets nothing making it even easier for all that threat to kill off the ally before it even contributes.

That is very hard with Chewbacca - High Hitpoints, two Defence Dice. Even if they do manage, they have to shot everything at him, which means four heros can do what they want. 14 points of Imperial Units can't take him out. Similar to Vader, you have to commit everything if you want him dead.

I think he only needs fixing in Skirmish, and not because he is weak but because you pay points for so much defense (high hp, two defense dice) in a format where you can't take advantage of it.

How about this exercise: Design a 0-point upgrade card for your favorite overcosted hero or villain to bring them in line with current power levels.

So for Han I'd do something like:

• +1 Block (like Classic Luke)
• Gain 2 MP at the start of your activation (since I don't want to straight overwrite his speed value as that might be wonky within the rules)
• Resourceful : Re-roll of 1 die on both attack and defense (from Lando)

I've been playing houseruled units for both campaign & skirmish since ~May, and I think it's quite balanced

My old post regarding cost changes

Backstories (i.e. how did I arrive at those numbers): 1 , 2

List of all changes I've made (and playtested):

I've been playing houseruled units for both campaign & skirmish since ~May, and I think it's quite balanced

My old post regarding cost changes

Backstories (i.e. how did I arrive at those numbers): 1 , 2

List of all changes I've made (and playtested):

AT-ST 10

Darth Vader 13

Han Solo 8

Chewbacca 12

IG88 8

Weiss 12

RGC 12

Boba Fett 10

Kayn Somos 7

Dengar 6

Sorin 6, add "Imperial General: when defending, roll both black & white defense die and pick which one to apply"

Han should also cost more than 8. I get you're comparing him to Leia, but he is strictly better than her, distracting on a spd 5 model is really strong and 'I make my own luck' is a better version of one of the best cards in the game. 3PO is undercosted, but his spd 3 makes up for it (somewhat), I would price Han at 9 or 10 probably 10, like Luke.

Vader is also to cheap for 13, because he has force choke. 14 points for him and we're talking.

I would be VERY surprised if the next expansion after the Episode VI boxes isn't a Force Awakens box that includes new versions of Han and Chewie. That's what they've done with X-wing, and it makes sense for a multitude of reasons.

• Force Awakens is hot right now, and is a good sell for new players
• It's an even bigger sell if it includes classic characters like Han and Chewie
• Han and Chewie are both in the film and at different stages of life, so a new card with different abilities makes sense, and is long overdue

I mean I really don't see why they wouldn't do this. After a smaller box like Endor or something to follow Jabba's palace, I'm sure it'll be a TFA set.

I've been playing houseruled units for both campaign & skirmish since ~May, and I think it's quite balanced

My old post regarding cost changes

Backstories (i.e. how did I arrive at those numbers): 1 , 2

List of all changes I've made (and playtested):

AT-ST 10

Darth Vader 13

Han Solo 8

Chewbacca 12

IG88 8

Weiss 12

RGC 12

Boba Fett 10

Kayn Somos 7

Dengar 6

Sorin 6, add "Imperial General: when defending, roll both black & white defense die and pick which one to apply"

I like this. It looks very much like they should be costet, however IG-88 might have to cost 9 or 10 pts, because what I am thinking with him, is that he is comparable with the rHK's, and he is better than them, due to durability. But I would like to even consider him over my HK's and now, when I can get HK's and Greedo for the same cost there's no contest, if he was only slightly more expensive than the HK's, I would feel like there were reasons to take IGGY instead.

Han should also cost more than 8. I get you're comparing him to Leia, but he is strictly better than her, distracting on a spd 5 model is really strong and 'I make my own luck' is a better version of one of the best cards in the game. 3PO is undercosted, but his spd 3 makes up for it (somewhat), I would price Han at 9 or 10 probably 10, like Luke.

Vader is also to cheap for 13, because he has force choke. 14 points for him and we're talking.

IG-88: I felt that HKs were about the same strength of IG (2 unit vs. 1, also *kinda* immune to white dice + rerolls), if IG have a shootout against a group of rHKs on the skirmish battlefield I'm not quite sure who'd won. IG's more like a "go in & kill everything", while HKs are more like "I'll snipe you dead from 6 spaces away" (min 4, min 6 if you add " deadeye ")

Han: I've left Han's speed as 4 since I noticed "Fly Solo" would be broken

Vader would be a very good discussion. I mainly run him with " unshakable " from Bespin so that he actually costs 14 but has a way to get rid of harmful conditions (*ahem* stun *ahem*)

Sorin giving stun to the droids around him is really destructive to the Rebels in campaign. If he's on the board you have to stop everything and murder him or you're going to be losing half your actions every turn and losing the game hard. It's hard to price him because with the right setup 8 is too cheap for him, but at the same time 8 is overpriced if you don't have the right setup for him, plus he's squishy. I think 6 with a bonus defensive ability probably makes him way too good.

I really just hope they'll go with making skirmish only versions of characters. There just continues to be a large difference between campaign and skirmish to balance everything.